Well, for some of us, poor boy mods is all we can afford!! With 4 kids of my own, plus one of my sons friends living with us and my 2 other stang projects, my budget is actually less than zero for this car!! I'm probably gonna sell the '66 in the spring, so I can get the '84 goin and some real mods for the '07!! So the free or, at least, only costing me the price of the cheap part, mod works for me!! I'm already searching for junkyard parts or takeoffs for the '07!! (Just look at how many Terminators have already expired, heck, even a couple of Ford GT's, too!!) I guess that I'm just too old skool for these new-fangled cars!!!LOL!! I'm not even 40, yet!! Btw, I do plan on getting a set of lowering springs for my stang, just haven't decided yet on which set I want!! I do like the raked look, I just wanted the stock rear height (and gap!!) to be less!! I'll probably get the rake I'm looking for with 295/45/18's when the time comes!!

 

Not seeing more info/discussion on trimming the bumpstops is the one thing that amazes me in all the lowering threads I've read so far.

Do most people just leave them the stock length? If they do it's no wonder they have ruff(er) rides.

 

Sandyman - curious how do the Roush springs ride compared to the stock springs on your '06? I didn't even notice the diff. in ride on my '05 when I cut a coil off the rear springs. I've always been on the fence about aftermarket springs as I would really like to "tighten" up the handling a bit - but not at a hugh expense in ride quality. For instance, I rented the Shelbly GT-H last August and it rode really rough on the Phoenix freeways.....not thinking I would want my Stang riding that rough....are the Roush any better as far as ride quality?

thx

 

Another spring cut thread -

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showth...ht=cut+springs

 

I think most of us with aftermarket springs trim the top nub off of them. I didn't when I was running the cut rear springs, but only because it was only lowered by about 1/2" or so. I never had an issue with hitting the bumpstops. Once I put the Eibachs in, I trimmed it.

 

here's another method.... compress your springs and heat them up with a blow torch until red hot. Now hose them down with cold water. This will keep those small coils at the ends, and give you the shorter spring that you are looking for. (not legal... go figger)

 

Well everyone has to do or be limited by what they can afford, me included. The poor boy approach to lowering is certainly an affordable route, and gives one the instant gratification of the look.

I apologize if this sounds too brutal or rude, but those who tout that stock coil cut is just as good as a engineered setup, are really fooling themselves or really not as capable high performance drivers as they think they might be.

If one is not that hard of a driver (and I suspect most are not, though they might think they are) and they slow down for the bumps they see coming or not really going hard thru the corners, most likely they are keeping it off the bump stops (most of the time). If one is the type that likes doing open track or spirited country lane driving, and they are able (skilled and confident enough) to push the car to or near its limits, most race courses and roads usually have some rough sections where the suspension will be put to the test. Straight line travel hitting the bump stop(s) is not too bad, except it does not feel or sound very good. High speed cornering at or near the limit and hitting the bump stop (either end of the car) really up sets the balance or set of the car in the turn and can result in some undesirable effect on the cornering of the car (and the ability to keep it stuck on the road surface).

Cutting down the stops allows the suspension a little more movement (grace), however probably not enough help compared to what an engineered high rate spring could offer to slow down or stop the bump motion when you encounter one of those nasty sharp bumps.

Going with the higher rate springs also demands more shock control.

Mentioned elsewhere are all the other factors that change and need correcting or compensating to do the job right when you decided to go for that lowered look. Like they say, nothing is easy, but it is more rewarding when decide or can afford to do the job right.

 

Amen, hot rodders have been doing this type of mod for decades!

I bought a set of stock rear springs on eBay for very little about 15 months ago and cut exactly one coil off the top - with a cutoff wheel in my power drill. That levels the car very nicely. I did add one little twist though. I added an early Mustang (65-73)coil spring insulator to the top - it was a tough fit but I got them on. These rubber pieces help isolate the spring and allow the spring to better locate itself on the upper mount.

I've not noticed any issues at all over that time and like the level look.

 

Doesnt lowering the rear also change the pinion angle.

Requiring LCA's and UCA's and Adj. panhard.

Just ask'in.

 

It might not "require" a pinion angle adjustment. But I would check it. I think Ford calls fro -3 to -5. Definitely nothing positive. A small drop like .5" to 1.0" might not set it off too much, but it would be worth checking with a cheap angle finder/magnetic protractor. The digital ones are pretty nice but cost more money.

But yeah, lowering the car might entail adding a whole bunch of other parts.

Let see, it could throw the pinion angle off, so how about some adjustable UCAs.

And now the rear tires and axle aren't centered left to right, so an adjustable panhard bar.

And the the instant center is off and the car squats real bad under accleration, so some anti squat/relocation brackets are in order.

Might as well get some adjustable LCA to center the tires front to back in the wheel well and call it a day.

Oh yeah, and get some Energy Suspension Formula 5 Prelube to put on the bushings to keep them from squeaking, and a tool to check the pinion angle. And a an alignment check. Heck, might as well get some more shocks.

Now what are we going to do with the front?...

All this for a one inch drop in the rear. Makes me want to leave it stock height. Of course, you could need none of this for just a little .5"-1" drop. But it might be worth checking the measurements.

 

+1 for Cutting!!

Despite some of the soapbox talk I've seen in this thread, I followed the directions and cut 1 coil off the front's and 1/2 coil off the rears and dropped it about 3/4" all the way around, but I wanted to keep the forward rake so it really looks like it came from the factory this way (which it shoud have). Been over a year now, and no problems, not eben going over bad bumps (except for scraping of course). I had to go to the dealer here (Sheehy in Alexandria, VA...very good) and they realigned it for me for $500 to within near perfect tolerances. Since then I have kept my panhard bar oiled and swapped winter tires twice without any ill effect.

I have to agree with the post that said most of us are not high performance drivers..and so what? High performance drivers put thousands of dollars into all kinds of mods and run the car to its limits (and grenade a few engines BTW). Most of us owners are happy to look good riding in a hot car.

-Darth

 

Well put, Darth -

And for the soap boxers, what happens to the suspension geometry when two large adults are in the car? And throw in 50lbs in the trunk.

Sure the car is designed to sit at a certain level - unloaded. It was also designed to function fully loaded, plus a safety factor.

As for bump stops - I have to wonder how hard do you have to drive to spend time on the bump stops? I would think that if you are using the car as a daily driver, the rear would almost never see the bump stops. Driving on a road course is certainly a different story, but really, how many people run their cars like that?

(Of course, no offense meant toward anyone soap boxing, stating fact, opinion, etc.)

 

I think soap boxing is taking what I am passing on out of context. I am not preaching that the world is going to end or your $26k to $30k plus investment is going go out of control because you can't afford or don't want to spend $200 - $300 hundred bucks for a engineered part. I'm just passing on some knowledge, insight and experience for those who might be eager to know more or understand what is going on with the suspension when its modified. What one does or does not do with it is to their benefit or loss. What someone does with or to their car is their business and decision. Some are more interested than looking like they are Parnelli Jones material. Those with a thirst for knowledge then have the opportunity to make an informed decision and understand the consequences and how to mitigate them. If you don't have a thirst for knowledge, this message is not for you.

 

You paid $500 for a wheel alignment? WTF!!! You could've bought new springs and got the wheels aligned for way less than that. Heck for a few hundred more you could've bought new struts.

 

Yeah, and I could have gotten new LCAs, UCAs, relocation brackets, shocks, sway bars ect for a grand total of over $1500. The springs cost me $40, did the labor myself, and the $500 for a 4-wheel realignment was well spent. I got the camber, pinon, and forward control arms and everything set to better than factory tolerances front and rear. Believe me I didn't want to spend that much, but it took a few man-hours at the shop to get the geometry correct. Frankly, there are only a few people on these boards who could do all of that themselves and get everything back in order. For me, I went as far as I could on my own efforts (Thanks to this forum and some good directions) and needless to say my wheels were going in 4 directions when it was done. But for $500 almost a year ago, it's been sweet as pie ever since!! I love the way it rides, and since I added the strut tower brace, it moves like a whole new car!!

Darth

 

Well I'm glad you love your car. I'm just saying you overpaid big time for a wheel alignment. A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

Not trying to soapbox here, but, it has been said on this esteemed board that once you've cut the said coil, since you have effectively reduced its overall length but haven't changed its rate, it becomes a higher rate coil. Now, I don't remember which thread it was in, or who said it, but it did make sense to me at the time. And b/c I'm currently living in the wonderful state of Michigan with its perfect roads (NOT!!), having stiffer springs sure makes my daily commute fun!!! Now, I'm not a "perfessional" driver of any kind, but I've been known to push my cars (and trucks!) pretty close to the limit and my plan is to do even more suspension work to my cars, as I can afford it. But, keep in mind, it is my daily driver, too, so, given the constant state of disrepair of the roads I have to drive on, I do need something thats not outrageously stiff. That being said, I am looking at Steeda's stuff or maybe BMR's, unless Kenny Brown can get well and start building stuff again!!!

 

I would be very interested to know how they "aligned" the rear suspension.

There are no factory alignment adjustments (or specs) in the rear. No camber, no caster, no thrust angle, no toe, no tracking, not even pinion angle. What did they change and how????

4 wheel alignments are for cars with independent rear suspensions that have adjusters....or maybe I've missed something????

 

When you lower the car the geometry changes for everything, even the rear wheels. They did all the axis adjusting on the panhard bar to keep it in line with the fronts. I tried to eyeball it and used the dead weight method, but still wasn't able to get it right.

 

When you cut the coil, the overall rate of the spring does change. For a progressive rate spring its difficult to estimate because its nonlinear. For a strictly linear (all coils the same diameter and wire size) spring its fairly easy to estimate the effect. If the linear spring starts out with 12 complete coils and one is cut, the rate will change by the ratio of 12/11 = 1.09 or 9% increase. That would only be a very rough way to estimate for a progressive rate spring (like ours).

Once you lower the car you have less bump travel. In the example, the 9% increase in rate helps some, but its not enough to compensate for the reduced bump travel. This car starts out with about 3" of bump travel. Lower the car 1" and now you only have 2". If you check out the spec's you will find that the engineered spring spec's (Steeda et al) are significantly more than 9% increase in rate (like 25% to 35% more).

If its any consolation, TEXAS roads are not all that smooth either.