05 Coil Packs Tested
2/21/06, 11:29 PM
#21
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lawman @ February 21, 2006, 9:58 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Vegasjay, First of all I read your install thread with great interest and you got a great machine and you seem like a real knowledgeable car enthusiast. I do disagree with you about manufacturers coming on this forum though. It seems to me that if manufacturers come on this forum we can benefit in a number of ways. For Instance:
1) We can complain to them about their products.
2) We can suggests ways that they can improve their products.
3) We can suggest new products for them to manufacture.
4) We can address their exagerated claims to them directly.
5) We can sometimes get good deals directly from the manufacturers not given to the general public.
Remember this forum is a two way street. Manufacturers have to answer our questions, complaints, concerns, suggestions and sometimes advice. However, if the forum is seen as an uncivilized place where they are going to be subjected to personal attacks, this will not happen.
And you have also said something that I don't believe and that is you don't like J.R.. I don't think you ever even met the man. Your basing a highly individualized judgment on the basis of a few posts. You can like or dislike whoever you want but at least look a guy in the eye before you make that decision.
Bad manners by a minority, on this forum will bring about the result you desire VegasJay, however, it will be at the expense of what I have to believe are the majority of forum members who desire the info and the chance to give manufacturer's their input.
[/b][/quote]
At the risk of running in the "Special Olympics".... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
I agree with your 5 point's above... It is tough to be a manufacturer on a forum and yes in many respect's they are at a disadvantage compared to the average Joe. They have to try to please everyone which is an impossible task. However if they stick to helping and supporting their customers without name calling and "used car" sales tactics and do the best they can to avoid "internet" argument's they do well. There are a lot of manufacturers that seem to know how to conduct themselves here and we all win and we receive the benefits you mentioned above.
You read to much into my post...I didn't say "I don't like J.R." . I was implying that I don't care for his tactic's...This is nothing personal and I will probably never meet him in person. So with that it can become important how manufacturers represent themselves here because for the most part you don't get to meet a lot of the people you buy from...
To summarize if the manufacturer makes good stuff we will buy it...If they provide excellent customer service whether it's via phone, computer, or in person they will sell more stuff...If they spend all day arguing on the net they may sell less stuff... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
Vegasjay, First of all I read your install thread with great interest and you got a great machine and you seem like a real knowledgeable car enthusiast. I do disagree with you about manufacturers coming on this forum though. It seems to me that if manufacturers come on this forum we can benefit in a number of ways. For Instance:
1) We can complain to them about their products.
2) We can suggests ways that they can improve their products.
3) We can suggest new products for them to manufacture.
4) We can address their exagerated claims to them directly.
5) We can sometimes get good deals directly from the manufacturers not given to the general public.
Remember this forum is a two way street. Manufacturers have to answer our questions, complaints, concerns, suggestions and sometimes advice. However, if the forum is seen as an uncivilized place where they are going to be subjected to personal attacks, this will not happen.
And you have also said something that I don't believe and that is you don't like J.R.. I don't think you ever even met the man. Your basing a highly individualized judgment on the basis of a few posts. You can like or dislike whoever you want but at least look a guy in the eye before you make that decision.
Bad manners by a minority, on this forum will bring about the result you desire VegasJay, however, it will be at the expense of what I have to believe are the majority of forum members who desire the info and the chance to give manufacturer's their input.
[/b][/quote]
At the risk of running in the "Special Olympics".... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
I agree with your 5 point's above... It is tough to be a manufacturer on a forum and yes in many respect's they are at a disadvantage compared to the average Joe. They have to try to please everyone which is an impossible task. However if they stick to helping and supporting their customers without name calling and "used car" sales tactics and do the best they can to avoid "internet" argument's they do well. There are a lot of manufacturers that seem to know how to conduct themselves here and we all win and we receive the benefits you mentioned above.
You read to much into my post...I didn't say "I don't like J.R." . I was implying that I don't care for his tactic's...This is nothing personal and I will probably never meet him in person. So with that it can become important how manufacturers represent themselves here because for the most part you don't get to meet a lot of the people you buy from...
To summarize if the manufacturer makes good stuff we will buy it...If they provide excellent customer service whether it's via phone, computer, or in person they will sell more stuff...If they spend all day arguing on the net they may sell less stuff... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
2/22/06, 12:12 AM
#22
GTR Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Venom800 @ February 21, 2006, 11:55 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Sorry for my ignorance, but what exactly do coil packs do?
[/b][/quote]
An ignition coil is a transformer that steps up the voltage from the battery voltage to a much higher level (typically ~ 25kV) in order to cause the spark plug to spark.
That being said, do different coils affect the performance of a car? IMO, its probably negligible. I say that since I've worked with automotive ignition systems for the auto manuf. A coil swap simply changes the inductance of the secondary of the transformer. By changing this, you change the energy of the spark.
E = 1/2 L I^2
Ignition maps are pretty funky, and I do not pretend to be an ignition expert, but based on what I have done, and seen what the auto manuf. have done, I think the stock system is pretty welll dialed in for all around performance and economy.
Just my $.02
Sorry for my ignorance, but what exactly do coil packs do?
[/b][/quote]
An ignition coil is a transformer that steps up the voltage from the battery voltage to a much higher level (typically ~ 25kV) in order to cause the spark plug to spark.
That being said, do different coils affect the performance of a car? IMO, its probably negligible. I say that since I've worked with automotive ignition systems for the auto manuf. A coil swap simply changes the inductance of the secondary of the transformer. By changing this, you change the energy of the spark.
E = 1/2 L I^2
Ignition maps are pretty funky, and I do not pretend to be an ignition expert, but based on what I have done, and seen what the auto manuf. have done, I think the stock system is pretty welll dialed in for all around performance and economy.
Just my $.02
2/22/06, 12:58 AM
#23
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lawman @ February 21, 2006, 11:18 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
And I don't buy the argument that he deserves the treatment because of the "tone" of his posts. All the guy did was enthusiastically promote his products and express his opinion on other products on the market. Which just happens to be something that virtually every enthusiast on this forum does with respect to products on their own vehicles.[/b][/quote]
People who post their opinions on products they purchased for their vehicles are posting for the benefit of other readers and not their personal financial gain.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lawman @ February 21, 2006, 11:18 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Anyone's claims should be challenged but the personal attacks against him are disgusting and completely unjustified. I'm hoping other manufacturer's come on this forum to solicit our opinions and tell us about their new products, but if they see the reception J.R. got, I wouldn't blame them for having second thoughts And that Gentlemen is a diservice to this forum.[/b][/quote]
I must say that no other manufacturer on this or any of the other sites I frequent AFM, MF, SN, and SVTP get treated like this. I have never seen Jason from BMR Fabrication, Gus from Steeda, Jim II and Jim III from JDM Engineering, or Jim and Scott at VT Engines get treated that way. So maybe it does have something to do with the "tone" of his posts or the way he presents his products in relation to other peoples products. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
Maybe this site should have vendor forums where manufacturers can showcase their products and answer customer and potential customers questions like some of the other boards have.
I have nothing further to add otherwise It'll look like I have something against him. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]
And I don't buy the argument that he deserves the treatment because of the "tone" of his posts. All the guy did was enthusiastically promote his products and express his opinion on other products on the market. Which just happens to be something that virtually every enthusiast on this forum does with respect to products on their own vehicles.[/b][/quote]
People who post their opinions on products they purchased for their vehicles are posting for the benefit of other readers and not their personal financial gain.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lawman @ February 21, 2006, 11:18 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Anyone's claims should be challenged but the personal attacks against him are disgusting and completely unjustified. I'm hoping other manufacturer's come on this forum to solicit our opinions and tell us about their new products, but if they see the reception J.R. got, I wouldn't blame them for having second thoughts And that Gentlemen is a diservice to this forum.[/b][/quote]
I must say that no other manufacturer on this or any of the other sites I frequent AFM, MF, SN, and SVTP get treated like this. I have never seen Jason from BMR Fabrication, Gus from Steeda, Jim II and Jim III from JDM Engineering, or Jim and Scott at VT Engines get treated that way. So maybe it does have something to do with the "tone" of his posts or the way he presents his products in relation to other peoples products. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
Maybe this site should have vendor forums where manufacturers can showcase their products and answer customer and potential customers questions like some of the other boards have.
I have nothing further to add otherwise It'll look like I have something against him. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img]
2/22/06, 07:55 AM
#25
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Why do all of these threads get ruined with this immature junior high drama??? JR is trying to run a business and obviously is promoting his products. His tactics might offend people, but this happens everyday. The Big 3 do the same thing in their marketing/advertising. Some of you guys are following JR around looking for an arguement.
2/22/06, 10:40 AM
#26
My only opinion is that I like 05STG1's avatar....
2/22/06, 10:50 AM
#27
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Yes this thread and many others has gotten out of hand and I feel like I'm back in high school like "max200jp" said. It's drama. I was a victim to a product that I became the test mule for which was the JET T/B Spacer and everyone bashed on me saying it was POS when it wasnt. they wanted me to prove it by providing dyno numbers and giving them all this feed back that cost me more $$ out of my pcoket. well in the end 8 other TMS people bought the spacer and got the same exact results as i did and they were happily satisfied! Bam end of story!! It did what it said it would. and the bashinf came from people who didnt know "squat" about it. I luckily did my research b4 i bought it!
another example! the throttle body from GMS!!! JR proved his point. So all those people ate their own words about the view of the T/B and how they thought it didnt gain anything. But I've noticed, its pretty much the same people in each forum post that come in and make the posts.
Once again, here we have a member from another forum who tested the product and the coils, from the dyno sheet, works!!! so for people to come on here and start drama again with a product that they dont anything about, please, grow up! Just because you've had mechanic experience or whatever your general knowledge may be, maybe you dont know everything! and this could be one product you dont know anything about! If you dont have a nice comment to say, keep it to yourself.......end of story
another example! the throttle body from GMS!!! JR proved his point. So all those people ate their own words about the view of the T/B and how they thought it didnt gain anything. But I've noticed, its pretty much the same people in each forum post that come in and make the posts.
Once again, here we have a member from another forum who tested the product and the coils, from the dyno sheet, works!!! so for people to come on here and start drama again with a product that they dont anything about, please, grow up! Just because you've had mechanic experience or whatever your general knowledge may be, maybe you dont know everything! and this could be one product you dont know anything about! If you dont have a nice comment to say, keep it to yourself.......end of story
2/22/06, 11:28 AM
#28
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MaverickMLFD371 @ February 22, 2006, 9:53 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Once again, here we have a member from another forum who tested the product and the coils, from the dyno sheet, works!!! so for people to come on here and start drama again with a product that they dont anything about, please, grow up! Just because you've had mechanic experience or whatever your general knowledge may be, maybe you dont know everything! and this could be one product you dont know anything about! If you dont have a nice comment to say, keep it to yourself.......end of story
[/b][/quote]
Paul... you may want to re-read the posts in this thread. I don't see where anyone is disputing the results shown in the first post. Those were achieved on a "blown" car. The the only dissenting comments were regarding your post about the claim of gains for a "N/A" car, for which no actual results were posted... just a "claim". So if someone then says they have a hard time believing 15hp on a N/A car, that is their opinion. There were no derogatory comments included in those responses. We haven't seen anything yet to confirm or refute those claims, so the jury is still out. And personally, I have not said one thing negative or positive about the coilpacks, and I don't intend to.
As far as drama goes, it started with Post #10 by lawman. You can lay the blame for the drama right there, IMO.
Once again, here we have a member from another forum who tested the product and the coils, from the dyno sheet, works!!! so for people to come on here and start drama again with a product that they dont anything about, please, grow up! Just because you've had mechanic experience or whatever your general knowledge may be, maybe you dont know everything! and this could be one product you dont know anything about! If you dont have a nice comment to say, keep it to yourself.......end of story
[/b][/quote]
Paul... you may want to re-read the posts in this thread. I don't see where anyone is disputing the results shown in the first post. Those were achieved on a "blown" car. The the only dissenting comments were regarding your post about the claim of gains for a "N/A" car, for which no actual results were posted... just a "claim". So if someone then says they have a hard time believing 15hp on a N/A car, that is their opinion. There were no derogatory comments included in those responses. We haven't seen anything yet to confirm or refute those claims, so the jury is still out. And personally, I have not said one thing negative or positive about the coilpacks, and I don't intend to.
As far as drama goes, it started with Post #10 by lawman. You can lay the blame for the drama right there, IMO.
2/22/06, 11:38 AM
#29
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To everyone: This is a free country with a free market. If you don't like someone pitching products, simply don't buy it, simple as that. You want to stick it to someone, hurt their bottom line(wallet).
2/22/06, 11:45 AM
#30
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(2006GT @ February 22, 2006, 12:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
My only opinion is that I like 05STG1's avatar....
[/b][/quote]
I guess your the only one. Someone deleted it...
Unbelievable. At least send me a PM whoever you are...!!
My only opinion is that I like 05STG1's avatar....
[/b][/quote]
I guess your the only one. Someone deleted it...
Unbelievable. At least send me a PM whoever you are...!!
2/22/06, 02:59 PM
#31
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I'm not quite sure who you guy's a referring to with the drama stuff, but I posted in this thread to express interest in this product period...Lawman wanted to call me out and through me under the bus for a vague statement I made a while ago expressing concern about "Manufacturer" conduct on this site, so I answered him. Those that know me know that I am here to learn and help...I could care less how one runs their business on here as long as it doesn't get in the way of why I'm here. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
So any new Coil-Pack new's?? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
So any new Coil-Pack new's?? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
2/22/06, 03:22 PM
#32
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Bottom Line - The part works.
Derek - I just want to talk about parts. I am not looking for a fight. Don W bashed me and because I defended myself (as a manufacture) I loose. If I was just a dude talking about stuff then there would have been no issue
Derek - I just want to talk about parts. I am not looking for a fight. Don W bashed me and because I defended myself (as a manufacture) I loose. If I was just a dude talking about stuff then there would have been no issue
2/22/06, 03:31 PM
#33
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05STG1 @ February 22, 2006, 12:48 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I guess your the only one. Someone deleted it...
Unbelievable. At least send me a PM whoever you are...!!
[/b][/quote]
Help! Help He's being repressed!
I guess your the only one. Someone deleted it...
Unbelievable. At least send me a PM whoever you are...!!
[/b][/quote]
Help! Help He's being repressed!
2/22/06, 03:32 PM
#34
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I am not sure how I can chime in and change anything. I write with passion and usually say IMO. I thought you guys (most of you) understood Opinion from Fact.
I can speak about Centrifugal blower "facts" based on my years of experience. When the coils come out i got all the guys that said no way. Now the first of many tests have proven fruitfull and still I get the guys that say anti coil comments rather then no comment. I only ask that I be judged through the same microscpoe as the rest.
I can speak about Centrifugal blower "facts" based on my years of experience. When the coils come out i got all the guys that said no way. Now the first of many tests have proven fruitfull and still I get the guys that say anti coil comments rather then no comment. I only ask that I be judged through the same microscpoe as the rest.
2/22/06, 08:32 PM
#35
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Granatelli @ February 22, 2006, 4:25 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Bottom Line - The part works.
Derek - I just want to talk about parts. I am not looking for a fight. Don W bashed me and because I defended myself (as a manufacture) I loose. If I was just a dude talking about stuff then there would have been no issue
[/b][/quote]
JR, thank you for the reply. I have no "fight" with you, only a little dissapointed in the way you handled the vendor/post at MD, it reminded me of my experience with Jim/Kenne Bell. I like your products and am interested in the coil packs, I want to purchase them but I will not add them to my car until it is tuned or at least running, should be by this week or next. I would like to meet you sometime, I am sure there are some events we will be attending the same time as you.
Thanks
Derek
Bottom Line - The part works.
Derek - I just want to talk about parts. I am not looking for a fight. Don W bashed me and because I defended myself (as a manufacture) I loose. If I was just a dude talking about stuff then there would have been no issue
[/b][/quote]
JR, thank you for the reply. I have no "fight" with you, only a little dissapointed in the way you handled the vendor/post at MD, it reminded me of my experience with Jim/Kenne Bell. I like your products and am interested in the coil packs, I want to purchase them but I will not add them to my car until it is tuned or at least running, should be by this week or next. I would like to meet you sometime, I am sure there are some events we will be attending the same time as you.
Thanks
Derek
3/4/06, 03:07 PM
#36
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dhof303 @ February 22, 2006, 7:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
JR, thank you for the reply. I have no "fight" with you, only a little dissapointed in the way you handled the vendor/post at MD, it reminded me of my experience with Jim/Kenne Bell. I like your products and am interested in the coil packs, I want to purchase them but I will not add them to my car until it is tuned or at least running, should be by this week or next. I would like to meet you sometime, I am sure there are some events we will be attending the same time as you.
Thanks
Derek
[/b][/quote]
I agreed I was an idiot - we all have moments of weakness - I hope I won't do it again [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
JR, thank you for the reply. I have no "fight" with you, only a little dissapointed in the way you handled the vendor/post at MD, it reminded me of my experience with Jim/Kenne Bell. I like your products and am interested in the coil packs, I want to purchase them but I will not add them to my car until it is tuned or at least running, should be by this week or next. I would like to meet you sometime, I am sure there are some events we will be attending the same time as you.
Thanks
Derek
[/b][/quote]
I agreed I was an idiot - we all have moments of weakness - I hope I won't do it again [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
3/4/06, 04:36 PM
#37
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I agree with vender forum.
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of automotive after market products out there that do not work so the consumer has every right to be suspicious of claims made. Not unlike the TV ads stating sixty dollar value for only $19.95. Yea Right ON.
Do we not have a duty or common courtesy to inform our fellow stang owners? Is it not Buyer Beware? There is a lot of snake oil out there!
\
I questioned some throttle body claims when the very same throttle body,( I have one) tested by an independent member of this forum did not produce the same results. Whom do you think I believe?
Have you not seen the great add on spark mods that would produce a huge amount of performance and great gas mileage improvement? They have been around for at least sixty years. Guess What less than 1% actually worked!
My two cents!!
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of automotive after market products out there that do not work so the consumer has every right to be suspicious of claims made. Not unlike the TV ads stating sixty dollar value for only $19.95. Yea Right ON.
Do we not have a duty or common courtesy to inform our fellow stang owners? Is it not Buyer Beware? There is a lot of snake oil out there!
\
I questioned some throttle body claims when the very same throttle body,( I have one) tested by an independent member of this forum did not produce the same results. Whom do you think I believe?
Have you not seen the great add on spark mods that would produce a huge amount of performance and great gas mileage improvement? They have been around for at least sixty years. Guess What less than 1% actually worked!
My two cents!!
3/4/06, 05:27 PM
#38
Are any other companies making performance coil packs?
3/5/06, 04:44 AM
#40
Bullitt Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MaverickMLFD371 @ February 22, 2006, 12:53 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>...in the end 8 other TMS people bought the spacer and got the same exact results as i did and they were happily satisfied! [/b][/quote] 9! I put one on a couple of weeks ago. I haven't a chance to get it out and get it tuned, but I trust that I will get the same "seat of the pants" feel others have gotten. Now if winter would ever go away in Michigan, I'd like to finally drive this car. I believe that is sometime in June. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img] (My car came the day before the first big snow fall and has been inside ever since, 243 mi since November)