GT Performance Mods 2005+ Mustang GT Performance and Technical Information

Hmmm did we get short changed

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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 09:30 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 70MACH1OWNER
Well first off the 4.6 engine has been around since 1996 in a Mustang and 1991 in a Lincoln. It was introduced in both a 2 valve and 4 valve version in the Cobra in 1996. It has only been around in the 3 valve version since 2005. So it is a natural progression. I personally believe you can thank General Motors and Chrysler the development of the 5.0 Coyote. With the Camaro and Challenger having motor options over 400 HP I don't think Ford had much choice if they wanted to keep market share. I love Ford products but they are not giving the 2011 Mustang this more costly engine out of the goodness of the hearts. That I'm sure of.
Not quite, the 3V first debuted in 2002 in Australia for the 5.4L 3V V8s. So basically our 3V engines have been around for about 8+ years already. It took Ford 6 years to figure out how to revise the heads to use 1 piece spark plugs.

Ford skipped 12 months of prototype testing for the 5.0L DOHC V8, and given Ford's record for producing problematic first year releases, the lack of prototype testing is a concern of mine. Modeling and simulation can smooth out the design but manufacturing/integration bugs have to be worked out in real time.

-1991.5 Lincoln Town Car was the first to receive the 4.6L SOHC 2V V8 (early 1991 TC's still used a MPFI 5.0L OHV V8)
-1996 Ford Mustang was the first Mustang to get the 4.6L SOHC 2V V8 - it also marked the first year the 2V modular engines received a full composite intake manifold, which would later be the focus of a class action lawsuit and caused Ford to release a new design with an aluminum forward coolant passage starting MY 2002
-1999 Ford Mustang was the first to receive the Performance Improved 4.6L SOHC 2V V8
-2002 Ford Falcon receives a 5.4L SOHC 3V V8
-2004 Ford F-150 gets the 5.4L SOHC 3V V8
-2005 S197 Mustang GT debuts with the 4.6L SOHC 3V V8
-2008.5 S197 Mustang GT features revised cylinder heads with 1 piece spark plugs
-2010.5 SVT Raptor supposed to get new Boss 6.2L OHC V8
-2011 Mustang GT first to get new Coyote 5.0L DOHC V8

Last edited by metroplex; Feb 8, 2010 at 09:46 AM.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 09:39 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by traffic142
I started this thread and have read all the progress threads and happy with what i bought bit. What I was driving at was, while the 4.6 has been around for a while (15 years). It has not really been the same 4.6 as far as design. We have the 2v, the PI heads, the 4V heads, now the 3V heads. Pretty much the 302 has been the same since it was redone in the 80's. My only concern is the lack of new products and developement of aftermarket stuff for this engine type (4.6L 3V). Ford had a 300hp 4.6 used in the Mach 1 in the 03/04 engines (32 V) motor. That would have worked and then used the new 302 when it was developed. That would have saved some R & D on the 3v motor, but that is why I think the 3V was a needed step in the movement to the new 302?
I see your point, but if you look around there's a wealth of aftermarket support for 3v specific engines.

Although that's a bit of a misnomer since all the engines share the same basic architecture. There's headwork that can be done, cams, intakes are out. full exhaust, tuning, forced induction. Anything there is for the 2v and 4v variants of this engine, there also is for the 3v.

Also keep in mind that new products don't completely dictate what the aftermarket produces. Just because the new 5.0 is coming out doesn't mean the aftermarket will forget about the 4.6 motors (regardless of what heads it has on it).
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 09:42 AM
  #43  
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AFAIK, the new Coyote has nothing to do with the modular engines. It was a new design from the ground up. Even the oil filter is different.

The first thing Coyote owners will do is probably try to swap out the headers, intake manifold, heads, and camshafts for better aftermarket pieces.

Last edited by metroplex; Feb 8, 2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 12:44 PM
  #44  
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That is what free market capitalism is all about! Stuff the "Green Police"
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 01:29 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by metroplex
Not quite, the 3V first debuted in 2002 in Australia for the 5.4L 3V V8s. So basically our 3V engines have been around for about 8+ years already. It took Ford 6 years to figure out how to revise the heads to use 1 piece spark plugs.
That brings up a question I've had... most overhead cam engines design the cam lobe to be directly over the valve stems don't they? (typically using cup style cam followers - at least that's been my mechanical experience on 4V DOHC 4cyl's)

However, the 3V SOHC uses Roller Followers to reach both the intake & exhaust valve stems with a single cam. Pretty inventive! It appears to me that this 'new' method proved itself on the 3V (up to 6500 rpm), and therefore Ford continued the Roller Follower design on the new 5.0 (now up to 7000 rpm). This allowed some flexibility in DOHC cam placement to allow an improved head design with better flow characteristics.

If my train of thought is correct, the 3V proved itself in the S197 and without that, the Roller Follower design (along with VCT) may not have been rolled out on the new 5.0.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 01:40 PM
  #46  
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I DON'T feel short-changed AT ALL!! I got my car early in 2006, was one of the 1st in the area with stripes (let alone painted stripes) and I have made friends for life since I've owned my car. I have had the time of my life with it and even met the love of my life (my girlfriend) from owning my car (she has a 2007 GT/CS and we met at a local Mustang show in 2008). If I didn't have my car my life would be TOTALLY different and NOT for the good!! I love my car!!! I can ALWAYS make it faster.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 01:46 PM
  #47  
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As new models come and go, technology improves. I'm sure the 2014 Mustang will be so much better than my (when i get to order it) 2011 V-6.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 04:06 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by cdynaco
That brings up a question I've had... most overhead cam engines design the cam lobe to be directly over the valve stems don't they? (typically using cup style cam followers - at least that's been my mechanical experience on 4V DOHC 4cyl's)

However, the 3V SOHC uses Roller Followers to reach both the intake & exhaust valve stems with a single cam. Pretty inventive! It appears to me that this 'new' method proved itself on the 3V (up to 6500 rpm), and therefore Ford continued the Roller Follower design on the new 5.0 (now up to 7000 rpm). This allowed some flexibility in DOHC cam placement to allow an improved head design with better flow characteristics.

If my train of thought is correct, the 3V proved itself in the S197 and without that, the Roller Follower design (along with VCT) may not have been rolled out on the new 5.0.
The Ford modular 2V engines used since 1991 also used roller followers. The VCT is nothing more than Ford's version of VTEC, variable valve timing, and other systems already used by the Japanese.

As a matter of fact, one of the first aftermarket mods for cars in the world was developed by a Japanese guy. In the past few decades, just leave it to a crazy Japanese motorcycle guy to figure out a new way of making more power and it will eventually find its way into cars.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 04:21 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by metroplex
The Ford modular 2V engines used since 1991 also used roller followers. The VCT is nothing more than Ford's version of VTEC, variable valve timing, and other systems already used by the Japanese.

As a matter of fact, one of the first aftermarket mods for cars in the world was developed by a Japanese guy. In the past few decades, just leave it to a crazy Japanese motorcycle guy to figure out a new way of making more power and it will eventually find its way into cars.
Thanx. So who did the first SOHC 3V?
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 04:31 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by cdynaco
Thanx. So who did the first SOHC 3V?
Probably Bugatti in 1922 according to this entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-valve

However, Nissan and Honda also had some products before the 2002 Ford 5.4L 3V V8

I recall Ford going the 3V route to cut costs from the 4V design (adding 2 additional camshafts). The modular engine should have been replaced about 5-6 years ago. The 3V came way too late in the game and would have been great additions to Ford's portfolio in 1999 instead of the PI 4.6/5.4 2V.

Ford has never been on the cutting edge of technology with a few exceptions, like the HID headlights on the Mark VIII.
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Old Feb 8, 2010 | 08:55 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by metroplex
Probably Bugatti in 1922 according to this entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-valve

However, Nissan and Honda also had some products before the 2002 Ford 5.4L 3V V8

I recall Ford going the 3V route to cut costs from the 4V design (adding 2 additional camshafts). The modular engine should have been replaced about 5-6 years ago. The 3V came way too late in the game and would have been great additions to Ford's portfolio in 1999 instead of the PI 4.6/5.4 2V.

Ford has never been on the cutting edge of technology with a few exceptions, like the HID headlights on the Mark VIII.
Honda had a 12-valve SOHC 1.6L engine back in 1976.
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Old Feb 10, 2010 | 10:33 AM
  #52  
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I certainly don't regret my 2008 GT. Sure a 5.0 and 400hp sounds great, but when you buy a Mustang, you buy a piece of history and now I've got a little bit of 2008 locked away.
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