mustang_sallad

I think the accord is the best hybrid so far. The Escape is pretty sweet, the first time that the hybrid version didn't really compromise performance that much, as opposed to say the hybrid civic. The hybrid escape "delivers similar performance to the v6... ". Now this accord comes along, and its a half second quicker to 60mph than the otherwise top of the line accord. That's cause it uses the same 3L v6, then it puts an electric motor on top, for a gain of 15hp and 20lbs-ft (i'll bet the power curve is quite a bit wider too, as electric motors get their peak torque at 0rpm, see my signature, the accords motor is a lot smaller than the prius's though.)
So that means you get a significantly faster car with significantly better gas mileage. Mileage is estimated at 30/37 vs 21/30 (city/highway). Of course these estimates have been over generous for the hybrids lately, but you get the idea.
Everybody knows that you can't quite expect to get your money's worth in the hybrid as far as fuel savings goes for about 10 years or so. But then you're also paying for a faster car. I hope they offer a coupe version some day.
If they did the exact same thing to the v6 mustang, i'd be all over it. I could finally buy a mustang without being a sell out.
(if they did it to the v8... )

StevenJ

Hybrids are absoultely pointless. You are going to waste more money in buying batteries than you ever would in gas. I'm all for Ethanol fueled vehicles. They are race proven technology that works. Hybrids, that's a big thumbs down for me. darn lefty fuel savers. Can't even figure out that you aren't helping anyone. Want to know what's even more funny? With today's technology in emissions, you could even be considered a greenie hippie if you drive a Ford Excurision. I thank god and whomever developed EFI. That's the true savior from pollution.

Oh yeah, hybrids never deliever on the manufacture's stated milage. They always fall way short.

Zastava_101

I still think Toyota Prius is the best hybrid on the market. For $20,000 you get best quality car in the world (Toyota) and you get 60 mpg. Can't get better than that.

BigBoyBoelts

Um...StevenJ,


EVERY CAR PRODUCED NEVER LIVES UP TO THE MANUFACTURES STATED MILAGE!!!

Car and Driver(I know, I know, not the best mag...) had a topic about this and how the milage listed on all cars sold now are so over inflated that its sad, they list milage in a "perfect" no gravity, zero wind, zero incline/decline world that will never happen!

The hybrids really will not give people that have to drive long distances or on the hwys any advantage cause it takes both motors to run to keep the car at speed but in city driving that is where the gains are. Simply cause the car shuts off the gas motor.

mustang_sallad

Steve, the current situation where fuel savings don't quite make up for the cost of getting the hybrid version is obviously very temporary. Its a new technology, it gets cheaper as more people adopt it. Look at how much a DVD player cost 5 years ago. Something like 500 dollars. Now you can get one at a Drug Store for 50 bucks. Right now the production of components for hybrids is not all that high. In 5 years, when we see the number of hybrid cars go up to about 20 models, they will start to get cheaper.
But apparently that doesn't matter, cause every hybrid model is wait listed. Apparently some people don't only care about their own penny pinching, but actually care about the future of life on this planet. You're annoyed with people who want to save fuel?? Why should you even care if they want to save fuel? All it means is that there will be more fuel for you to burn.
Ethanol is awesome too, very low emissions. But what would be wrong with an ethanol fueled vehicle that automatically shuts off the engine at a stoplight and recaptures braking energy? These are the two main principles of hybrid tech, and please explain to me why they are stupid.
Burning fuel, turning the chemical energy in your tank into kinetic energy of your car, and then losing all that energy as heat in your brakes at the next stop sign, and starting the whole process over again when you accelerate.... That's stupid.

MustangMan311

I agree, Hybrids are useless but they are becoming a part of everyday life. I think that the Escape and Prius are pretty cool though.

mustang_sallad

Another thing is that to for vehicles running on ethanol, or any other alternate fuel, you've gotta get gas stations to sell it. Gas stations would need to renovate for tanks to store the fuel, and many gas stations in cities don't have much space to work with. The beauty of hybrids is that they require no adjustments whatsoever. You drive it just like any other car, fill it up the same way at the same place, gas stations don't need any adjustments. Its just a more efficient version of what we drive now.
I'm convinced that hybrid tech, at least in its mild form (where the car is never moving under electric power alone) will be standard across the industry within 20 years.

Lalo

very good points, Jeff. you cant argue with that!

bring on the hybrid V6 mustang :drive:

scottie1113

I'll be glad to see more hybrids driving around. Anything that saves gas and pollutes less is good in my book. As a kid I got to breathe the air in Los Angeles in the 50's and 60's, and it wasn't pleasant. Tokyo in the 60's was terrible, and Saigon in the 70's was even worse.

Hybrids, hydrogen, or ethanol. They're in our near future. The internal combustion engine as we now know it is going to be almost completely, if not entirely, gone in the next two decades. And I will applaud that.

Hybrids don't mean the end of high performance either. Toyota recently unveiled a hybrid prototype at a European car show. The car had stunning styling and unbelievable performance numbers. If I can find a link to the site where I saw it, I'll post it.

In the meantime, I'll continue to root for the future of alternative energy source vehicles.

Lalo

:w00t:

mustang_sallad

That's probably the Toyota Volta you're talking about:
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html

0-60 in 4 seconds, using a 3.3L V6 and electric motors front and back.

also check out the mitsubishi E-concept:
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/..._concept-e.asp

they say 470 hp, but i don't know if all those horses are available at the same time. I think they just added the peak output of both the gas and electric motors, 270hp and 200hp respectively. But i don't think they both get their peak power at the same rpm, the electric motor probably is strongest at low rpms. But i don't think a mustang crowd would complain about 200hp on tap at low rpm. That just means a crazy wide power band.

Of course these are just concepts that would likely cost quite a lot at this point. But like i said, as electric motors and batteries start seeing service in Accords and Altimas and Camrys and stuff, the cost of making hybrids is gonna get lower and lower.

scottie1113

Yep, that's the site, and that's the car. It's pretty slow, though--I think they quoted 0-60 something like 4.3 secs, and it only gets 31+ mpg on the road. And the styling appeals more to Ferrari and Lambo fans. I love it.

Yes, it's a protype, and yes, it would be expensive to build today, but the point is that much is possible in the very near future. I think hybrids make great multi purpose vehicles. No, I'm not talking about off roading. Just if that the majority of your driving is done in urban areas, and for most of us that's true, you're not going to be using your 300 hp motor to rocket you from light to light and stop sign to stop sign much unless you want to lose your license. Under those conditions, why not take advantage of a hybrid?

When you want to get on the open road and take a long road trip, what's wrong with getting decent mpg? On top of that, with a car like this Toyota concept, ain't nothing gonna touch you when you decide to put your foot in it.

Some of you will flame me for saying this, but if that car were available today at an affordable price, I'd sell my Mustang and buy it in a moment.

Get used to it, kids. It's the future.

Rakshas

Have you guys seen the Lexus Rx400h? something like an extra 35 hp over the standard 330, and better fuel mileage.

mustang_sallad

yup, you got it, 270hp versus 240 or something. And again, while the peak horsepower is higher, the biggest improvement is probably low end torque, wider power band.
Yet another example of the hybrid version being the top of the line model. I hope ford follows that idea with its future hybrids.