RCSignals

That's the way to sell it. Have a world class race driver drive like he shouldn't in the snow so he spins out. Then show him not spinning out with it engaged.

Typical infomercial selling. People fall over it.

metroplex

Audi's ESP can be disabled (A3 through R8). Mazda's DSC can be disabled. Subaru's VDC can be disabled. The same goes for BMW. Need I continue? Many ESP/DSC systems CAN be shut off. Those that cannot be shut off are usually found on ****-ant econo boxes or average boring sedans. The Mustang's Traction Control can be disabled, what makes you think Ford has any intention of forcing DSC to be enabled permanently on a sports car/performance platform?

Your arguments are based on the same illogical thoughts as those that opposed seat belts and airbags. Side airbags are the MAIN reason why the S197 convertible has received TOP safety ratings. Last time I checked, all of FIA's racing venues along with NASCAR has mandated safety restraints.

Not everyone is a world class rally driver like the average internet macho man/commando, so having DSC made available to the average person is going to save lives. While driver error may be the root cause of rollovers, it can be easily prevented/reduced by having DSC control the brakes for the appropriate wheels. I can see that you still do not understand the concept of DSC and are just basing your comments on opinion. Granted low tire pressure resulting in tire delamination and blowouts are the root cause of the Explorer fiasco, had they been equipped with DSC, the system could still have control over 3 of the remaining tires to try and prevent a spin or rollover. The same could be said for vehicles with a high CG.

The only thing I am wishing for is for Ford to start implementing DSC on ALL of its vehicles ASAP instead of waiting for 2009-2010. The question isn't if it will be available as a STANDARD FEATURE, but rather WHEN it will be made available as a standard feature on every car

However, I feel TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems) are a waste mainly because they have a limited battery life and are a burden on those maintaining the vehicle. DSC would be an almost invisible system to the driver until the sh*t hits the fan and does not require additional maintenance.

RCSignals

You didn't read my post. Many of the systems that can be turned off reportedly have overrides which turn themselves back on. Apparently some of the German systems are such.

and no it is not the same as seat belts or safety restraints. At all.

It has nothing to do with internet Macho men/commandos. You have no idea what I understand or don't understand wrt DSC. Don't make assumptions.

You cannot and have not denied that the root cause of rollovers is driver error.
It is also an opinion that in the Explorer cases (which were few) DSC could still have control over 3 of the remaining tires to try and prevent a spin or rollover. A driver with the proper reaction could also have done the same. Many have with a blowout at speed, far more often than Explorers had problems.

Yes TPMS is a waste, and another example of NANNY law.

I'm not saying DSC is bad. I think it should be an option. We won't have that choice because of NANNY. We must be protected from ourselves

Lets not do something that might ensure people know how to drive or how to react in an emergency situation

hatchttu

'

I agree with this,. why mandate things that add cost and weight to the car to be reactive to a driver, and not make part of getting a license that you have to take a driving course that teaches you how to keep from getting in that position in the first place. and we should have to renew this course every x number of years. We seem as a society to make it easier on ourselves to skirt repsonsibility for our actions of lack thereof.

05fordgt

Hey RC, why don't you like DSC? It will help you out in a situation that you cannot control manually. In a declining situation where you can be hurt badly, you need all the help you can get to get the car under control.

RCSignals

Why is it generally accepted as being mandated?
Why do people assume this system is failsafe and the last answer?

I didn't say I didn't like it, I said it should be an option.

I don't believe it's a necessity for the majority of drivers. It's another case of the greater number being forced into accepting something to control what a minority cannot.
There isn't a problem that needs to be 'fixed'
Who wins from this? Lawyers, manufacturers, electrical engineers.

Driver education and training is the answer. Even with a DSC equipped vehicle.

We have TPMS and DSC because people such as in the Explorer example (and most of the Van examples) can't accept personal responsibility for a situation that was created by themselves.

V10

Ford's Advance Track stability system is great and is something that the Mustang should have available on it. Advance Track is an effective but very unobtrusive system and is better than the stability systems from most other manufacturers. It is one of Ford's hidden gems that gets no recognition or respect.

I've experienced Advance Track both in snow and ice and on a large wet skid pad where I was able to test the limits with Advanctrack on and off. It is one of those things that can save your rear end. If it accomplishes that goal just once during the life of the vehicle, it's worth it.

RCSignals

and that's why it should be offered as an option.

Can you explain the difference between the Ford Advance Track system and the DSC from others?

05fordgt

The majority of drivers? Please be realistic!! Last time I checked the majority of drivers didn't have the driving talents of Michael Schumacher, Jeff Gordon, Tom Kristensen (Audi R10 driver), Bernt Schneider (MB DTM driver and one of the best), the late Colin McRae, The Stig, or any other pro! RC, don't take this the wrong way, but I doubt you are as talented a driver as a professional in ANY type of major auto racing. If you were, you would be driving for a team in Europe and wouldn't have time for these boards! DSC will save you in a bad situation, and it has been proven!. Heck even the pros have admitted to how advanced the system is for most drivers who don't have their skill level and ability. They showed the F430 around Fiorano. With the system on and the car being driven hard, the car wouldn't go overboard. When they turned it off, and drove the same speed, the car's tail was all over the track!

Another example of people's talents. Just look at the auto magazines. When they want to test a group of fast cars on a race track, they get a pro, not one of their own drivers. WHY? Because they are better, and know how to handle a car at the limit. Motor Trend used Bryan Herta (I believe) a few years ago to test an Enzo, Carerra GT and Ford GT. No one else drove them for the tests. Danica Patrick drove the exotics last year when they did their test of cars (Lamborghini, GT3 RS Porsche, Z06, Viper).

It just make me crazy that people come on auto forums, and think they can drive a car better without the stabilty control turned on.

metroplex

Nicely said, Jeff!!

crazyhorse

That is the exact reason I did not order it on mine. I hate the little turtle shell.

RCSignals

Calm down Jeff. Take a look again at what you've written. Since when does every driver need to be a Professional of the kind you list?

and yes, again re read what I said about the majority. You've misinterpreted it.

Drivers do need to be educated, better educated. Ive said that. they don't need to be 'Professional driver's. I've never said that I am a Professional level driver, but then again I've never had a situation I couldn't handle. Why? Because I've had some training, and it really isn't 'difficult' If it's that difficult for someone they shouldn't be issued a license.

Can't wait for self driving cars


Again, stability control should be an OPTION. that's it. We don't have that choice unfortunately.

max2000jp

The majority of drivers cannot control a car in a panic situation. That's why defensive driving classes should be taught in my opinion. These systems are there to protect people like you, who think they are Micheal Shumacher. They are proven to work, so take off your "tin hat".

max2000jp

Don't waste your breath. You are arguing with the kind of mentality that I see all the time at the race track. Guys that think they are pro drivers and then spin out or post faster laps with stability control ON.

The majority of stability control systems have on/off switches. If you don't like it, turn it off. Simple as that.

RCSignals

Where have I said I think I'm Micheal Shumacher? I haven't.

You obviously have a high opinion of your self and your own abilitites. Save your arrogance for someone else.

Get off your high horse.

max2000jp

No high horse here. I was simply trying to prove my point which is that think that you are better than an electronic safety system. The fact of the matter is that unless you are a professional driver, you will benefit from the system. I've never mentioned anything about my abilities, so quit trying to start an arguement.

If the system saves you or a loved one from an accident, it IS worth it. The same goes for any safety system. You are the only person refuting the effictiveness of stability systems. They work, end of story.

RCSignals

No it was you who posted being antagonistic.

It's obvious you are expressing your own opinion of people who don't like the systems and projected that toward me without reading what I actually wrote.
Practice comprehension.

I'm also not alone in my opinion, a few others have agreed, but then they actually read my post(s).

Most of the rest who agree will typically remain silent, for now.

max2000jp

My post was mainly sarcastic, but that doesn't convey over the internet. Your "opinion" refutes many sources that state it works to prevent accidents. Either you are a Pro Driver or study vehicle dynamic for a living to have this type of insight.

I read your initial posts on stability systems and immediately picked up that you have no clue how the systems work. I've driven many cars with stability control and most are defeatable by a switch. The only time I switch the system off is at the race track. On the street, you won't trigger the system unless you push the car too hard.

-BMW: Fully Defeatable via DSC switch
-Audi/VW: Fully Defeatable via ESP switch
-Porsche: Fully Defeatable via switch
-Nissan: Fully Defeatable via VSC switch
-Vette: Two modes for Active Handling; Competition or off
-Mercedes: Switch defeats ESP to a certain extent.

As you can see, if you don't like it, switch it off. You already have to do this with TC on our cars.

metroplex

Defensive driving should be mandatory, but even then you still need room to maneuver and correct a spin - something that may not be available in bad weather especially in medium to heavy traffic. That is why Dynamic Stability Control works well as an additional aid or tool to assist the driver. Many vehicles that come with DSC allow the DSC to be defeated via a button or switch. Only a few cannot have this function turned off and they are generally econo-boxes/grocery getters. Cars like the Mustang would definitely have a switch for DSC, so you can put away the tin foil hat and stop the Chicken Little rehearsals.

Tiff Needell was unable to correct the spin in his Jaguar trying to avoid that third pylon or obstacle. He was in the Formula 1 scene years ago and drives a wide variety of high end supercars. If he couldn't have corrected the Jaguar in that situation, I seriously doubt the average Internet macho man could do it.

V10

On snow, ice and even rain it's fairly easy to trigger most systems.

Unless Nissan has made a change to their system, their's is not fully defeatable. The switch just changes the threshold of where their system kicks in.