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3/24/08, 05:09 PM
#81
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I don't know if I can wait that long to order a vapor in cali. Plus with all these added options that come standard on premiums im being forced to pay more for things I don't need/want. Just like the whole side airbags on the '08's....they make you pay for them cause they are standard now! I hate that airbag tag on the side of the seats I like the clean look without them, makes me want to get my scissors out lol
Im still confused on what I want... I have alloy but was thinking of getting vapor instead.
Can't wait to see the anniversary badges and the vapor cali's!
3/24/08, 05:09 PM
#82
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My reading comprehension is fine. You simply have memory issues.
You stated that stability control is being mandated, and I paraphrase... "by tin hated people" and that it's a "nanny law". Well you are implying that you support ABS being mandated on cars a few posts above. ABS can be viewed as a "nanny" law I guess too. You arguement has more holes in it than a sinking ship.
Stability control systems save lives, either post some data to refute that or quit posting your opinion.
You stated that stability control is being mandated, and I paraphrase... "by tin hated people" and that it's a "nanny law". Well you are implying that you support ABS being mandated on cars a few posts above. ABS can be viewed as a "nanny" law I guess too. You arguement has more holes in it than a sinking ship.
Stability control systems save lives, either post some data to refute that or quit posting your opinion.
3/24/08, 06:58 PM
#86
Legacy TMS Member
Many people really like SAT radio.
I just don't think it should be a 'standard' feature, unless there is an option to 'delete' it from an order.
I don't know what Ford is basing this decision on. The number of cars ordered with it previously? Ease of manufacturing? a big spiff from Sirius?
Looks like the way has been paved for the merger between XM and Sirius. It's a system that isn't going away soon. Still it's a subscriber system and you should have a choice if you want it on your car or not (especially with the antenna Ford uses on the Mustang being so visible)
I just don't think it should be a 'standard' feature, unless there is an option to 'delete' it from an order.
I don't know what Ford is basing this decision on. The number of cars ordered with it previously? Ease of manufacturing? a big spiff from Sirius?
Looks like the way has been paved for the merger between XM and Sirius. It's a system that isn't going away soon. Still it's a subscriber system and you should have a choice if you want it on your car or not (especially with the antenna Ford uses on the Mustang being so visible)
I agree that it should not be standard, and not integrated into any package unless a delete option is available.
3/24/08, 07:24 PM
#87
I've tried BOTH XM and Sirius. They did not impress me one bit. The fugly antennae on the cars are also a major compromise on the styling. A shark-fin or Logitech-reject mouse just sticks out like a sore thumb. I can spot them a mile away but the people that have them try every angle to justify it, from "I can't even see it" or "it doesn't bother me". Well, it bothers me and I don't even like the "whip" AM/FM antennae. It's the 21st century and if Ford can integrate the AM/FM antenna into the defroster grid on a Crown Victoria, they ought to have used that or something even BETTER on their Mustang halo car. In that regard, I despise the hood prop rod with a vengeance.
As for the dead technology, here is why they are already dying on the market:
1). They are competing against web media like streaming videos, TV shows, and movies. The hand-held market is going to the way of iPhone-like systems.
2). If you listen to the satellite radio stations long enough, you find out that it is just one big playlist or multiple playlists. I've experienced several recycled lists just listening to satellite radio over a 1 week span. When I switched to talk shows, I just didn't find any value in the discussions. A few extra cuss words due to lax restrictions are hardly enough to justify the monthly bills. There are lots of stations to choose from but I wouldn't pay for the service. If XM/Sirius were free, I'd definitely use it because it helps when you are traveling and do not want to seek through different stations. HD Radio offers this (to a certain extent) and is a free service.
3). The monthly bills are a nuisance. As if your other utility bills weren't enough, you have to pay to listen to "radio". I know what most pro-satellite radio people will say next, so #4 is a follow-up.
4). Cable TV is being severely impacted by streaming media and P2P services like BT. The future will be in fiber optic services like FiOS or AT&T's variant, so the argument that "well people pay for cable TV" is becoming moot, because cable TV's days are numbered. It makes no sense for me to pay $30 a month for a whole slew of expanded basic channels that I don't watch. I'd like to pick and choose what I want to view (e.g. Sci-Fi, Discovery) at the time I want to see it. Cable TV companies like Time Warner are growing more and more nervous about this new technology.
5). There's no room for expansion with satellite radio. With cars getting Navigation systems and DVD players with LCD screens, satellite radio (audio-only) is going to be phased out for streaming video since you now have a screen or multiple screens. I'd like the ability to glance over at a candlestick chart of DJIA while stuck in traffic or hit a few keys to access select charts for indices or stocks.
Again, if XM/Sirius debuted with force 20 years ago, this would be an entirely different story. Back in the 80s and 90s, you would use a cellphone for talking. In 2008, a cellphone does almost everything.
The major vehicle OEMs are dumping satellite radio on their customers (some are forced-install as part of packages) because they have to justify their investment in the obsolete technology.
Satellite navigation also includes the fugly antenna and is more common on foreign luxury cars. DVD/Sat Navigation systems are useful if you use your personal car for a lot of traveling. If you're like me and prefer to rent a car that gets pummeled by rocks, bugs, and other junk cross-country, then your navigation system isn't going to be useful sitting your garage while you are 1500 miles away. Time to break out the maps or a portable $200 GPS nav unit.
Bottom line is that if you're enjoying satellite radio, all the more power to you. I don't see the value in satellite radio and my friends who did buy into the hype have now canceled their subscriptions for various reasons.
As for the dead technology, here is why they are already dying on the market:
1). They are competing against web media like streaming videos, TV shows, and movies. The hand-held market is going to the way of iPhone-like systems.
2). If you listen to the satellite radio stations long enough, you find out that it is just one big playlist or multiple playlists. I've experienced several recycled lists just listening to satellite radio over a 1 week span. When I switched to talk shows, I just didn't find any value in the discussions. A few extra cuss words due to lax restrictions are hardly enough to justify the monthly bills. There are lots of stations to choose from but I wouldn't pay for the service. If XM/Sirius were free, I'd definitely use it because it helps when you are traveling and do not want to seek through different stations. HD Radio offers this (to a certain extent) and is a free service.
3). The monthly bills are a nuisance. As if your other utility bills weren't enough, you have to pay to listen to "radio". I know what most pro-satellite radio people will say next, so #4 is a follow-up.
4). Cable TV is being severely impacted by streaming media and P2P services like BT. The future will be in fiber optic services like FiOS or AT&T's variant, so the argument that "well people pay for cable TV" is becoming moot, because cable TV's days are numbered. It makes no sense for me to pay $30 a month for a whole slew of expanded basic channels that I don't watch. I'd like to pick and choose what I want to view (e.g. Sci-Fi, Discovery) at the time I want to see it. Cable TV companies like Time Warner are growing more and more nervous about this new technology.
5). There's no room for expansion with satellite radio. With cars getting Navigation systems and DVD players with LCD screens, satellite radio (audio-only) is going to be phased out for streaming video since you now have a screen or multiple screens. I'd like the ability to glance over at a candlestick chart of DJIA while stuck in traffic or hit a few keys to access select charts for indices or stocks.
Again, if XM/Sirius debuted with force 20 years ago, this would be an entirely different story. Back in the 80s and 90s, you would use a cellphone for talking. In 2008, a cellphone does almost everything.
The major vehicle OEMs are dumping satellite radio on their customers (some are forced-install as part of packages) because they have to justify their investment in the obsolete technology.
Satellite navigation also includes the fugly antenna and is more common on foreign luxury cars. DVD/Sat Navigation systems are useful if you use your personal car for a lot of traveling. If you're like me and prefer to rent a car that gets pummeled by rocks, bugs, and other junk cross-country, then your navigation system isn't going to be useful sitting your garage while you are 1500 miles away. Time to break out the maps or a portable $200 GPS nav unit.
Bottom line is that if you're enjoying satellite radio, all the more power to you. I don't see the value in satellite radio and my friends who did buy into the hype have now canceled their subscriptions for various reasons.
A few ponts:
I've had Sirius for over 2 years and quit listening to regular old radio within a few weeks of getting Sirius. The programming content is great and it's FANTASTIC to have commercial free music. Yes some of the stations like the pop stations have play lists, but I've listend to others for weeks without hearing a repeat. The Garage is one of my favorites.
I do not have the time or ambition to screw around with downloading programming into an iPod. My iPod sits around un-used. Sirius provides all the music content I need with ZERO effort on my part other than spending 5 minutes to sign up for the service.
It's not only me, the OEM Sirius in my wife's Nissan crapped out and she's driving me crazy to get it fixed as she can no longer stand regular radio.
More and more of my friends have signed up for Sirius or XM. As far as I know none of them have dropped their satelitte radio subscriptions. The continued increase in Siruis & XM subscriptions backs this up. The fact that in 5 years they've gone from 0 to 20 million subscriptions is remarkable.
Sirius is VERY cheap, especially compared to cable and what you end up paying for those various cell phone services. To get mass distribution of decent quality video and even audio though the cell networks is going to require a major capital investment by the cell companies, something they are not in a position to do right now given their financial problems. I can't wait for Sprint to go belly up.
Sirius already has satellite video in operation.
Satellite broadcast of widely used content (such as their program channels which are listened to by millions of people) is far more efficient a delivery vehicle than to go though cell networks which require point to point info delivery. I can't imagine how the cell companies will be able to cost competively deliver this type of broadcast content given the expense of maintaining all their ground based equipment.
There are almost NO satellite NAV systems that have external antennas. A few of the Euro cars did years ago when they first came out.
I find the Sirius or XM antennas far less an eyesore than that UGLY front fender mounted whip antenna on Mustangs.
What needs to happen is for cell phones to incorporate Sirius/XM recievers in them.
I have both the Ford OEM NAV in my Lincon LS and a high priced Garmin NUVI 660. I've checked out many NAV systems. The Denso system in the LS is one of the best and IMHO better than any portable NAV I've tried.
3/24/08, 10:41 PM
#88
Cobra R Member
ABS, TC, SC don't make any difference anyway cause most people think that since their car has them they could just check their brains at the door when they get in the car and just end up driving more recklessly in rain/snow.
I lived upstate NY for the last 10 years and drove an ‘88GT Conv, '93 GT Conv, & ’06 4.0(NO ABS/TC) through the worst blizzards around and what kind of cars were strewn through the ditches every time.. $50k+ Mercedes, BMWs, Audis, Infinitys, & of course as many 4x4’s.
I lived upstate NY for the last 10 years and drove an ‘88GT Conv, '93 GT Conv, & ’06 4.0(NO ABS/TC) through the worst blizzards around and what kind of cars were strewn through the ditches every time.. $50k+ Mercedes, BMWs, Audis, Infinitys, & of course as many 4x4’s.
Last edited by cinque35; 3/26/08 at 08:46 PM.
3/25/08, 07:57 AM
#89
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like i said, if you like satellite radio or not, it's just an opinion....It's not going anywhere and I just think it's funny, because I have seen some of the heated debates on this forum and metroplex is the resident Cliff Clavin of the Mustang Source....I love it.
3/25/08, 08:28 AM
#90
Legacy TMS Member
I can agree that I don't like many things forced by making them law, but given the resistance of car manufacturers to include much needed safety features like SC on more affordable cars, I'm not to upset about it, like seat belt and helmet laws. On the latter rather than having laws forcing you to wear a seatbelt or a helmet, I think it should be perfectly acceptable to deny insurance coverage if the cause of your injuries are a result of not wearing a seatbelt or helmet and in the case of the former it would be preferable if insurance companies were allowed to tack on monster premiums for vehicles not equipped with ABS/TCS/SC it would accomplish the same thing without forcing anybody to have or do something they dont really want.
3/25/08, 10:05 AM
#91
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The DOJ approved the merger (which was announced over a year ago) but the FCC still has to give its blessing. Satellite radio will have to compete with Apple and I don't see satellite radio lasting very long overall regardless of who takes the reigns.
I agree that it should not be standard, and not integrated into any package unless a delete option is available.
I agree that it should not be standard, and not integrated into any package unless a delete option is available.
3/25/08, 01:23 PM
#92
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I can agree that I don't like many things forced by making them law, but given the resistance of car manufacturers to include much needed safety features like SC on more affordable cars, I'm not to upset about it, like seat belt and helmet laws. On the latter rather than having laws forcing you to wear a seatbelt or a helmet, I think it should be perfectly acceptable to deny insurance coverage if the cause of your injuries are a result of not wearing a seatbelt or helmet and in the case of the former it would be preferable if insurance companies were allowed to tack on monster premiums for vehicles not equipped with ABS/TCS/SC it would accomplish the same thing without forcing anybody to have or do something they dont really want.
3/25/08, 01:25 PM
#93
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I don't see it being so popular as to warrant making it a standard item on the Mustang. If there is to be no choice I do hope they find a less obvious antenna for it.
3/26/08, 11:18 AM
#94
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A few ponts:
I've had Sirius for over 2 years and quit listening to regular old radio within a few weeks of getting Sirius. The programming content is great and it's FANTASTIC to have commercial free music. Yes some of the stations like the pop stations have play lists, but I've listend to others for weeks without hearing a repeat. The Garage is one of my favorites.
I find these antennas equally distasteful. But even worse, I haven’t got a clue why they stuck those twin window washer squirt nozzles right in the middle of the hood! Cowl or wiper arm mounted squirt nozzles have been around for decades. What the heck were they thinking???
In my opinion all three (four) should be gone.
Thank god Navigation is still an option, I would take it for free if you could shut the **** screen off when you were not using it, but I will never pay $2000 for a feature that serves almost ZERO function for me. Yes I have and have had automotive GPS's for years. Unless I was visiting new addresses daily I couldn't justify paying for an automotive GPS Navigation system that will almost never be used. Again, it is that "SCOURGE OF THE POOR" thing.
Last edited by Black GT500; 3/26/08 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Clarification
3/26/08, 07:51 PM
#95
So I guess your posting here via the internet is just an illusion.
No telephone?
No cable or satellite TV?
No electricity in your house either?
You must not have insurance on your house & car.
And you must have never visited a doctor or dentist.
No telephone?
No cable or satellite TV?
No electricity in your house either?
You must not have insurance on your house & car.
And you must have never visited a doctor or dentist.
Look...Fanblades available only on the base GT?
3/26/08, 08:54 PM
#97
Mach 1 Member
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You are confusing necessities with entertainment. Don't feel too bad about it, that is a common symptom of "SCOURGE OF THE POOR"
Nope I do not have cable or satellite television. I watch HDTV over the airwaves with a common antenna for free.
Like I said I refuse to pay for subscription services, so we are clear I am talking monthly payments for entertainment, that does not include utilities or health care.
If you want to keep pretending you can't distinguish the difference go ahead, but your confusion doesn't change my statement or position.
Nope I do not have cable or satellite television. I watch HDTV over the airwaves with a common antenna for free.
Like I said I refuse to pay for subscription services, so we are clear I am talking monthly payments for entertainment, that does not include utilities or health care.
If you want to keep pretending you can't distinguish the difference go ahead, but your confusion doesn't change my statement or position.
3/27/08, 07:16 PM
#98
No confusion on my part, you did not distinguish between necessities and luxuries, all you said was: "I DO NOT WANT ANY SERVICE I HAVE TO PAY A FEE FOR"
I actually agree with you that the "Phone Company Model" of a monthly bill has insidiously allowed many companies to bleed people of $$ they can't afford to spend. However it's been my experience that people with good paying jobs are more likely to fall into the trap of saddling themselves with all those montly bills they don't need.
Over my lifetime I have been extremely diligent in staying out of the monthly bill trap, which has put me into a position where the $12.78 / mo for Sirius (pay up front for 11 mo, get the 12th free) is pocket change and will have no measurable impact on my financial future. And, I consider Sirius a bargain, given the available programming. On the other hand I feel cable TV has become an over priced rip off.
Then again, most people would consider an impractical gas hog like a GT-500 an irresponsible waste of money.
I actually agree with you that the "Phone Company Model" of a monthly bill has insidiously allowed many companies to bleed people of $$ they can't afford to spend. However it's been my experience that people with good paying jobs are more likely to fall into the trap of saddling themselves with all those montly bills they don't need.
Over my lifetime I have been extremely diligent in staying out of the monthly bill trap, which has put me into a position where the $12.78 / mo for Sirius (pay up front for 11 mo, get the 12th free) is pocket change and will have no measurable impact on my financial future. And, I consider Sirius a bargain, given the available programming. On the other hand I feel cable TV has become an over priced rip off.
Then again, most people would consider an impractical gas hog like a GT-500 an irresponsible waste of money.
3/27/08, 07:35 PM
#99
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3/27/08, 07:53 PM
#100
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