TacoBill

Tom, got your PM, but I'll just reply here.

Don't know if it's an issue with these current turbos, but back in the day (George can validate this), the impellars/vanes were subject to coaking if the engine was not allowed to cool the turbo down before turning off the engine.

Also, isn't the turbo or collector located at the rear of the car near the axle-backs? I would think that the plumbing under the car may be susceptible to damage (from running over junk).

I just think that a shorter and direct FI should be considered. Anytime you go through so many tubes, elbows, and couplings, you run the risk of leaks and damage.

Not saying turbos are bad, but just wanted to throw some negatives out since you have enough praise on them.

If you do go the FI route, you better bite your tongue and just get the MGW shifter.

pville piper

Here we go again!


Good luck Tom, sounds great! Maybe one of these days I'll get back down that way and you can take me for a ride. I'd love to see the troop car in person as well. Have fun!

TacoBill

Oh boy...

habu

Jeez I had to come back to this ??? WTF:gay:


Anyway, is the GMS turbo towards the rear ?? (I didn't look at the vid/link Tom posted) ?? I would definitely shy away from that system and get one where the turbo is up front where it should be. .02 YMMV

USMC0341

I agree with tacobill on this but with newer synthetic oils, and proper care(ie. letting the engine idle to prevent oil starvation before shutdown,Good oil cooling,ect) can reduce coaking and increase turbo life.

Tom, I assume your talking about this kit
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com...tang/turbo.htm

Here's my two cents...
Seems like a very complete kit, and looking at the instructions it looks like you can tackle this job in a weekend.

You want the run the highest octane that's available in your area just to be safe.

Just remember at hp levels of 475rwhp you start to reach the limits of the stock drivetrain. Don't get me wrong, many people have cars running at hp levels with no problems but others have grenaded the engine at lower hp levels. So be prepared to upgrade the drivetrain.

Turbos have a great power potential and will live a long life as long you do supporting mods!

Have fun and cant wait to see pics/write up!

89Trooper

Everything is up front where it's supposed to be. I actually don't know how it could be any shorter. Where did you get that it had to run to the rear by the axle-backs, Bill?



Here's a pic of the plumbing from underneath. There are no clearance issues since everything is as high or higher than the stock components.

Attachment 34551 The H-Pipe is cut and the cats are changed out. So everything is from the cats forward.

Keep giving me negatives... anything that comes up I'll ask them before ordering!

USMC0341

Can't wait to see the pics!

89Trooper

Yep, that's the kit. I still will be using Mobil 1 synethic oil and I'm going to talk to them about adding an oil cooler like on an automatic transmission to help with heating issues like you and Bill mentioned. Then again, they may say it isn't necessary with the newer turbos. This is one of the concerns I'll be talking to them about. I do see that a lot has changed with turbos and heat may not be as much of an issue nowadays.

I would at least use 91 octane. If they say 93 octane would help for safety, I would run it. If it's tuned to run with 91 and 93 won't do any good I might as well run the 91. I would never run 87, though.

As far as the limits, that's why they keep it around 7 to 8 psi. From the little I've read, when people keep it at that level of boost, they don't have any problems. It's only when they start going over 9 psi and don't make the necessary engine mods that they start having problems. I just found this in a thread posted by Granatelli:

"If all you want is 450hp then leave the kit at 8psi and you can go 200,000 miles trouble free."

I think I'll be good with that. I won't risk hurting the engine by pushing it any higher.

89Trooper

Thanks! And, anytime!

JedCranium

Hey George I shot you when your weren't looking! I should have then up is a few some cool drag shots!

Jed

NYNY53

Good point Bill on the cool down. Theres a bunch of fella's here who are running turbo's on 4 and 8's cylinder engines and they all have them set up to run for a set period of time after the stop and get out of the car. It's a weird deal when you walk by their cars and they are still running for a few minutes while they cool down lol

89Trooper

I'll call today and ask about this. It may still be a concern, and it may not be. They used to have to run things called "turbo timers" and those are not necessary any more. There used to be a thing called "turbo lag" , and that doesn't happen any more.

It just seems they have come a long way.

I'm still curious about running an oil cooler after the turbo before it dumps back into the oil pan.

tom281

Just FYI for Bill's benefit, I think he's thinking of the STS turbo kit that has the turbos mounted at the muffler location.

TacoBill

Yeah, that was it. I saw it a while back in one of the Mustang magazines.


Tom1, I was looking through the install directions and what turned me off was all the Ace bandaging you have to do. For function.. , but for show.. . Only mentioning this because you said that there were too many SC'd cars and not any TC'd, thus the interest in this kit.

On Granetelli's 200k mile claim, how do they know this? Is this how many miles is on their test mule? What I predict after that many miles and boost are worn out piston rings and valve guides.

89Trooper

That is heat-shielding, and from looking at that blue car (and yellow car), you don't see much of that when looking at the engine. All of the piping you see is stainless steel. In this picture, the radiator cover still has to go back on:

Attachment 34554 All the Ace bandaging is under the car. I think it looks great! I would have a custom stainless fuse box cover made up with the car's RWHP and TQ.

Attachment 34555 I realize this picture is a little different. I'll find out if this is an old or new kit. Maybe the kit now includes the stainless bend shown in the yellow car's kit. If this is the way it looks, I'm ok with that little bit of heat shielding showing.

I didn't take that as a claim or warranty. I think he is saying that as long as you stay at the 8psi you are safe. Go above 8 psi and you are on your own! (which I wouldn't do)

I've read here (and elsewear) that a turbo with 8psi is equivalent to a supercharger with 10psi. So, there would be no more wear and tear on the engine with this kit than with a supercharger at 10psi. Actually less since there is NO strain on the engine at cruising speeds.

As you can imagine, I've been reading and researching a lot. These are not only things Granatelli is saying to try to sell their kit. I've read these things elsewhere, too.

Bill (or anybody else) - don't stop with your observations - that's what I asked for! When I come back with my replies, don't take it as arguing or me just trying to justify things that may be concerns (big or small). Most of the things you have pointed out I've already thought about (heat issues, "Ace bandaging", etc.) so I've already looked into them (or plan to). Remember, I'm not going to take this out and road-race it or drag race it with all those hard launches and extra wear and tear. Keep in mind this is going on a semi-daily driver show car. I'll get on it once in awhile, but it won't see the abuse like it would in a race car.

NYNY53

No bid deal, sounds like they have come along way with the turbo's especially if they don't need a cool down timer any longer or have boost lag like in the past.

Sounding better all the time.

TacoBill

The pic of the blue GT looks good maybe because it's more 'complete' with the radiator shroud back on.

This turbo sounds like a good deal and the install shouldn't be too difficult either. Would be nice if you can find someone with this set up and go for a ride in it and get the owner's feedbackon how he likes it before comitting to it.

TacoBill

Photoshoot last Saturday went well. Sun dropped too quick and started to get a bit breezy, but Jed managed to get some good shots in while we had some natural sunlight. I'm pretty sure Jed will post a teaser or two later tonight.

When I get all the pics after he does some photoshop corrections, I'll put together a slideshow. I also shot some 'behind the scenes' video footage.

Didn't have time to have the girls model with the Roush, so my car got all the attention.

Kudos out to my 3 nieces for putting up with the cold weather and modeling. And big kudos to Jed for taking the pics and the 'post-shoot' CPK after party.

On a side note, I got the opportunity to run side-by-side against the Roush on an open stretch of road. We were on a roll off 2nd and both nailed it... I thought I could keep up somewhat, but he started to pull lengths on me!
Dang, Jed's KB powered Roush is quick.

NYNY53

Yes, try and buy is a great approach. I defiantly would want to try one out and get unbiased feedback before I popped for 5+ grand.

89Trooper

I did PM one person that I found that has it. I'll see if he replies.

I can't imagine what I wouldn't like about it and the approx 450 RWHP!

Looking forward to the pics, Bill! There is a way to keep up with Jed - I'll let you know how the install goes!