Resuslt : Bassani X-Pipe with Hi-Flow CompCats
1/18/05, 03:05 PM
#22
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Originally posted by bullittman+January 17, 2005, 5:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bullittman @ January 17, 2005, 5:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ZRX4ME@January 17, 2005, 10:14 PM
I wonder if the only really restrictive thing on these '05's is the 55mm throttle body,which seems kinda small for a 300hp motor.I wonder what the upcoming BBK TB will do??Anybody hear from them??
I wonder if the only really restrictive thing on these '05's is the 55mm throttle body,which seems kinda small for a 300hp motor.I wonder what the upcoming BBK TB will do??Anybody hear from them??
can someone confirm that?Dosen't seem right ,110mm TB?
1/18/05, 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by ZRX4ME+January 18, 2005, 4:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ZRX4ME @ January 18, 2005, 4:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
:scratch: We have a dual 55 MM body. That should be plenty of airflow.
Originally posted by bullittman@January 17, 2005, 5:49 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-ZRX4ME
<!--QuoteBegin-ZRX4ME
@January 17, 2005, 10:14 PM
I wonder if the only really restrictive thing on these '05's is the 55mm throttle body,which seems kinda small for a 300hp motor.I wonder what the upcoming BBK TB will do??Anybody hear from them??
I wonder if the only really restrictive thing on these '05's is the 55mm throttle body,which seems kinda small for a 300hp motor.I wonder what the upcoming BBK TB will do??Anybody hear from them??
:scratch: We have a dual 55 MM body. That should be plenty of airflow.
The surface area of two 55s do not equal the area of a single 110.
1/19/05, 09:21 AM
#26
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Single 75mm = 44.2 cm^2 or 6.85 in^2
Single 80mm = 56.7 cm^2 or 8.80 in^2
Dual 55mm = 47.5 cm^2 or 7.37 in^2
Dual 60mm = 56.5 cm^2 or 8.77 in^2
Keep in mind that for max airflow a larger single tube will flow a bit more are than a dual with the same area (more surface area that is slowing down the air on the dual). So, the single 75 and dual 55 are basically the same and the dual 60 is probably a be less flow than the single 80.
Single 80mm = 56.7 cm^2 or 8.80 in^2
Dual 55mm = 47.5 cm^2 or 7.37 in^2
Dual 60mm = 56.5 cm^2 or 8.77 in^2
Keep in mind that for max airflow a larger single tube will flow a bit more are than a dual with the same area (more surface area that is slowing down the air on the dual). So, the single 75 and dual 55 are basically the same and the dual 60 is probably a be less flow than the single 80.
1/19/05, 09:51 AM
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The area of a 110mm throttle body would be too much for the 4.6L motor. It would be like putting a 1000cfm carb on a 289. There is such a thing as getting too much air into a motor -- it will hurt your power.
I stand corrected.
1/19/05, 11:25 AM
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very interesting stuff-thanks.Spoke to BBK yesterday and they could not give me any power increase numbers.He said they are awaiting production and then it will be for sale.I will wait for some independant tests though.
1/29/05, 08:32 AM
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The March issue of MUSTANG Enthusiast has a good article on X-Pipe Dyno shoot-out.
They tested BBK H-pipe, Bassani X-pipe, BBK X-pipe, Magnaflow X-pipe, Dr. Gas X-pipe and VRS X-pipe. The car used was a 1997Cobra that makes 350 rwhp. It was interesting reading about the design differences.
Greg
They tested BBK H-pipe, Bassani X-pipe, BBK X-pipe, Magnaflow X-pipe, Dr. Gas X-pipe and VRS X-pipe. The car used was a 1997Cobra that makes 350 rwhp. It was interesting reading about the design differences.
Greg
1/31/05, 07:18 AM
#31
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Originally posted by GregS2005GT@January 29, 2005, 9:35 AM
The March issue of MUSTANG Enthusiast has a good article on X-Pipe Dyno shoot-out.
They tested BBK H-pipe, Bassani X-pipe, BBK X-pipe, Magnaflow X-pipe, Dr. Gas X-pipe and VRS X-pipe. The car used was a 1997Cobra that makes 350 rwhp. It was interesting reading about the design differences.
Greg
The March issue of MUSTANG Enthusiast has a good article on X-Pipe Dyno shoot-out.
They tested BBK H-pipe, Bassani X-pipe, BBK X-pipe, Magnaflow X-pipe, Dr. Gas X-pipe and VRS X-pipe. The car used was a 1997Cobra that makes 350 rwhp. It was interesting reading about the design differences.
Greg
That cost about $50.00
2/6/05, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by RRRoamer@January 17, 2005, 8:47 PM
Ok, power101: HP = Torque * rpm / 5252. Please note that hp is a CALCULATED value. There is no such thing as a HP sensor. Even a dyno works by measuring TORQUE and the engine rpm. It then uses the above formula to calculate the hp generated by that much torque being applied at that speed. Pretty simple? No?
On any dyno graph (assuming the hp and torque are using the same scale!), the hp and torque will ALWAYS cross at 5252 rpm. Below 5252 rpm, an engine makes more torque (in ft*lbs) than hp. Above it, it will make more hp than torque. (please see the assumption above!)
So a simple thought is that torque IS what moves the car (again, you can't even MEASURE hp). But it is only making a lot of POWER if it is producing that torque at high rpms. Now, when you are talking about a car accellerating from a light, you are talking about someone leaving at around 2000 rpm (yes, it CAN be a lot higher, but that is not important for this lesson!). He/she will accellerate from 2000 rpm until they hit the rpm that they plan on shifting at. It can be 2500 rpm or redline or anywhere in between. What matters is how much torque is the engine producing from the starting rpm to the shifting rpm.
If you have a peaky engine (makes lots of hp at high rpm, but not much torque), then at 2500 rpm it will not be making much torque. And it will be making even LESS hp. As the rpm increases (and it will be slower initially than a car with lots of low end torque), the torque will rise along with the rpm (at least until peak torque is reached) so the hp will increase rapidly. What determines how long it took to go from the starting rpm to the final shifting rpm (along with a bushel basket of constants such as weight and gear ratios) is how much power is "under the curve". This is kind of hard to explain without a picture or two... Basically, a peaky engine has a triangle (ish) shaped area and a torque engine has square (ish) shaped torque area. The area of a right triangle is 1/2 * base * height, or 1/2 * (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. The area of a square is just base * height or (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. Basically, a real peaky engine will give so much away down low that it can't make it back on the top end.
Now, when you are dragging racing the car, you are shifting at redline (or close to it) AND you are launching at much higher engine speeds (aka: closer to peak torque and peak hp). So that peaky engine is operating much, much closer to where it makes best power. And it stays there as you shift because you have a 5 speed tranny. So that little peaky engine can run faster down a 1/4 mile track than the lower powered, but torquer engine can. When it comes to all out effort, power is power and the more the better! Of course, that torquey engine will get a bit ahead of the peaky engine right off the line, but after that, it's all the peaky engine.
Now, for the street (assuming you are still with me!), that torquey engine just FEELS SO much better! While it's peak hp is lower than the peaky engine, at low engine speeds, it makes MORE hp! So when you punch it while driving around in higher gears, it pulls harder than the peaky engine would.
For a VERY exagerated example, go drive a Volkswagen Gold TDI. That engine makes around 220 ft*lbs or torque (if my memory is correct), but only 90 hp. Right off the line, that car pulls great. It is perfect for around town driving. On the interstate, you will notice it is down on high end power because it's power doesn't keep raising with rpm the way a small gas engine does. Of course, a 90 hp gas engine would feel down right DEAD in the golf because you would have to spin the crap out of it to make any real power. The TDI can make real power at very low engine rpms so it "feels' much stronger than it actually is.
So finally, I just want to say that I would take 20 ft*lbs and -2 hp ANY day! There is NO WAY that did not do GOOD things to the total torque curve.
Ok, power101: HP = Torque * rpm / 5252. Please note that hp is a CALCULATED value. There is no such thing as a HP sensor. Even a dyno works by measuring TORQUE and the engine rpm. It then uses the above formula to calculate the hp generated by that much torque being applied at that speed. Pretty simple? No?
On any dyno graph (assuming the hp and torque are using the same scale!), the hp and torque will ALWAYS cross at 5252 rpm. Below 5252 rpm, an engine makes more torque (in ft*lbs) than hp. Above it, it will make more hp than torque. (please see the assumption above!)
So a simple thought is that torque IS what moves the car (again, you can't even MEASURE hp). But it is only making a lot of POWER if it is producing that torque at high rpms. Now, when you are talking about a car accellerating from a light, you are talking about someone leaving at around 2000 rpm (yes, it CAN be a lot higher, but that is not important for this lesson!). He/she will accellerate from 2000 rpm until they hit the rpm that they plan on shifting at. It can be 2500 rpm or redline or anywhere in between. What matters is how much torque is the engine producing from the starting rpm to the shifting rpm.
If you have a peaky engine (makes lots of hp at high rpm, but not much torque), then at 2500 rpm it will not be making much torque. And it will be making even LESS hp. As the rpm increases (and it will be slower initially than a car with lots of low end torque), the torque will rise along with the rpm (at least until peak torque is reached) so the hp will increase rapidly. What determines how long it took to go from the starting rpm to the final shifting rpm (along with a bushel basket of constants such as weight and gear ratios) is how much power is "under the curve". This is kind of hard to explain without a picture or two... Basically, a peaky engine has a triangle (ish) shaped area and a torque engine has square (ish) shaped torque area. The area of a right triangle is 1/2 * base * height, or 1/2 * (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. The area of a square is just base * height or (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. Basically, a real peaky engine will give so much away down low that it can't make it back on the top end.
Now, when you are dragging racing the car, you are shifting at redline (or close to it) AND you are launching at much higher engine speeds (aka: closer to peak torque and peak hp). So that peaky engine is operating much, much closer to where it makes best power. And it stays there as you shift because you have a 5 speed tranny. So that little peaky engine can run faster down a 1/4 mile track than the lower powered, but torquer engine can. When it comes to all out effort, power is power and the more the better! Of course, that torquey engine will get a bit ahead of the peaky engine right off the line, but after that, it's all the peaky engine.
Now, for the street (assuming you are still with me!), that torquey engine just FEELS SO much better! While it's peak hp is lower than the peaky engine, at low engine speeds, it makes MORE hp! So when you punch it while driving around in higher gears, it pulls harder than the peaky engine would.
For a VERY exagerated example, go drive a Volkswagen Gold TDI. That engine makes around 220 ft*lbs or torque (if my memory is correct), but only 90 hp. Right off the line, that car pulls great. It is perfect for around town driving. On the interstate, you will notice it is down on high end power because it's power doesn't keep raising with rpm the way a small gas engine does. Of course, a 90 hp gas engine would feel down right DEAD in the golf because you would have to spin the crap out of it to make any real power. The TDI can make real power at very low engine rpms so it "feels' much stronger than it actually is.
So finally, I just want to say that I would take 20 ft*lbs and -2 hp ANY day! There is NO WAY that did not do GOOD things to the total torque curve.
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