Crazy Gas Prices
#61
The American consumer is getting taken out behind the woodshed, period.
End of Story.
Until we have a government that understands that the Economy DEPENDS on the Middle Class folks (oops I'm sorry now called the WORKING POOR) this crap is going to continue to happen.
Gas Prices go up, next food prices go up, then electricity will go up, then cable/satellite/internet go up, followed by any number of other bull-**** excuses to raise prices (read CORPORATE PROFITS)
Understand one thing here, The Ultra Rich and well heeled, don't care about "lesser" people, never have, never will.
The average joe who works hard gets the shaft, the corporate big-wig who manages to bend the rules and profits of the misfortune of others, is REWARDED for doing so.
Sorry for the minor rant, but unless your independently wealthy and immune to these issues, it's going to get a helluva lot worse before it gets better.
Personally, I think the whole system is broken, and the people running the show are bleeding this country dry.
End of Story.
Until we have a government that understands that the Economy DEPENDS on the Middle Class folks (oops I'm sorry now called the WORKING POOR) this crap is going to continue to happen.
Gas Prices go up, next food prices go up, then electricity will go up, then cable/satellite/internet go up, followed by any number of other bull-**** excuses to raise prices (read CORPORATE PROFITS)
Understand one thing here, The Ultra Rich and well heeled, don't care about "lesser" people, never have, never will.
The average joe who works hard gets the shaft, the corporate big-wig who manages to bend the rules and profits of the misfortune of others, is REWARDED for doing so.
Sorry for the minor rant, but unless your independently wealthy and immune to these issues, it's going to get a helluva lot worse before it gets better.
Personally, I think the whole system is broken, and the people running the show are bleeding this country dry.
#64
$3.75 9/10ths here in for 87. $4.00 for 93.
People around here are starting to realize the easiest way to save gas if you can't cut miles is SLOW DOWN!! Took these Berks County retards long enough to figure that out. But then again 90% of the people born in this county are inbreds. Luckily I was not
People around here are starting to realize the easiest way to save gas if you can't cut miles is SLOW DOWN!! Took these Berks County retards long enough to figure that out. But then again 90% of the people born in this county are inbreds. Luckily I was not
#65
On Oahu, (Honolulu) gas is around $3.90/gal. for 87 octane (it may already have increased when I go out later tonight... ). On Maui this past weekend , it was $4.27 and then $4.3x/gal. (Kahului) for same. (Don't even want to try and guess the prices on Lanai or Molokai... Ouch!
#66
Do the math people. July oil is $135/barrel. Thats $3.214/gallon before its refined and delivered. Then there is the federal and various state taxes. There isn't much left for the refiner to take. It is quantities of scale I will admit, but the margin is decreasing and therefore the risk is increasing. I can't imagine that Congress taking their profits is going to help either. If you can't make money anymore at your job what would you do? Quit or go where you can make money. Cap and Trade and/or Windfall profits tax will kill this country. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy and I think we all understand that now. Stop congress before we go the way of the Roman Empire and are destroyed from the bureacracy within. The enemies are at the gates, DC is on fire, and Chuck Schumer is fiddlin' his *** off while we will suffer.
Last edited by 2k7gtcs; 5/22/08 at 11:39 PM. Reason: spelling
#68
The oil companys make about 8 cents per gallon. The government (state and federal) is getting between 35-50 cents per gallon (depends what state you live in) taxes on the stuff. Who is making out the best on this deal AND for doing nothing? $3.99 here in Indiana
#69
good point brother!
#70
The Man... keeping you down.
Joined: August 15, 2004
Posts: 823
Likes: 1
From: Stealin' ur internetz
Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4133668.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4133668.ece
Originally Posted by Times Online
“Ten years ago I could never have imagined I’d be doing this,” says Greg Pal, 33, a former software executive, as he squints into the late afternoon Californian sun. “I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to – especially the ones coming out of business school – this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.”
He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.
Unbelievably, this is not science fiction. Mr Pal holds up a small beaker of bug excretion that could, theoretically, be poured into the tank of the giant Lexus SUV next to us. Not that Mr Pal is willing to risk it just yet. He gives it a month before the first vehicle is filled up on what he calls “renewable petroleum”. After that, he grins, “it’s a brave new world”.
Mr Pal is a senior director of LS9, one of several companies in or near Silicon Valley that have spurned traditional high-tech activities such as software and networking and embarked instead on an extraordinary race to make $140-a-barrel oil (£70) from Saudi Arabia obsolete. “All of us here – everyone in this company and in this industry, are aware of the urgency,” Mr Pal says.
What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.
LS9 has already convinced one oil industry veteran of its plan: Bob Walsh, 50, who now serves as the firm’s president after a 26-year career at Shell, most recently running European supply operations in London. “How many times in your life do you get the opportunity to grow a multi-billion-dollar company?” he asks. It is a bold statement from a man who works in a glorified cubicle in a San Francisco industrial estate for a company that describes itself as being “prerevenue”.
Inside LS9’s cluttered laboratory – funded by $20 million of start-up capital from investors including Vinod Khosla, the Indian-American entrepreneur who co-founded Sun Micro-systems – Mr Pal explains that LS9’s bugs are single-cell organisms, each a fraction of a billionth the size of an ant. They start out as industrial yeast or nonpathogenic strains of E. coli, but LS9 modifies them by custom-de-signing their DNA. “Five to seven years ago, that process would have taken months and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,” he says. “Now it can take weeks and cost maybe $20,000.”
Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.
For fermentation to take place you need raw material, or feedstock, as it is known in the biofuels industry. Anything will do as long as it can be broken down into sugars, with the byproduct ideally burnt to produce electricity to run the plant.
The company is not interested in using corn as feedstock, given the much-publicised problems created by using food crops for fuel, such as the tortilla inflation that recently caused food riots in Mexico City. Instead, different types of agricultural waste will be used according to whatever makes sense for the local climate and economy: wheat straw in California, for example, or woodchips in the South.
Using genetically modified bugs for fermentation is essentially the same as using natural bacteria to produce ethanol, although the energy-intensive final process of distillation is virtually eliminated because the bugs excrete a substance that is almost pump-ready.
The closest that LS9 has come to mass production is a 1,000-litre fermenting machine, which looks like a large stainless-steel jar, next to a wardrobe-sized computer connected by a tangle of cables and tubes. It has not yet been plugged in. The machine produces the equivalent of one barrel a week and takes up 40 sq ft of floor space.
However, to substitute America’s weekly oil consumption of 143 million barrels, you would need a facility that covered about 205 square miles, an area roughly the size of Chicago.
That is the main problem: although LS9 can produce its bug fuel in laboratory beakers, it has no idea whether it will be able produce the same results on a nationwide or even global scale.
“Our plan is to have a demonstration-scale plant operational by 2010 and, in parallel, we’ll be working on the design and construction of a commercial-scale facility to open in 2011,” says Mr Pal, adding that if LS9 used Brazilian sugar cane as its feedstock, its fuel would probably cost about $50 a barrel.
Are Americans ready to be putting genetically modified bug excretion in their cars? “It’s not the same as with food,” Mr Pal says. “We’re putting these bacteria in a very isolated container: their entire universe is in that tank. When we’re done with them, they’re destroyed.”
Besides, he says, there is greater good being served. “I have two children, and climate change is something that they are going to face. The energy crisis is something that they are going to face. We have a collective responsibility to do this.”
He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.
Unbelievably, this is not science fiction. Mr Pal holds up a small beaker of bug excretion that could, theoretically, be poured into the tank of the giant Lexus SUV next to us. Not that Mr Pal is willing to risk it just yet. He gives it a month before the first vehicle is filled up on what he calls “renewable petroleum”. After that, he grins, “it’s a brave new world”.
Mr Pal is a senior director of LS9, one of several companies in or near Silicon Valley that have spurned traditional high-tech activities such as software and networking and embarked instead on an extraordinary race to make $140-a-barrel oil (£70) from Saudi Arabia obsolete. “All of us here – everyone in this company and in this industry, are aware of the urgency,” Mr Pal says.
What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.
LS9 has already convinced one oil industry veteran of its plan: Bob Walsh, 50, who now serves as the firm’s president after a 26-year career at Shell, most recently running European supply operations in London. “How many times in your life do you get the opportunity to grow a multi-billion-dollar company?” he asks. It is a bold statement from a man who works in a glorified cubicle in a San Francisco industrial estate for a company that describes itself as being “prerevenue”.
Inside LS9’s cluttered laboratory – funded by $20 million of start-up capital from investors including Vinod Khosla, the Indian-American entrepreneur who co-founded Sun Micro-systems – Mr Pal explains that LS9’s bugs are single-cell organisms, each a fraction of a billionth the size of an ant. They start out as industrial yeast or nonpathogenic strains of E. coli, but LS9 modifies them by custom-de-signing their DNA. “Five to seven years ago, that process would have taken months and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,” he says. “Now it can take weeks and cost maybe $20,000.”
Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.
For fermentation to take place you need raw material, or feedstock, as it is known in the biofuels industry. Anything will do as long as it can be broken down into sugars, with the byproduct ideally burnt to produce electricity to run the plant.
The company is not interested in using corn as feedstock, given the much-publicised problems created by using food crops for fuel, such as the tortilla inflation that recently caused food riots in Mexico City. Instead, different types of agricultural waste will be used according to whatever makes sense for the local climate and economy: wheat straw in California, for example, or woodchips in the South.
Using genetically modified bugs for fermentation is essentially the same as using natural bacteria to produce ethanol, although the energy-intensive final process of distillation is virtually eliminated because the bugs excrete a substance that is almost pump-ready.
The closest that LS9 has come to mass production is a 1,000-litre fermenting machine, which looks like a large stainless-steel jar, next to a wardrobe-sized computer connected by a tangle of cables and tubes. It has not yet been plugged in. The machine produces the equivalent of one barrel a week and takes up 40 sq ft of floor space.
However, to substitute America’s weekly oil consumption of 143 million barrels, you would need a facility that covered about 205 square miles, an area roughly the size of Chicago.
That is the main problem: although LS9 can produce its bug fuel in laboratory beakers, it has no idea whether it will be able produce the same results on a nationwide or even global scale.
“Our plan is to have a demonstration-scale plant operational by 2010 and, in parallel, we’ll be working on the design and construction of a commercial-scale facility to open in 2011,” says Mr Pal, adding that if LS9 used Brazilian sugar cane as its feedstock, its fuel would probably cost about $50 a barrel.
Are Americans ready to be putting genetically modified bug excretion in their cars? “It’s not the same as with food,” Mr Pal says. “We’re putting these bacteria in a very isolated container: their entire universe is in that tank. When we’re done with them, they’re destroyed.”
Besides, he says, there is greater good being served. “I have two children, and climate change is something that they are going to face. The energy crisis is something that they are going to face. We have a collective responsibility to do this.”
#71
I can see it now...all of those bugs get loose and eat all the humans....
#72
I just love those chain letters going around to boycot the big 3. Plain and simple, until the demand comes down prices will continue to rise. I know I said it before and I will say it again. Easiest explaination I read was in an online article that compared gas to shoes (cause we all need/use both). Picture a shoe company that makes 1.5 million pairs of shoes a year and sell them for $3.00/pair. Now if the demand were to double, so would their costs as they would need to make a bigger facility, hire more employees, etc etc etc. So in order to sell 3 million pairs they would raise the price of the shoes to $6.00/pair. Eventually what happens (and yes, this happens with all products including gas) is the demand comes down as people find other alternatives (different manufacturers in the case of the shoes). As demand comes down the price of the shoes will also come down as they will no longer be struggling to keep up with the demand and will be able to keep a supply in stock. I know sounds odd but the only way gas prices are going to come down is to change the way we use fuel. Stop driving to the corner store, dust off the bikes or start walking. I know a bunch of us at work have started to car pool. I don't ***** about gas prices. After all, I pay more for a litre of Coke than I do for a litre of gas and gas is harder to make (last time I checked).
Last edited by adrenalin; 6/19/08 at 11:23 AM.
#73
I agree somewhat. However,demand has been very high for some time now and prices have jumped 60 % in a little over a year. there are many other factors involved right now. Opec and Saudi's play a big role
#75
I was watching the news last night and Obama was asked about his position on drilling off the US coasts. He says he's against it and that it wouldn't bring any relief to gas prices for 5 years. Back in 2000 I remember people being against drilling in ANWR because it'd be 10 years before we saw a reduction in gas prices (even if that were true, it'd mean relief in just over a year, which is better than anything else being suggested). Now for the last 10 years we've continued to purchase oil from terrorist supporting nations and look where it's gotten us. In the mean time, I don't fully buy the 5 or 10 year theory. If people actually believed we were serious about reducing our demand for foreign oil, I believe we'd see a slight, but immediate impact.
#76
If Congress or the President said we will drill in ANWR and off shore of all states the price would drop today. I know the oil would not come out of the ground immediately, but the speculators in the oil commodity market would not want to hold their paper knowing that production in the future would increase. They would sell and the market would probably drop 20-30% from $135. The rest would come when the oil makes its way into the marketplace.
But to continue to say we should not drill here now is crazy and leads me to beleive that they have something else at stake. The true liberal agenda is the destruction of our capitalist society and a side note the destruction of the fossil fuel burning internal combustion engine. They want our cars, our guns, our money, and our asses. They want socialism. They already had Maxine Waters and others saying we should nationalize refineries yesterday so that the government (Congress) could better control the flow of supply. OH ****!!! The government in control of my gas. Just shoot me now. I'm serious just go ahead and shoot me now before the government comes and takes your gun and your Mustang away because some Spotted Warbler got a cough from its tailpipe. We are doomed people!
But to continue to say we should not drill here now is crazy and leads me to beleive that they have something else at stake. The true liberal agenda is the destruction of our capitalist society and a side note the destruction of the fossil fuel burning internal combustion engine. They want our cars, our guns, our money, and our asses. They want socialism. They already had Maxine Waters and others saying we should nationalize refineries yesterday so that the government (Congress) could better control the flow of supply. OH ****!!! The government in control of my gas. Just shoot me now. I'm serious just go ahead and shoot me now before the government comes and takes your gun and your Mustang away because some Spotted Warbler got a cough from its tailpipe. We are doomed people!
Last edited by 2k7gtcs; 6/19/08 at 12:35 PM.
#77
they always say 5-10 years... straight outta the playbook. truth is, we can drill more, improve the bio fuels, get better mpg and research cool inventions like this bug stuff all at the same time! all these things will lower price which is a killer right now
#78
here's more on that company:
[Greg] Pal is a senior director of LS9, one of several companies in or near Silicon Valley that have spurned traditional high-tech activities such as software and networking and embarked instead on an extraordinary race to make $140-a-barrel oil...from Saudi Arabia obsolete. "All of us here—everyone in this company and in this industry, are aware of the urgency," Mr Pal says.
What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy—as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel—they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this "Oil 2.0" will not only be renewable but also carbon negative—meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.
What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy—as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel—they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this "Oil 2.0" will not only be renewable but also carbon negative—meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.