Zastava_101

Yeah, but they don't look the same.
On the other hand, Montego and 500 are identical, Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria are identical, Monterey and Freestar are identical ... OK, OK, maybe not identical, but very similar.

1999 Black 35th GT

Zoran just so you know the Prius is under HEAVY investigation and the 05 Tundras have already been recalled, the Camry failed the side crash test, the corolla failed the side crash test, toyo just had to recall 880,000 of their trucks and suv's for failing ball joints (thats a safety factor there) and then theres the fact of the tacoma failing the rollover test.

I am not an expert at all but I believe that Ford and other domestic sales will begin to rise in the next year or so. People only wear rose colored glasses for so long and will soon start to remove them.

I certainly hope you get the Navigator. I think you would enjoy the vehicle very much

Zastava_101

And they are still best sellers. Both Camry and Corolla are best sellers in their groups (sedans and small sedans) and Prius is World's best selling hybrid.
I know that Camry failed side crash test, but my mom was in accident last year and car was hit on the side. Even though there was $5,000 damage my mom didn't even go to hospital. So maybe there is a lot of damage, but driver was safe.

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I certainly hope you get the Navigator. I think you would enjoy the vehicle very much

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I hope so. I'm giving Ford another chance. This will be my 4th Ford (91 Taurus, 92 Escort, 00 Mustang).

1999 Black 35th GT

Glad to hear your mom was okay! Its always scary to have a loved one in an accident.

I just think sales will drop significantly with American technology on the rise again for toyo.

Remember this information was just released and it will take a while for people to realize this and change their buying habits.

To me safety is of the utmost importance and I think people will ultimately gravitate towards Ford, Subaru, and Honda more so within the next few years. Remember the old addage "what goes up must come down." everything fluctuates and right now I see it as toyo's turn to fall.

I'm glad to hear you will be getting the navigator, they are VERY safe and very beautiful vehicles. Enjoy!

Fordracing200

wow, Toyota looks really bad and their future is downhill...
<!--QuoteBegin-Red Star@June 7, 2005, 10:41 AM
And they are still best sellers. Both Camry and Corolla are best sellers in their groups (sedans and small sedans) and Prius is World's best selling hybrid.
I know that Camry failed side crash test, but my mom was in accident last year and car was hit on the side. Even though there was $5,000 damage my mom didn't even go to hospital. So maybe there is a lot of damage, but driver was safe.
I hope so. I'm giving Ford another chance. This will be my 4th Ford (91 Taurus, 92 Escort, 00 Mustang).

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I dont think people realized toyotas problems yet and the prius is among the few available hybrids, no wonder its the best seller.

holderca1

Yeah, the only others that I can think of is the Honda Insight (very ugly), Honda Civic and Accord (just started making them) and the Ford Escape (SUV and new). It really doesn't say much that it leads hybrid sales, until recently there were only two available.

Zastava_101

Toyota may have problems but most of those problems are not connected with engine. Toyota still makes highest quality cars and SUVs in the world and I don't really see why their future is downhill. Just watch those TV shows where people are going to the jungles and/or deserts. Most of cars they're driving are Toyotas.

1999 Black 35th GT

Actually the highest rated quality cars being made today are Subaru's

Also remember that the 05 F-150's have not had any recalls as of yet and the tundras have.

As for quality overall, from my experience toyo's rate very low. I've had nothing but problems with them. Everything from weak ball joints, to rotors that wore way faster than what they should have, to multiple engine problems. (Don't even get me started on how many times we got stranded with a piece of poop tercel we owned, inluding once on the Tapanzee bridge in NYC!!!!!)

While on the other hand I have never had one issue with any of my Ford's or Subaru's. I have owned 3 Mustangs and 1 Subaru Legacy. My father has owned 2 Taurus's, 5 Subaru's, 2 Escort's, and 1 Mystique. Not one problem from any of them, I kid you not.

Fordracing200

I guess you just arent gonna change, until this site came along i hated everything non-ford, and now i have a better insight towards non-ford products, but u are still stuck on toyota, u must admit they arent doing well, but i fear that u wont change, so i am done witht his conversation, have a good day

Andy, Mercury Mysteique is nicknamed Mercury mistake

Zastava_101

Why would I change?

Robert

Sadly, you don't know what you're talking about, and Toyota's sales figures (vs. Ford's)...JD Powers' customer satisfaction reports...and Consumer Reports' quality ratings prove it.

1999 Black 35th GT

Sadly for you Robert I DO know what I am talking about. Sales figures don't make a vehicle reliable buddy! :nono:

Maybe if you had kept up with CR a little more accuratley you would have noticed that they are currently in the process of retracting toyo's "good" ratings for the camry, corolla, and tacoma due to poor crash test and roolover test for the tacoma.

Then theres the recalls for the 05 tundra already here is one:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1118247896134 :notnice:

Oh and if you check CR further you will see that there have not been any for the 05 F-150.

And the recalls for 880,000 toyota trucks and suvs due to ball joint failure (once again see below:

:notnice:

But I assume from your quip that you hadn't read that.

Then theres the Prius:

:notnice:

Ooops. Let me guess, you didn't read that one either right?

Oh and let me remind you that I am also volunteer firefighter and still fondly remember how toyo stalled for 2 years to release extrication specs to emergency services in the US saying they were trade secrets. Hmmm interesting, no?

So if if you are correct by your statement that would make GM the best and most reliable car company in the world. As we all know they are not. :notnice:

Satisfaction rates have been dropping lately for toyo's too. And if you don't believe how about 3 mechanics that I know who have all worked on toyo's and would not suggest buying newer ones. 2 of them work at their own shop and work on all kinds of vehicles. One of them (Dave) even owns an older late 80's toyo pickup which is a very good vehicle, so he is not biased at all!!!

Don't believe them, how about my brother in law who loves toyo and nissan. He even works at a toyo dealership but says he would not touch a new one of he was given one. Hmm... See a trend going yet?

Or perhaps the tercel that stranded my family and I numerous times, once even on the Tapanzee bridge (a big bridge in NYC, not a fun experience there!)

Or the icing on the cake, the echo my buddy has (or should I say had ) that lost brake power numerous times on the highway, sometimes would not shift higher than second gear, and worst of all sometimes would just plain stall out!!! It was an automatice just in case you were wondering about the stalling. You know what the toyo dealer told him complained? "Oh yeah, we've some complaints about that, but its fixed now." Yeah its really fixed when it happens again and again!

Just because you sell more does not make you better and safer. Thats like saying that selling crack is a better and safer job than say working at a bank because you make more money. Please, don't even bother trying to justify that!

My advice to you is to research more than 2 places and get actual owners, mechanics, and other contacts accounts before you open mouth and insert foot!

southern_stang_girlee

cough cough wn3d: cough cough

1999 Black 35th GT

Good one Lynell!!!

Zastava_101

Well Andy, why are Camry and Corrolla best selling cars then?

<!--QuoteBegin-1999 Black 35th GT@June 8, 2005, 10:45 AM
Maybe if you had kept up with CR a little more accuratley you would have noticed that they are currently in the process of retracting toyo's "good" ratings for the camry, corolla, and tacoma due to poor crash test and roolover test for the tacoma.

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Andy, scoring good at crash tests does not mean that car is a good car.

1999 Black 35th GT

Because people have not come around to realize the problems. And if you had thoroughly read my post you would have noticed that I was talking mostly about the newer toyo's bud. Changes don't happen over night Zoran, they take time. And people will come around!

And as for the crash test, no that does not mean uts the best car but it is a very important, in fact the most important factor! If you want to pack your family into a vehicle that has failed crash test be my guest.

And as you see the toyo's are NOT as reliable as they would like to think. And in case you hadn't realized they comment about them was from an auto expert!!!

To finalize this, since you and Robert seem to be experts on this ( and I don't mean automobiles), I want to ask you this question. Is the old addage "Ignorance is bliss" all its cracked up to be?

Zastava_101

OK, let's see if I understand this. Camry is good seller because people still didn't realize the problem. So I'm gonna guess that the reason why 500 is slow seller is completely opposite? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Andy, I just wanna car that I don't have to drive to mechanic every months. You may never be in an accident in your life. But mechanical problems are gonna happen sooner or latter.

1999 Black 35th GT

The recent camry are the ones with the most problems now Zoran The camry has been around for many years and people get used to assuming they are getting quality. Remember the decline in quality in american vehicles during the late 70's and early 80's. It was a costly mistake as consumers started looking elsewhere for products after a few bad years. But it was a mistake that Ford has taken with a grain of salt and focused on building better vehicles everyday.

The 500 is a brand new vehicle. It would be a totally different issue had this car been around for 5 plus years and the sales were still slow. It takes time for them to catch on. I don't know if you remember when the original Taurus came out in 1986 but a lot of people said it would never sell because it was too rounded. Well after a few years it took off like a rocket and look how wrong they were!

(BTW... Both the Celica and Echo have been axed for 2006 according to Automobile due to slow sales... there will be no replacements for either vehicles)

It will take years but people will start to turn away from toyo, its inevitable if they continue to have these issues, especially in safety. Its a matter of time and thats all it is.

Thats completely fine you want a vehicle that doesn't have mechanical problems every month, neither do I. And you don't have to buy Ford if you don't want to. But I think you should realize that toyo is starting to really have its problems and may not be what you think they are anymore.

And yes you are correct on the issue that every vehicle will have mechanical issues here and there, thats the drawback of technology, nothing is perfect.

Zastava_101

Well Andy, I still think you're wrong about Toyota, but that's your opinion and I respect that. I'm thinking about buying an Navigator so from that you should know that I like Ford and that I'm not saying all this because I'm anti-Ford because I'm not.

1999 Black 35th GT

Thank you and I feel that I am right. And I respect yours as well. I know you're not anti-Ford Zoran. I'm sure you wouldn't be part of the site and a Mustang owner if you were