NJ3

Looks much the same as the '08 engine from fnsweet.
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showth...860#post723860

300angryhorses

yeah they look similar. he does have a nice rebuild going on, too.

300angryhorses

I put a dial indicator on the crankshaft. I'm at 0.022 inches. Ford specs are 0.0030-0.0148 inches.

ford4v429

curious as to all the scoring on the cam journals- contaminated oil seems most likely as it looks like its everywhere. did you ever cut the oil filter open to see if its full of metal? from the amount of scoring, guessing it will be, but then what started it?
if something goofy happened, like ate a chain tensioner, or spun a rod/main, *maybe* the filter plugged enough it went into bypass mode(even momentarily- cold start/rev can bypass some)and contaminated stuff got into the system? i had a old 396 that the nylon timing gear disintegrated- oddly it ran ok, never jumped, but started loosing oil pressure...at teardown found a lot of nylon bits in the pickup screen lots more in the filter- but the kicker was found fairly large pcs IN the crank crossdrilled holes- filter had to bypass to let them in, but there was crap in places i never woulda thought it coulda made it...

seeing the scoring, its got me wondering if maybe theres a dual/remote filter option out there that can handle cold/high flow oil without bypassing...I used to buy those Lee 2 stage 'maxifilters' that had a bypass filter media a little coarser than standard, seemed like a lot better idea than the standard rubber flap that bypasses unfiltered stuff right into the engine as in all the filters made today...only thing would be if someone abused oilchange time enough, the relief valve could get stuck open from dirty oil going thru- in my case, it wasnt time, but massive amounts of plastic plugging the filter media, and the low pressure was from plastic chunks in the relief valve. further thinking about it, a much higher pump relief(just to prevent shearing a driveshaft) and post-filter relief at lower pressure would probably be a best of both worlds setup. we built some pretty elaborate hydraulic systems for a servovalve controlled spinforming lathe years ago, it had pretty fine mesh suction strainers(only like 30 micron) to protect the pumps, and 5 micron full pressure filters(at 3000 psi, they were very pricey) to prevent servovalve contamination. that system also had a 'polishing pump' that did nothing but recirc continuously thru a 5 mic filter, when we scrapped that machine out years later, the oil was clean as new...
the polishing filter is much like one this old guy over at fordmuscle.com told me about- a 'Frantz" bypass filter. hes got a 200K 1964 390 thats only EVER had one oilchange in 1980 when motor was rebuilt, and that rebuild was shells/rings only, everything checked good. Frantz still makes these, they are used mostly for large commercial engines that hold hundreds of gallons of oil- and they also never get changed...every 1k or so, you swap the toiletpaper looking filter and top off any oil lost, oil looks clean as new decades later.
I didnt realize the 4.6 ran cams right on the aluminum head as a journal...thats kinda disappointing, but i guess typical, and it usually works.
the Livernois explanation of distance/volume i kinda wonder about...the wave analogy to me is apples and oranges to a closed passage filled with non-compressible fluid. in a leaky pickup/foamy oil/cavitation situation, the compressibility might allow the delays hes explaining- but then too- i gotta wonder about dry starts after a oil change, if it pumps air/bubbly oil (at pump prime) into the vane chambers, can it ever get out? perhaps the little grooves he mentioned are a controlled leakage added to purge any entrapped air out of the vane chambers? if that *might* be even a slight possibility, I would think a vacuum pump/solenoid adapter tould be fabbed to evacuate any air pockets? just wondering aloud.


EDIT- Amsoil makes a remote full flow AND 2 micron bypass filter, found pics of a mustang install...dont know if i like it in the fender, but still: http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/..._Fleschner.pdf

note, still the fullflow filter probably has a bypass in it. just thinking more, wonder if a compatible industrial filter could be found without the rubber bypass flapper? then the relief would handle the dirty oil, but a clogged filter would show reduced pressure at the sender(assuming sender is after the filter in the main oil ports)

Moroso also used to sell 'accusump' accumulators that would maintain pressure if pump ever starves in hard acceleration/cornering...also if a solenoid added, turning the key on gives instant pressure for the few seconds the motor is otherwise cranking dry...only possible drawbacks are, if no solenoid added, OR the engine fails to start, the crankcase will overfill by the extra quart or two- this could cause problems at startup.

just bored/typing, now i'm thinking about an accumulator/solenoid/dual remote filter setup for my car


just curious- was the 22thou by prying on the pulley, or pressing the clutch? the throwout puts considerable force on the thrust bearings... was curious how much force it took to knock the crank in/out...

300angryhorses

I think that the damage to the journals and cams was due to the heads being starved of oil when the oil pressure dropped. I didn't have the oil analyzed, but I didn't find chunks of metal or anything broken either.

300angryhorses

Got to the thrust washer. Clearly affecting the crankshaft endplay.

#5 main bearing with the washer still in



#5 main



old vs. new thrust washer

ford4v429

Stock pressure plate being used? Just I've always wondered about affects of heavier clutch springs(increased pressure to disengage) on thrust bearings...

300angryhorses

Thanks. It's stock. I've read a lot about possible contributing factors like clutch riding & a bad harmonic balancer.

I do drive it daily in heavy traffic and lots of red lights, and I'm then heavy on the clutch. I have about 70k miles on the car and bought it with 29k on it. I've also made 20+ passes at the drag strip. I also had underdrive pulleys on it for 20-30k, including all of the passes. I picked it up from a Ford dealership, and I have no idea how the first owner drove it.

And then there is just bad luck. There are lots of people out there driving in similar conditions with similar setups and not having problems and people driving in very different conditions having the similar problems.

amustangrocks

this has been a great and informative thread. good stuff to know.

i do sympathize though as my 5r55s thats suppose to hold up to a v8 crapped out on me on my v6. new solenoid here tomorrow, might fix or its a new trans time. i`m thinking just my luck too, but ive beat on it.