Kahdir

I agree :yes:

Besides, I rather have a sleeper like the ol' 5.0 LXs

bob

Well I hope Ford can wait til 07 to come out with a Mach. Any sooner and I wont be able to afford a nice fat down payment and I'll miss out again.

as for SE's you got plenty of other mustangness to toss around, Boss, Shelby, Cobrajet, Bullitt, etc.

That said I would like to see it this way as a regular model line up

GT - 300hp

Mach 1 - 350hp

Cobra - 450hp

As for SE's
Boss - 400hp live axle car offering Cobra acceleration and grip but without the IRS or fancy cobra amenities.

Shelby - 500hp fully loaded cobra

Greywolf

Boss 350 spring05

Mach 1 400 spring07

Dan

I also agree, the GT does not need more. But, there definately needs to be a Mach 1 level car at around 350hp or so especially if the new Cobra is over 450hp.

428CJ

Boss's where always racers. IF they make a Boss it needs to come with IRS. I think it should be a totally racing dedicated model just like the Mach 1. The Mach 1 should be live axel, and racing dedicated with a shifter on the floor. (no console between the seats) and the Boss would be the same except a dedicated handler. Both could even have the same HP and price, just different goals..

The Cobra is basically the same as the Boss except all the toys, and a lot more HP. It's the baddest Mustang as it's always been.

The Shelby, should NOT be a loaded Cobra. THe Shelby should be a racer as well. It will have the BADDEST engine, and will be the lightest of all the cars. Should way less than 3200lbs, and have the 600HP V-10.

That's my ideas..

BlackRiderX

I tell you what, I'm probably the only one hoping for a stripes and 18 inch wheel package to a regular GT. That would put me over the edge to make me buy one.

Dan

+ a shaker hood scoop, mach 1 badges and a power increase...........for me please.

Robert

Just, please, not tooooo many styling do-dads

97RedSnake

I wasn't arguing that 300hp isn't enough for the GT. I think 300hp is fine for the GT, as long as there is something between the GT and Cobra, with a minimum of 350hp. My point was simply, there is a demand for a SE model right out of the gate.

The point has been made numerous times that having anything beyond the GT at the start of production would take away from the GT's sales. While this could happen to a certain extent, Ford would still be making more money on the SE models, and this profit would still come from the Mustang line-up.

I also know there is the idea that if the GT is the only thing around at first, maybe buyers who want a SE or Cobra will buy one and then trade in for a SE/Cobra when the time comes. My point was to make it known that there are quite a few of us who want a new Mustang, but 300hp isn't getting us in the showroom. No matter how good the car looks, or how nice the interior is. We want more power, and we will wait for a SE/Cobra. So, releasing one sooner rather than later makes the most sense financially for Ford in this case.

Also, there are alot of f-body owners who might be tempted over if a SE model was present early on. But, if Ford waits too long, Chevy may get a new Camaro out the door and alot of those potential new customers will head back to Chevy for their new muscle.

Sorry for the long post. Just started rambling.

PaperTarget

For years Mustang has outsold Camaro/Firebird. Not because of HP or TQ. Camaro/Firebird are gone, even though they had more power for years over Mustang. 300 HP is plenty for MOST people. In fact, the V6 sells more than the V8. That should tell you that HP and TQ don't matter where this car is concerned. The "we" you refer to is a FEW enthusiasts like myself that want more HP. That's what the aftermarket is for and why Ford pushes FRPP and SVT for those who want more. Ford is here to make money on these cars that are built FOR THE MASSES. The masses don't want 400 HP dragstrip cars. Most F-body owners are blindly loyal to GM and will push their dead Camaros/Firebirds around before buying a Mustang. They will wait until 2007 when the Camaro returns or buy another GM product. I don't think Ford will miss them (they never did before).

GMconvert

I'm going to have to side with 97RedSnake here...like him, I'm in a position to buy a new car, prefer something a little more exclusive than the GT, but in no way can afford a $40k+ Cobra. I like a little bit of exclusivity over the standard GT -- there are already a million Mustangs in my town -- and I'm not a heavy modder, so I'd prefer some of those extras to come from the factory and be covered by the manufacturer. I'd also prefer a bit more of a power bump up from my Ram Air Trans Am. Right now it's pretty close to the standard '05 GT in terms of performance numbers.

I think the numbers on the '05 GT are great right where they are -- 300 hp for the GT is perfect for most buyers. But there are some who would like a bit more, but can't afford to go whole-hog with the Cobra. Those people would probably be willing to pay an intermediate price to FoMoCo for an SE. Which, while it would take away from GT sales, would instead replace them with sales of a more expensive model. (Of course, this partially has to offset the cost of tooling up for an SE in the first place.)

And with GM's new Camaro/Chevelle and retooled GTO coming down the pike in '07, I think Ford should introduce the Mustang SE by at least the 06 MY. That will hopefully get people who are on the fence to jump to Ford's yard before the Camaro comes out.

CA Stang

For me my wish list includes between 300-350 hp (although I'm content with the GT's 300 hp), IRS, an 18" tire and wheel package, and a subtle ducktail rear spoiler; a 6 spd manual would also be nice, but not imperative.

My guess is we won't see a GT in the near future with the above content (especially IRS, the ducktail, and a 6 spd), but if Ford were to produce this car as an SE, I'd be one happy camper. One can only dream right? I'd be willing to pay around $32K for this vehicle, and I'd cancel my current order for a GT in a heartbeat if I knew a Mustang like this would be available in the near future.

I know the above wish list looks like a Cobra (minus 150 hp or so), but I prefer a NA engine, and definitely don't need hp figures in excess of 400, and a price tag near $40 K.

Dan

Make that three of us.....I agree with GMConvert and RedSnake, there needs to be some type of SE in the lineup especially since the Cobra is delayed. Plus, it will keep the excitement level up for the whole lineup.

More importantly, Ford will have a model to put up against other manufacturers in auto reviews. When the first GTO vs. Mustang review shows its head, Ford would do better with a 350hp SE. Otherwise, there will be many people unfairly comparing the GT with more expensive & more powerful cars.

97RedSnake

PaperTarget, that "WE" still equals lost sales for Ford. If it is only a thousand people, that is still 1,000 lost sales. And these are sales that equal a higher profit margin per vehicle sold. Obviously, the V6 and GT are the backbone of the Mustang's business, but if that "WE" is so umimportant, then why do the Cobra and Mach 1 even exist?

To those of you who agreed with me, thanks. I am waiting along side you for that SE model. The sooner it arrives, the better.

And thanks for speaking up GMconvert. He is the perfect example of what i was talking about. And for the record, not everyone on either side of the fence is blindly brand loyal. There are quite a few american muscle enthusiasts who can see the good in both brands. Of course, the Mustang still has that special place in my heart. (I'm on my 5th.)

dallasw77

I'm with you 97Redsnake. I own 68 camaro, had a 70 Challenger and will soon be owning a 05 Mustang.

Boomer

You have to understand its a business..
The whole 'give us what we want, or we won't buy' works to a point.

If Ford builds the car for 1,000 people,
It costs them an extra 5,000 per car, and it pays 4,500 extra to R/D...then they lose that money.

In other words...a vocal few with the 'lost sales attitude' doesn't mean squat if it doesn't make Ford money.
Which is the end goal

GMconvert

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't have any idea about the sales figures of the fourth-gen Mach Is, so I don't know how lucrative it was for Ford. That's why I mentioned that any sales of the new SE would have to offset the cost of its production.

If they built it, one thing's for sure -- I'd buy one.

97RedSnake

I would imagine that Ford knows how to make a SE profitable. It would of course cost them some extra money to build an SE model. But, no one is saying give us more horsepower for a loss in profit. Those who would want a SE model are also willing to pay for one. $30,000 to $32,000 sounds about right, but could be a bit off one way or the other.

All i am saying is there is a market segment out there that either can't or won't pay $40,000+ for a new Cobra. They also won't be satisfied with the regular GT. And, if anything, this segment will grow with the new model. Because, a large number of previous Cobra buyers won't be willing or able to afford the new Cobra. These are buyers who most likely won't be looking at the new GT either. So, these previous Cobra buyers can be added to the list of ex-GM guys and previous GT/Mach 1 owners who want more power too. I would imagine that group is bigger than it is being given credit for here.

I think most of this argument is a moot point anyway. I am sure that Ford is aware of the buyers i am describing, and a SE model will come along eventually. (There has been plenty of talk by Ford themselves to suggest this.) My original post was written mainly to say we would prefer to have this car arrive sooner rather than later. Big surprise, huh?

Take care.

PaperTarget

I think Boomer was the only one who caught what I was saying. I never said there shouldn't be a SE. In fact, I think there should be one. But it won't be a car for the masses. If Ford were to build every Mustang GT like a Mach1 or Cobra, then sales would be a dismal failure (see: GTO). The Mustang GT at 300 HP is perfect. GM made the mistake of listening to a few enthusiasts who drove their car into oblivion. That being said, Camaro/Firebird stopped selling in 2002. The GM faithful haven't been flocking to Ford if you haven't noticed. Yes, SOME will come, but not the majority. The Camaro/Firebird were enthusiast cars like the Mach1 and Cobra. How many SVT owners do you think would suddenly flock to buy a Camaro if SVT went away (God forbid)? Some would, but I don't think the majority would. They'd buy something else Ford or Ford owned. Why? Because they're Ford fanatics. Over 100,000 people showed up at the 40th anniversary of the Mustang. That should say something.

GMconvert

Ah, well I seem to agree with you now, PaperTarget; I think I just didn't catch your point before. Likewise, I don't think under any circumstances that the GT should be any less of a car for the masses; I realize that's exactly what's kept Mustang sales so high. The car has been accessible to all sorts of people. GM polarized the various models of Firebird and Camaro so that you could either have a really stripped-down, V6-powered bore-in-a-box, or you could have a massive, overflowing with horsepower, scare-your-insurance-agent muscle car. Regular folks just didn't want the car, only enthusiasts did. And there weren't enough of us to keep the F-platform afloat financially without help from any non-enthusiasts.

In fact, the more I think about it, that seems to be the source of my present disgust with GM in the first place. They have a lot of cars that are just boring and cheap, and a lot of cars that are just over-the-top and expensive. There's nothing cool that the midrange driver can get into. Not in my opinion anyway.

So, I'm in agreement that the current V6 and GT need to stay where they are. The Cobra will be there for the hardcore who can afford it, and hopefully, we folks in between will get our SE. (If not, a tweaked-up GT could fill the bill.)