1999 Black 35th GT

Zastava_101

How about Honda? I really don't like them at all and I don't have any respect for them. Accord V6 is known for transmission problems and CR-V ... well, we all heard story about CR-V.

Hollywood_North GT

It's just interesting that the two companies you picked are profitable. Can't argue with success.

Where's Ford these days (and I say that as a Ford fan)?

1999 Black 35th GT

Mitsubishi isn't very profitable last I heard overall. I understand your reasoning, but in all honesty I have had a strong distaste for Toyota for many, many years. Part of the reason being that my father dislikes them too with all the heck they put him through.

I wouldn't like them if they were the least profitable company or the most.

And right now Ford is in a rebuilding phase. Things can't turn around majorly in the span of less than 5 years in this business. It takes time to rebuild. But with 30%-40% Fivehundred owners being new to Ford and 45% of the Mercury Montego owners never owning a Mercury before its looking good. The Fusion is a go getter too and the Mustang, well the waiting list speaks for itself.

That and Ford is really focusing on the truck market with the SEMA show.

All signs point to a better future for Ford

Zoran,
I'm not a huge fan of Honda either. I really don't enjoy any of their vehicles. With my wife being a former Honda owner she can't point out plenty of little things that drove her nuts.

Did I ever tell you about the time when our remote starter was starting the car by itself That was a pain. I had to disconnect the battery.

future9er24

starting itself? lol that might be a bad sign lol

Hollywood_North GT

I think Ford is definitely moving in the right direction. But there are still areas where they need work - like the cheap plastics and carpeting in the Mustang's interior. It's the difference between a 'good' car and a 'great' one. Import vehicle interiors in the Mustang's price point just aren't that low rent.

Honestly, I'd like to see more of Ford's European products make it over here. One promising example is the new Iosis Coupe Concept. Ford needs to start taking risks and building cars like this - not only for Europe - but for North America too. That would give the passenger car division some increased "cool" and help them compete more effectively against the imports.

But in Ford's press release they state: "It is not the precursor to a production model, rather an indicator of future trends." And that's another of Ford's problems. Don't show people something cool like this then release a thoroughly watered-down version 18 months later. The public just come to expect bait and switch after a while. The imports do a much better job of translating "concept" into "reality."

I recently read an AutoWeek article indicating that Ford was having a hard time weaning off incentives. Note to Ford: Build cars like the Iosis. Ford sits idly by and watches THOUSANDS of Maxima's fly off the sales lots, sits on incredible designs like the losis and force feeds us the Grandpahundred?

We'd drive a Ford lately if they'd give us something inspiring to try*....

(* - excludes the well thought out, well designed, well performing Mustang)

But there's an old saying: "As long as you keep doin' what yer doin', you'll keep gettin' what yer gettin'.

1999 Black 35th GT

I agree that the Iosis is a neat concept but in all honesty you have to look at whether it would sell to the masses or a niche market. Would I buy it? Yes.

Look at the Ford 427 concept, really neat right? Well they still made a great car from the concept with the Fusion. I think that car is definetley not a grandpa car. Not in the slightest.

On the topic of cheap materials, Nissan would be the spokesperson for cheap. Have you ridden in a Maxima lately? The road noise and fit an finish seems like the car is made of paper mache.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that the interiors of Ford vehicles should be referred to as cheap. I just don't see it. Just my opinion.

On another note I sold a Focus to a customer last night that was considering either the Sentra, Corolla, or Civic as other options.

Toyota was out really quick due to their A, B, C, D packages that don't allow you to put options a la carte on the vehicle.

The Civic was the same way.

So it came down to the Focus and Sentra. She bought the Focus because of the "quality and solidness" - her words, of the vehicle compared to the Sentra. That and the Nissan dealer down the street is a scam.

I think people are starting to realize that Ford has come around from where they were a decade ago.

Zastava_101

She'll be sorry. There is no way that Focus can last as long as Civic or Corolla or even Sentra.

1999 Black 35th GT

She's a little old lady who drives a total of about 1k per year and is over 80 years old.

Safety was her main concern and right now according to NADA who conducts an annual survey of all vehicles safety wise and customer satisfaction Ford has the safest cars of any company in the world.

And yes the Focus will last just as long as a Corolla, Civic or Sentra.
I've seen a 2000 Focus with over 168,000 miles on it. We sent it to auction about 2-3 weeks ago.

Zastava_101

There is no way Focus can last as lon as Corrolla, Civic, or Sentra. Be realistic, I know you like Ford, but be realistic about this. That Focus with 168,000 miles is one of a kind because not many can even last for 100,000 miles without any problems. Pretty much any Civic or Corolla will last for at least 250,000+ miles without any problems. No wonder Camry and Accord and Corolla and Civic are best seller cars and small cars.

1999 Black 35th GT

Any car with proper maintenance and care will run for well over 150k. Even a Kia. Most people neglect their vehicles or beat the life out of them. Also, a lot of people only wash their cars once or twice during the winter which allows a lot of corrosion to build up on key parts.

If you care for your vehicle, perform maintenance, replace wear and tear items and keep your vehicle clean and protected it will run very long.

There are more imports out there than you think that only last 70k-80k because of poor maintenance.

The 2.0L I4 engine in the Focus has been used for many years and will run just as long as any other vehicle out there.

Zastava_101

Try telling that to my dad about his 1997 Dodge Intrepid 3.5L. Problems started as early as 54,000 miles and now with 90,000 miles is ready for junkyard. He will never buy another domestic car, only Toyota from now on (especially after succes of my mom's 1994 Camry V6).

I would never buy domestic vehicle unless it have V8 under the hood. For 4-cyl and V6 I will go to Toyota.

1999 Black 35th GT

Is he the original owner of the Intrepid?

I could drive off a lot right now with a brand new Toyota, Nissan, Honda, whatever and neglect it and have problems well before hitting the 15k mile mark.

Zastava_101

No, he bought it with 30,000 miles which is not a lot. But my mom is not original owner of Camry either (she bought it with 90,000 miles) and that car runs like brand new.

I'm original owner of F-150 and I'm already not satisfied with brakes. They're not good at all. I heard many people complaining about brakes.

Hollywood_North GT

Well, just to add fuel to the fire, I owned an '86 Toyota vehicle for 17 years and it is still maintained in my immediate family. It has 274,000 miles on it and the engine runs perfectly. A few things have had to be done (replacing alternator, radiator - that sort of thing), but otherwise it just keeps on going, and with nothing more than regular maintenance and proper care.

NO mid to late '80s Ford 4-cylinder would even MAKE IT to 274,000 miles, certainly not without needing major work on the engine.

People aren't as stupid as you seem to think. There's a reason why Toyota is the most profitable car company in the world, and has replaced Ford as #2, while Ford keeps losing money every quarter: Toyota's are better built. Saying it's all hype or propoganda or perception or elves or gremlins or communists or Liberals...or the tooth fairy, is just living in denial.

Just look at Consumer Reports and JD Powers to see who's number one in overall customer satisfaction. Just survey 1000 domestic owners and 1000 Toyota owners and see what they have to say. End of story.

Ford is getting better, I'll give them that. But they have a ways to go. Some of it has to do with still not being fully in touch with the marketplace, and some of it has to do with the model by which we build cars in North America (benefits costs, labor costs, UAW demands, etc.).

But consider:

- The plastics in the new Mustang are cheap, let's not mince words about it, OK?

- The new Ford Fusion - and I do like the design of this car - uses green lighting on the gauges which WENT OUT with the '80s.

- Instead of fixing the remote global window feature on the new Stang, Ford chose to just deactivate it and call it a day. Yeah, that shows real commitment to products and customers, not to mention says they're either too lazy or incompetent to rectify a bit of engineering that import manufacturers have NO TROUBLE making work (please, no more excuses on this one, OK?).

- The new Lincoln Zephyr (read a great review of this car today, by the way) DOES NOT OFFER STABILITY CONTROL AT ANY PRICE (in fact, I'm not sure if any Ford car does).

And the list goes on and on and on...

Again, Ford's getting better (I have no problem owning a new Mustang), but when you look around at the import competition, Ford clearly has a ways to go, and seem to be stubborn or lazy or resistant to putting in 100%. 75% effort isn't enough to get them out of the financial doldrums and compete on the world stage, a stage which is getting more competitive by the year.

1999 Black 35th GT

You wanna play? Okay we'll play.

1. Toyota was called out on why the Sienna failed the rear crash test. Their response: NHTSA doesn't know how to do a test.

2. Toyota failed the side crash test for the Camry and Corolla. What have they done? Nothing!

3. Toyota had over 3.3 million engines that were affected by their sludge issue. What did Toyota do? Made the owners of the vehicles pay for the problems until finally the government forced Toyota to pay the customers back over a year later.

4. The Tacoma has failed the rollover test. What did Toyota do? Ignore it and still pump out the same vehicle.

I can go on with pages of MAJOR quality, build and safety issues on Toyota if you would like.

You wanna talk about cheap. Lets look at the quality of the interior materials of my buddies old Echo. Pieces falling off simply if you bump them. The kickpanel cracking after only a year.

Or how about my father in laws Tundra. Who's bumper is already bent due to the poor location of the tow hitch.

You mention JD Power as a source. Hey, ever bother looking to see who was right up there with Toyota... GASP FORD, MERCURY, and LINCOLN.

You seem to have this idea ingrained in your head as much as the public does about Ford not making quality vehicles. You sit there talking about the 80's. Who was talking about the 80's? Yep, just you!

Plain and simple you have been blinded by your own ignorance. Not a surprise for someone from the media



Oh just a word of advice, you are on a Ford site not a Toyota site.

Zastava_101

Andy, don't take this the wrong way, but you're one who's been blinded by your own ignorance. There is reason why Toyota keep making profit every year and Ford keep losing money every year. Not many people give a darn about rollover or crash test - they care only about how many miles without major problems car will last. You may not care about that, but most of people do. That's why every Toyota car outsold every Ford car (except Mustang) without having to offer employees discount. When was a last time you heard that Toyota's sales are down? Ford's sales were down by over 20% last months, and Fusion alone, no matter how succesful it may be, won't change that. And you're forgeting that Toyota is in foreign country, how do you think Big 3 would do in Japan?

Zastava_101

Andy, here is something for you. You should read it.

Click Me

Click Me

Hollywood_North GT

It doesn't matter, he doesn't want to listen. Instead, he gets mad and immediately starts slinging mud at Toyota (and resorting to attacks against me personally*) without even referencing his allegations - some of which I've heard before - and none of which equate to the quality and safety problems domestic vehicles are renowned for.

For example, he cites Lincoln. My understanding is that the Navigator was recently voted as one of the WORST vehicles on the road for reliability.

Saying that one ought not to speak the truth because this is a Ford site, is simply burying one's head in the sand. I'm a Ford fan, but guess what, a spade is a spade, the world isn't flat, and no amount of flag waving is gonna change that, no matter what anyone wants to believe.

At the end of the day, people vote with their wallets. And it pains me to say, that - Mustang aside - they ain't voting for Ford. That means Ford needs to take notice and work even harder (notice I said they WERE getting better) than they already are.

*About the "media" comment. Buddy, I'm not responsible for your "issues" and neither is the media. Get over it.

Knight

I drive a 1998 Grand Prix GTP currently has 164000 miles and runs perfect. You can't say just cause the one intrepid had problems not to buy an american car... thats just silly