Livernois Heads
1/18/06, 07:36 PM
#21
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IMO, first off, I, personally, wouldn't have any work by Livernois. That's just me. I've looked into a lot of these companies and the only companies that didn't have any horror stories were VT Engines, Modular Performance, and Boss 330 Racing. I've heard of many companies doing work for people to correct something from Livernois, SHM, etc. These are just things I've heard. Nothing I've experienced first hand...so, take it as you will. I'm not up for any debates at all. This is just what I've learned and my opinion. I'm sure there are some good experiences with these companies....I'm happy for those people.
Second, I will be able to speak more intelligently about the 3V, porting and valvetrain, once my car is dynoed in N/A form. So, I'll refrain from speculating right now. I can tell you this though. Any numbers I post won't be skewed due to trying to sell something. Objective is good!
Second, I will be able to speak more intelligently about the 3V, porting and valvetrain, once my car is dynoed in N/A form. So, I'll refrain from speculating right now. I can tell you this though. Any numbers I post won't be skewed due to trying to sell something. Objective is good!
1/18/06, 07:43 PM
#22
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Originally posted by 169stang@January 18, 2006, 6:39 PM
Any numbers I post won't be skewed due to trying to sell something. Objective is good!
Any numbers I post won't be skewed due to trying to sell something. Objective is good!
My Pony is at 325 RWHP (SAE corrected on a Dynojet) right now and we will see what it goes up to. 
1/18/06, 07:56 PM
#23
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Come to think of it, Justin would be able to provide more accurate #'s. I've taken off my LT's, CAI, Pullies and will be on a different dyno.
1/18/06, 11:44 PM
#24
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Originally posted by Vegasjay@January 18, 2006, 8:46 PM
Same here... My Pony is at 325 RWHP (SAE corrected on a Dynojet) right now and we will see what it goes up to.
Same here...
My Pony is at 325 RWHP (SAE corrected on a Dynojet) right now and we will see what it goes up to.
1/18/06, 11:52 PM
#25
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Originally posted by max2000jp@January 18, 2006, 10:47 PM
Any ETA on a dyno? I will be watching for it!!
Any ETA on a dyno? I will be watching for it!!
LOL... I'm shooting for feb/mar...
1/20/06, 07:20 PM
#26
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Originally posted by 70MACH1OWNER@January 18, 2006, 6:03 PM
Can gains be had from just ported/polish on the heads or does it take both p&p heads and new cams to see the big gains???
Scott
P.S. On a N/A setup like I have. No power adders.
Can gains be had from just ported/polish on the heads or does it take both p&p heads and new cams to see the big gains???
Scott
P.S. On a N/A setup like I have. No power adders.
Now the long answer
P&P on the heads increases the CFM flow rate. Keeping the same cam timing means the total amount of air passed in one intake stroke increases by approximately the ratio of new CFM/ old CFM. Now changing the cam timing while keeping the stock head porting means the rate (CFM) remains the same but you keep that rate going for a longer period of time so again during one intake stroke the total mass of air ingested by the engine has increased. Finally, by doing both the P&P and longer duration cams means not only does the rate increase but the duration that increased rate was flowing also increased, meaning you got a whole lot more with both than either one by them selves.In the past, both worked for me, but changing the cam had more impact. I’m looking forward to see what CompCams comes up with.
The Boss Hog . . . . hoped that helps a little.
1/20/06, 07:56 PM
#27
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Originally posted by Vegasjay@January 18, 2006, 10:07 PM
Here is my take on the head's and cam's (in my humble opinion)...Variable cam timing seems to be a good thing to me. It uses oil pressure to add or pull timing to your motor. It optimizes performance (making small adjustment's when necessary) in your motor and could help you in a detonation scenario, saving your motor.
...
Justin
Here is my take on the head's and cam's (in my humble opinion)...Variable cam timing seems to be a good thing to me. It uses oil pressure to add or pull timing to your motor. It optimizes performance (making small adjustment's when necessary) in your motor and could help you in a detonation scenario, saving your motor.
...
Justin
I would like to venture a slightly different humble opinion
Pulling (or Adding) timing to a motor usually refers to ignition timing (which certainly effects detonation). In the case of our Mustang's VVT, Ford is actually changing the timing of the cam events (IO, IC, EO, EC) in relationship to the crank position.In any 4-stroke engine, the timing of the closing of the intake valve in relationship to Bottom Dead Center (BDC) is the single most important event in determining what rpm peak torque takes place at. By advancing this event to a few degrees before BDC, Ford has significantly increased the low end torque of our engine. This would normally kill high rpm breathing (and horsepower) but with VVT, the closing of the intake valve is delayed (as rpm's increase) until it closes considerably after BDC.
Because of this changing of event timing, the manufacture of an aftermarket cam has got a lot of engineering to do to get it to work correctly. If they know what they are doing, they can use it to their advantage.
The Boss Hog . . . . waiting for CompCams
1/20/06, 08:33 PM
#28
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Originally posted by The Boss Hog@January 20, 2006, 6:59 PM
Justin,
I would like to venture a slightly different humble opinion Pulling (or Adding) timing to a motor usually refers to ignition timing (which certainly effects detonation). In the case of our Mustang's VVT, Ford is actually changing the timing of the cam events (IO, IC, EO, EC) in relationship to the crank position.
In any 4-stroke engine, the timing of the closing of the intake valve in relationship to Bottom Dead Center (BDC) is the single most important event in determining what rpm peak torque takes place at. By advancing this event to a few degrees before BDC, Ford has significantly increased the low end torque of our engine. This would normally kill high rpm breathing (and horsepower) but with VVT, the closing of the intake valve is delayed (as rpm's increase) until it closes considerably after BDC.
Because of this changing of event timing, the manufacture of an aftermarket cam has got a lot of engineering to do to get it to work correctly. If they know what they are doing, they can use it to their advantage.
The Boss Hog . . . . waiting for CompCams
Justin,
I would like to venture a slightly different humble opinion
Pulling (or Adding) timing to a motor usually refers to ignition timing (which certainly effects detonation). In the case of our Mustang's VVT, Ford is actually changing the timing of the cam events (IO, IC, EO, EC) in relationship to the crank position.In any 4-stroke engine, the timing of the closing of the intake valve in relationship to Bottom Dead Center (BDC) is the single most important event in determining what rpm peak torque takes place at. By advancing this event to a few degrees before BDC, Ford has significantly increased the low end torque of our engine. This would normally kill high rpm breathing (and horsepower) but with VVT, the closing of the intake valve is delayed (as rpm's increase) until it closes considerably after BDC.
Because of this changing of event timing, the manufacture of an aftermarket cam has got a lot of engineering to do to get it to work correctly. If they know what they are doing, they can use it to their advantage.
The Boss Hog . . . . waiting for CompCams
Thanks for the clarification on cam timing.
I had a rough idea how it works, your explanation clears it up for me. I am dragging my heels a little on the heads because Al (Boss 330 Racing) is expecting some cams from Comp or Crower very soon. I want to run one of the two in my motor, I want a fairly aggressive cam with that sweet lopey idle. I also hope they retain the VCT...The way I understand it, Blow by Racing at one point ditched the VCT because they couldn't figure it out (among a lot of other things
) I'm sure Comp will get it right...
1/21/06, 01:13 AM
#29
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Al has a built N/A 3V block in his shop that he's going to finish up once I pick up my motor. I will be able to get some numbers on a fully built 3V before long. I believe the hang up on that block is the cams. Like Justin said, he's waiting on the cams to arive.
1/21/06, 01:59 AM
#30
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I would imagine that waiting is a good thing in regard to the cams. I figured it would take a good while before companies like Crane, Crower, Comp...etc would have something out for these motors. They're not likely to "wing" it, like others have done.
1/23/06, 08:04 AM
#32
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Variable cam timing seems to be a good thing to me. It uses oil pressure to add or pull timing to your motor
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
1/23/06, 08:12 AM
#33
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Variable Cam Timing:
The Cams on the 3V 5.4 and 4.6 engines start at full advance and as the RPMs go up the computer retards the cam timing to allow the heads to breath better at higher RPMs producing a very broad torque curve.
Charge Motion Plates:
The second intake valve is blocked by the charge motion plates until a certain RPM or event (such as WOT). The plates are located between the intake manifold and the intake opening in the heads, they are not part of the VCT system.
The Cams on the 3V 5.4 and 4.6 engines start at full advance and as the RPMs go up the computer retards the cam timing to allow the heads to breath better at higher RPMs producing a very broad torque curve.
Charge Motion Plates:
The second intake valve is blocked by the charge motion plates until a certain RPM or event (such as WOT). The plates are located between the intake manifold and the intake opening in the heads, they are not part of the VCT system.
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