Comparison of the GMS and C&L CAI's with detailed info...
Bullitt Member
Joined: October 13, 2004
Posts: 437
Likes: 1
Again, without knowing exactly what the modification is doing that's hard to say. It would take someone with a in depth knowledge of electronics and some test equiptment to see.
In the end it seems that it works. How well? We'll have to see what Doug reports back with.
Remember that were talking the difference between a unit costing $359.99 vs a combo price of $749.00. Should the buyer get a lot more features for $749, I sure would hope so.
In the end it seems that it works. How well? We'll have to see what Doug reports back with.
Remember that were talking the difference between a unit costing $359.99 vs a combo price of $749.00. Should the buyer get a lot more features for $749, I sure would hope so.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: October 13, 2004
Posts: 985
Likes: 6
OK, lets just compare out peak hp and tq numbers with our mods. I only have the GMS CAI and 2.5" exhaust. You have the C&L CAI, the beloved Bama chips 91 race tune, Corsa X and Corsa mufflers. The bottom line is we have basically the same peak hp and tq with our current set ups. I realize these are not side by side dyno numbers but there is no difference in our peak hp and tq numbers. Look at the other mustang forums and you will see others with similiar hp and tq numbers with the GMS CAI.
I know I would be bummed if I spent an extra $300 for a tune and found it out it provided no additional hp or tq benefit over a product like the GMS CAI without a tune and only needed 87 octane fuel. I know if I had the C&L and a tune I would probably be drinking the same kool-aid but the fact remains that the GMS CAI does work well and probably as well as other CAI's with the mandatory tune.
Doug, please do the dyno comparison with the GMS CAI and the C&L with the 87 tune and lets put thing to rest. In fact it might be interesting to do the comparison to the GMS with the 87, 91 and 93 just for fun.
I know I would be bummed if I spent an extra $300 for a tune and found it out it provided no additional hp or tq benefit over a product like the GMS CAI without a tune and only needed 87 octane fuel. I know if I had the C&L and a tune I would probably be drinking the same kool-aid but the fact remains that the GMS CAI does work well and probably as well as other CAI's with the mandatory tune.
Doug, please do the dyno comparison with the GMS CAI and the C&L with the 87 tune and lets put thing to rest. In fact it might be interesting to do the comparison to the GMS with the 87, 91 and 93 just for fun.
I definitely want to know if the GMS unit works within safe parameters as far as a/f ratios because I'm one of those people that cannot afford to go the tune route initially. It might be another year or so before I could and at that point I could just throw in the stock MAF and then add a tune.
It's not that I don't want a tune although there is the warranty aspect, etc. The throttle response is OK, the only problem I have is when downshifting the throttle seems disconnected so maybe a tune is the only answer but again, if I cannot squeeze that in the budget yet, shouldn't I have an alternative like the GMS w/no tune right?
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,517
From: Carnegie, PA
I agree, why the need for a mystery MAF sensor if the jumper harness is adjusting for the proper MAF signal to send back to the ECM keeping the A/F within Ford specs 
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,517
From: Carnegie, PA
I said basically the same thing earlier in this thread, dyno the same car with the GMS CAI vs C&L with an 87 tune.
I definitely want to know if the GMS unit works within safe parameters as far as a/f ratios because I'm one of those people that cannot afford to go the tune route initially. It might be another year or so before I could and at that point I could just throw in the stock MAF and then add a tune.
It's not that I don't want a tune although there is the warranty aspect, etc. The throttle response is OK, the only problem I have is when downshifting the throttle seems disconnected so maybe a tune is the only answer but again, if I cannot squeeze that in the budget yet, shouldn't I have an alternative like the GMS w/no tune right?
I definitely want to know if the GMS unit works within safe parameters as far as a/f ratios because I'm one of those people that cannot afford to go the tune route initially. It might be another year or so before I could and at that point I could just throw in the stock MAF and then add a tune.
It's not that I don't want a tune although there is the warranty aspect, etc. The throttle response is OK, the only problem I have is when downshifting the throttle seems disconnected so maybe a tune is the only answer but again, if I cannot squeeze that in the budget yet, shouldn't I have an alternative like the GMS w/no tune right?
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; Sep 17, 2023 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Revised Text
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
I can understand your concern for not wanting a tune because of your budget ?? I'm also on a tight budget as well, and had to purchase my mods one at a time..I first purchased my X-Cal II and used it with my stock airbox for two months and then later purchased my cold air intake..what my concern along with the others is this ? we still do not know what the purpose of this re-calibrated sensor does and unless you have your vehicle dyno tested ? you really don't know what your A/F ratio is. just because you may not encounter a check engine light or cel code ? doesn't mean your A/F is within safe limits..I'd at least would want to know if my A/F is running too lean or too rich, for my own piece of mind..
If you can't afford a tuner and dyno run you shouldn't play with your car as you might just blow it up.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,517
From: Carnegie, PA
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,517
From: Carnegie, PA
This is why a dyno is a MUST when adding a CAI and/or tune. My original race tune was running 13.6 A/F, which is too lean. No CEL. I sent my dyno sheet to Doug and he sent me a revised tune, which now has the car at 12.5 A/F where it should be.
If you can't afford a tuner and dyno run you shouldn't play with your car as you might just blow it up.
If you can't afford a tuner and dyno run you shouldn't play with your car as you might just blow it up.
Member
Joined: August 2, 2006
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If I found out that the GMS kit was f***ing up my a/f ratio (or anything else on my car) it would come off. Fortunately though, nothing (as of yet) indicates that this thing is not doing what it's supposed to do.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; Sep 17, 2023 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Revised Text
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
But even with canned tunes you don't really know what your getting unless you get it on a dyno, no?
I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If I found out that the GMS kit was f***ing up my a/f ratio (or anything else on my car) it would come off. Fortunately though, nothing (as of yet) indicates that this thing is not doing what it's supposed to do.
I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If I found out that the GMS kit was f***ing up my a/f ratio (or anything else on my car) it would come off. Fortunately though, nothing (as of yet) indicates that this thing is not doing what it's supposed to do.
You shouldn't just "trust Granatelli".
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,517
From: Carnegie, PA
So even with canned tunes you don't really know what your getting unless you get it on a dyno, no?
I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If I found out that the GMS kit was f***ing up my a/f ratio (or anything else on my car) it would come off. Fortunately though, nothing (as of yet) indicates that this thing is not doing what it's supposed to do.
I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you. If I found out that the GMS kit was f***ing up my a/f ratio (or anything else on my car) it would come off. Fortunately though, nothing (as of yet) indicates that this thing is not doing what it's supposed to do.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; Sep 17, 2023 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Revised Text
Mach 1 Member
Joined: July 25, 2006
Posts: 668
Likes: 1
There are some dyno sheets on Granetelli's website. But nothing gives the A/F ratios. Same car used on some of these?
Does anyone want to guess on which side of the fence the GMS CAI will fall ahead of Doug's pending dyno and a/f measurements? I'm guessing it will be a bit lean at WOT and Doug's GMS tune will correct it.
Does anyone want to guess on which side of the fence the GMS CAI will fall ahead of Doug's pending dyno and a/f measurements? I'm guessing it will be a bit lean at WOT and Doug's GMS tune will correct it.
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
There are some dyno sheets on Granetelli's website. But nothing gives the A/F ratios. Same car used on some of these?
Does anyone want to guess on which side of the fence the GMS CAI will fall ahead of Doug's pending dyno and a/f measurements? I'm guessing it will be a bit lean at WOT and Doug's GMS tune will correct it.
Does anyone want to guess on which side of the fence the GMS CAI will fall ahead of Doug's pending dyno and a/f measurements? I'm guessing it will be a bit lean at WOT and Doug's GMS tune will correct it.
Cobra Member
Joined: August 28, 2006
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
I have the GMS w/MAF and had it dyno'd after installing it. My Air/Fuel ratio was dead on at 12.5 using thier MAF. I also dyno'd 281 rwhp with the garage air temp being 97F. I have had no codes thrown or any issues with my CAI.
-danny
-danny
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: July 1, 2006
Posts: 2,911
Likes: 1
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 27, 2006
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Banned
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
Cobra R Member
Joined: November 12, 2004
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 0
No actually it will be dougs GMS tune, he is coming to st. louis and will be doing custom tunes, and one of them will by my gms cai, so he should have some updated tunes specifically for the gms after the 12th which is my dyno day. Cant wait to see what tweaking can be done. But for now a temp tune is the C&L.