05stangkc

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=74363
ORIGINAL TOPIC

Doug Thanks for the Quick work! That is a Lot of Good Info!

I have Some Questions which I pretty much know the Answers to but thought I would ask for the Benefit of the Forum Members.

Did you Try the Intake with the Resonator Removed? If not do you think any further Gains would be realized or would it Possably be a Decrease in Performance. I know when I had my 05 Auto GT with the Resonator on the Intake,I tried a Stick Intake which did not have the resonator and it seemed to make the Car Feel Soggy around town but felt like it had more top end power.

Does That Factory Ford Dry Filter Look Like a Good Alternative by itself for any exisiting Cai's out there? Advantages? Disadvantages?

Also the Dyno Numbers are Great but won't the Better Airbox Seal Show some Advantages on the Open Road vs an Unsealed CAi's Due to Heat soak and Ram Air? And These Futher Gains won't show on a Stationary Dyno Correct?

Thanks Again!

KC

05stangkc

I can Offer Just The Bare Airbox. As Far as Which Other Cai's Will Adapt Easily and Which Will Require Extensive Research that Remains to Be Seen.


KC

ski

It's my understanding that a resonator's primary function is noise reduction.
WRT the different feeling of your car's performance after replacing the stock intake, it's possible that the new intake changed the engine's A/F ratio at WOT, especially if you did not install a new tune with the new intake.

No answer to your 2nd question, but I'm guessing that all of the CAI suppliers will say the Ford filter is not a good match with their products(Cha-Ching!).

IMHO, a good test of how well different CAI seals work would be to data log the IAT(intake air temperature) under the same conditions(ambient temperature, etc.) with the engine fully warmed up and idling on a stationary car with the hood closed. That's when the underhood hot air demon rears its ugly head.

65sohc

I think all CAI-equipped engines heat soak and have elevated IAT when the car is stationary because the throttle is closed and there is very little airflow through the CAI. I had a 94 Supra on which I mounted the air filter in the bumper, completely outside the engine compartment, and IAT still rose to about 125 degrees at a standstill. I noticed the same thing on my Mustang. The Demolet shield is fairly crude-looking and probably doesn't seal against the hood very well, but as soon as the car starts moving IAT falls to near ambient. As far as ram air, where is the Bullitt airbox picking up air from? Is it from a different location than the regular GT? I have looked and looked on my car and I can't find any sort of direct path whatsoever.

Knight

like 65sohc said, without some type of cooling IE airflow. its impossible not to have heat soak.

05stangkc

The Bullitt Airbox pulls the Air From the Leading Edge of the Hood. The Inlet sits Between the Upper Sight Shield and Directly on top of the Headlight. It Tucks in Tight.

KC

fixmejesus

The new bullitt can sense the octane and adjust accordingly. Is this frpp cai available with that tune from ford that will work with a non bullitt?

07 GT/CS

Any chance of running this on an auto, or is it strictly for manuals?

theedge67

Why would manual vs. auto be any different? It should work the same on either.

c25sailor

Since this is a new thread, I've been trying to find out about the 87/91 issue with the FRPP (Steeda) 90MM CAK -- based upon the owners' manual it seems that this feature may be unique to the Bullitt -- or it isn't but the manual doesn't contemplate the FRPP CAK. I'm waiting for Ford Racing tech people to get back in Jan 3 so that someone can try to authoritatively answer this question. In the meantime, If this shield works with the FRPP CAI -- KC -- pm me for an order (if the price is anyway reasonable).

07 GT/CS

I think the tune might be different since the Bullitt only comes in manual. I'd like to put this on my auto.

theedge67

You could always get a tune from another tuner like Doug, who is already experimenting with the intake. He will undoubtedly offer a tune for the intake soon for both manual or auto cars.

302svt

I would be interested if someone could adapt it to a C&L Racer intake and make it look good.

65sohc

The intake tube itself has some fairly tight bends in it, especially the one after the MAF sensor. I'll bet that is where it is losing power compared with a typical aftermarket CAI such as the C&L.

metroplex

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-...eading/cfm.htm

Our engines have a displacement of 281 cubic inches, and the factory revlimiter is set at 6250 RPM. Doing the math, we get approximately 508 cfm of air flow required by that engine at 6250 RPM.

Of course, there are going to be some frictional losses in the tubing, air filter, air flow path into the engine, etc... That is why when you open up the air intake to something that can handle 800-900 cfm, you are only grabbing an extra 10-12 hp increase that you probably can't even detect on the street.

Ford obviously spent an enormous amount of engineering manhours to develop that cold-air intake seal. The press release mentioned extensive "modifications to the hoodliner". I don't doubt it because the biggest drawback to running one of these "CAI" kits is the hot air intake through leaky shields and the ambient temperature around the engine.

70MACH1OWNER

Charlie,
You need to spend some of your hard earned money on a CAI and tuner. Your butt would be a happy camper!!! You can feel the difference!
Scott

ski

Real world test results(Read: dyno) always outweigh theory and equations.

Again, the "10-12 hp increase" for the C&L CAI can be 18-20 hp, since dyno results are +/-. But even an extra 10-12 hp can very likely be the deciding factor in determining who wins a race.

IAT temperature testing, and not marketing hype or guessing, would indicate if the Ford CAI seal is more effective than aftermarket seals.
BTW, independent testing has shown that the stock intake has the highest IAT of all tested CAI's when the car is both idling and moving.

metroplex

Generally speaking, you're looking at more losses than gains with dyno error. Thinking otherwise is being overly optimistic or part of a plan to try and sell a product.

It also depends on how high the IAT is because the PCM pulls ignition timing only above a certain temperature, and even then it is multiplied by a value in a table as part of the final spark calculation. The stock 07 GT calibration calls for pulling ignition timing above 100F IAT, but the actual value is just part of the final spark calculation. It is not directly added/subtracted from this final spark. Unless you plan to drag race in Death Valley at 120F ambient, it won't be a significant problem. The OEM does extensive cold temperature and high temperature testing with the stock airbox to prevent engine damage in extreme conditions (the PCM advances spark at colder temperatures).

Real world test results can be easily skewed to convey a point or to sell a product. The engine needs a finite quantity of air for a given configuration. Using an air intake or exhaust designed for significantly more flow will not cause you to gain significantly more power.

I noticed that based on the stock MAF's air transfer function, Ford essentially chose the stock airbox for the stock engine because they seemed to be sized proportionally for the engine's hp/fuel requirements. The V6's air transfer function is different and is sized more appropriately for a smaller engine.

JonW

Doug, can you take the existing tunes you're already made for some of us with stock intakes, and revise them for the Bullitt CAI?

ski

The comment "Generally speaking, you're looking at more losses than gains with dyno error" requires substantiation in order to be credible.
I'm referring to the C&L CAI simply because one is installed in my car. But actually, any one of 6 other CAI's could also have been referenced, since the 5.0 article showed that the hp produced by them also exceeded the tune's hp increase.

Data logging results show that the IAT can get as hot as 140-150 F in real world driving.

Testing 10 different CAI's would have made it extremely difficult for 5.0 Magazine to be biased toward any one CAI regarding power output.
Again, a few extra hp, whether it's 10, 12, 15, or 20, can likely determine who wins and who loses.

That's Ford's assessment. However, dyno and drag strip results show that there's a better way.