JZInternet

I know we have talked a little bit about this in the past but being a bunch of us are in the market for an 05 soon I figured it may be useful. Here is a pretty interesting Edmunds article I came across. This writer from edmunds.com went undercover as a car salesman for 3 months. Pretty cool read... It may give you some insight and save you from getting taken.

I seen another site (carbuyingtips.com) as it was mentioned on this forum before, but this was the first time I have been to the Edmunds site. Pretty cool how they show what other people are paying and suggest a fair price between msrp and invoice. Might be a good one to bookmark come purchase time for the new stang.


Jason

crawFord Mustang

I'm glad you brought up this article again. It's a long read but well worth it. I recognized a lot of things that I had suspected when I bought my last new car 8 years ago. This article reaffirmed those suspicions.

It's gonna be real hard to bulldoze your way through the BS that the dealer will be telling you when it comes to negotiating price. Mostly because they know you want the car, and worst of all, YOU know you want the car. Remember to stand strong! There will be plenty of other Mustangs at plenty of other dealers for many years to come. It always pays to do your homework.

ZERO

great article so far. the boss just showed up and i gotta get some drawings done. can't wait to read the rest. excelent find JZI!

B)

SickofMyVWAlready

Great read! One other piece of advice I'd add is when you're ready to buy, walk into the dealership with "The Folder", a selection of car comparisons and information regarding prices, etc. That's what I did when I bought my last car (Jetta 1.8T... ), and the salesman immediately quoted me $100 under invoice. I THEN explained that I already had financing in place through my bank.

I assume he figured that the amount of commission he'd make on a quick sale to an informed consumer was better than trying to play games for hours with somebody that was obviously willing to shop around. Better to get the quick sale (in and out of the dealer in well under 1 hour) and wait for a less knowledgeable customer to pounce on.

Granted, the car's a lemon. :bang:
But I don't think the salesman had anything to do with that. And this just gives me the excuse to buy the pony next spring!

JZInternet

The salesman probably say as they see you walk in. "Oh NO this guy has got a folder with him he is yours.. I take this other guy.." lol

That's really good advice. I think I read that on car buying tips at one point too.

I have a question for you guys (particularly the salesman). If he got his VW for $100 under invoice, wouldn't I be better off skipping the employee discount since A-plan is 2% over invoice (correct?) ? Or is it possible to use A-plan and go less than that. I guess I'll find out when I go to edmunds to get price quotes from all the dealers in the area. Any Ideas?

Jason

SickofMyVWAlready

LOL, JZ...I think you're right. Now that you mention it, I remember when I first made it into the dealership, I was standing around on the floor for a few minutes while salesmen glanced and walked right by me. No kidding.

Edit: By the way, I'm sure my getting the Jetta at that low of a price wasn't just due to the folder in my hands...there are an awful lot of Jettas in any given VW lot. I'm sure there were other powers at work too. Plus this was during the time when France and Germany were under boycott pressure from US consumers (the whole Iraq hoopla). With that said, they were moving a lot of cars when I picked mine up. But I wouldn't think you'll see the same kind of deals with the '05 Stang any time soon.

kevinb120

That guy is a worthless schmuck.

scottie1113

kevin, why do you say that? He revealed some intersting practices that we all know exist and offered some darned good advice on doing your homework before buying a car. I thought the article was very useful when I first read it.

kevinb120

Its all spun, the guy didnt have a job and drove a $100 car at the time of hire. Theres SO much spin in the article, although the typical Japanese import dealer is pretty shady.

Wombert

yeah kevin, why do you say that. he wasn't even bashing salesmen, as he wrote that they do what they do to earn a living and get money for their families because they are paid on a commission basis...

scottie1113

BTW, I've been in sales and sales management for over 22 years, including a brief period when I sold Fords. Nothing in his article was a revelation to me. I have nothing against anyone making a profit, nor a salesman making a commission (obviously) but I really don't like shady tactics from anyone.

houtex

I do computer & telephone work for car at a few dealerships here in town. I read that article. While I don't take everything the guy says for granted, I have seen the Japanese dealership thing first hand. It's farily accurate. And note that not all dealerships work that way, but except for a certain brand, this is pretty much the way it works. They got to make money or they disappear. It's kind of a shame, really...

Cars and houses are about the only things that you're EXPECTED to negotiate over. You don't go into a Best Buy and say "well, it says 16.99 for this CD, but I'll give you 11.99." They'd just laugh and walk away. But if one were to go in to, oh, say, a Ford dealership, "try on" a Mustang, and then pay sticker and drive off, well, that's just CRAZY!!!

Kevin, being a dealership man, of course thinks the guy's an hiney. I don't blame him. An article like that, and the internet, is really hurtin' profits, and making dealerships look like the evil things they really aren't. They're just stuck with the system they've got, and so are you.

Or so the dealership guys I work with say. They really dinna like "the informed." (Dat dut DAAAAAAHHHHH...) [where's that music comin' from?]

So it doesn't bother me that Kev feels that way. I would too. And so would you. Deny it and you're silly. Or workin' for Saturn...

kevinb120

Not really, our customers in this region are too well informed. Within 30 miles there is hardly a home thats older then 10 years old, and we are in the technology corridor. Plus we follow full-disclosure techniques that will become the law in a couple years. Just about every instance is a worst senario salesperson vs a super naive customer BTW, I do the internet sales department B)

We are the modern dealer however- a Honda dealer in-town would be more apt to four-square and change details on contracts, etc, and have a 'flooded' floor with 40-60 salespeople. For some reason, from personal experience, this behavior is very common on average-priced imports(toys, hondas, mitsus, etc).

BEK355

If it keeps up with everyone wanting to pay invoice, there aren't going to be any salesman walking by you. There aren't going to be a any salesman. You're going to have to wait on yourself. Maybe some people would like that, but have you been to a department store lately and tried to get someone to help you. Much less an informed salesperson who can really help you make up your mind. And that's just trying to buy a toaster or a new shirt. Just think what it will be like trying to pick out a $30k car with no help.
I think it is funny(not really) when people get mad at an uninformed car salesman. " I want you to kiss my hiney and know the answer to all my questions, oh and I will only pay your cost". Well, get used to it. Because if everyone expects to pay invoice, then dealers won't be able to pay for quality people and the car buying experience will be as bad as going to Sears.
Rant off.

BEK355

The salesman probably say as they see you walk in. "Oh NO this guy has got a folder with him he is yours.. I take this other guy.." lol

That's really good advice. I think I read that on car buying tips at one point too.

I have a question for you guys (particularly the salesman). If he got his VW for $100 under invoice, wouldn't I be better off skipping the employee discount since A-plan is 2% over invoice (correct?) ? Or is it possible to use A-plan and go less than that. I guess I'll find out when I go to edmunds to get price quotes from all the dealers in the area. Any Ideas?

Jason [/b][/quote]
A plan is below invoice. Please see the X plan thread where Kevin posted an invoice showing A plan price as compared to invoice.

GMconvert

I read through that whole article and found it fascinating, however I certainly don't take it to mean that every dealer has practices akin to that certain Japanese dealership. In fact, I've had really great experiences with car dealers in the past (well, one lousy one, but I just walked away from that one without being a jerk about it.)

I understand that car salesmen are trying to earn a living. When I walk into a dealership I don't expect expect them to know inside details about the car I was buying; I left that up to inside contacts at the manufacturer and suppliers. I just expected the sales staff to be knowledgeable enough about the product to answer basic questions, friendly folks, and honest enough to not lie to me about features the car has in order to make a same-day sale (I had one guy do that to me). I must say I've found plenty of great salesmen during my travels. The man I bought my Trans Am from in particular was so awesome, I referred him to my friends and family. My parents alone have since bought five cars from him and are shopping for their sixth right now. He would call me with weekly updates when my order was in, let me know when the car was preferenced, check its status on the factory update every Wednesday...he was great.

To me the buying experience is more important than squeezing every last dime out of the dealers -- as long as the deal is fair for both sides, I'm cool with that part of it. I figure if I need to squeeze for every penny, I'm probably in over my financial head.

ManEHawke

Kevin, how many car's have you sold at MSRP? I'm just curious if you regularly or ever meet those type of people for a normal mass produced car.

BEK355

GMconvert, thank you for your comments. You are the kind of person that reminds me of why I like to be in a service business. Many dealerships today strive to provide the kind of service that you mention. Unfortunately, there are still bad dealers, and bad customers. Hopefully, the good ones on both sides will be able to find each other and continue to make buying a dream car the fun experience it should be.

sajawebb

I'd like to give my salesman a great deal without getting ripped off. I'm not rich and I don't want to make my salesman rich. I do ok and I'd like to give the next guy an even break as well. I wish there was a formula to determine what would be a fair and honest profit for the salesman/dealership, like there is for tipping my waiter. I mean if I get good service I always tip between 15% and 20% (closer to 20% usually). Salesman is there a formula???

JZInternet

I hate to be cruel to all the car salesman out there, but for the car buyer that's not such a bad thing is it?. What would be wrong with buying a car like buying anything else. Go to the car store go up to the front desk and buy the car you want. Or to avoid all this hassle, why isn't there just a set price for a vehicle. The dealer gets a cut, the salesman or consultant get his cut (or just pay them by the hour) and no one gets cheated. You're right though, it may eventually come to that. The internet is going to make everything more competitive--not just car sales though. Even more as the years go by and more people do their shopping online.

Edit: As far as questions go I really don't have any. I know what I want and if I need more info there are always brochures. No dealer has really ever told me anything about a car that I didn't already know. But that's just me.

I guess I could live with buying a car at sears instead of talking with a salesman that pretends to be my friend, if it meant saving me a couple thousand dollars. Sure there are a lot of honest salesman, but you can't guarantee that they are. Why take a chance? I have to say I am not to worried about my salesmans commission. He is worring enough about that himself. I try to get the best deal that I can. If they weren't making any money they would'nt sell it to you for that price.

Just being honest...


Jason