Shea

As I mentioned, it will lower your ETs. I guess if you aren't planning on racing, then there is no point in powershifting. I like to keep in practice even if I'm not going to the track, just for that occasional street race.

BTW, I am NOT advocating street racing.

Dan

Great advice which wasn't mentioned You should be accelerating through a turn. Get in the right gear on the straight before the turn.

RadBOSS

If 'my' comment regarding down shifting by letting the clutch out slowly to bring up the engine RPM up ... entering a turn, was taken as a performance driving tip I apologize ... its strictly a normal street driving technique ... If you are doing some high speed driving and you have a corner coming up requiring down shifting, best you develop some heal toe brake / throttle technique while down shifting so as to maintain good balance of the car as you enter the turn and you are still trailing the brakes.

Shea

Good advice on cornering, although technically, you only want to accelerate AFTER the apex of the turn.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...ornering.shtml

metroplex

Do you rest the left heel on the floor or do you have to lift the left foot from clutch to dead pedal (or in the S197's case, the unprotected carpet)?

As for using gas while coasting - basically as long as your engine is running, it will use gas. Whether or not you are opening your throttle is insignificant because of 2 reasons:

1). Idle Air bypass valve
2). Drive-by-wire throttle motor

whitewaterrafter

Good info everyone, I'm just getting back into driving a manual myself. Be careful at stop lights with rolling backwards. With just the clutch in and no brake, the slightest incline can gradually move you into the front of the car behind you if you're not paying attention. Almost did it myself last Friday(13th, of course). I actually thought the car in front of me was inching forward.

metroplex

This may sound kind of stupid, but the steering column prevents my knee from bending in a way that would allow me to do heel-toe downshifting (toe on brake, heel on throttle), has anyone else observed a similar problem?

kevinb120

This is the only truly good post on this thread Never coast to a stop, always drive it to a stop. That is one of the most common bad habits I have ever seen, its the manual driver's version of 'leave the light bulb on to save energy from turning it off and on' farce. I have no idea where that completely idiotic thought process came from of letting a car coast in neutral-even automatics don't do it.

kevinb120

Street driving really has no use for heel/toe driving, unless you're coming off a highway at 130 and running a 40mph offramp at 90 so you can carry a nice four wheel drift down it and slide gently across the three lanes of the next road smoothly between minivans after the ramp.....I used to do it on autocrosses, but it is way too slow a process to help shifting, and I got a lot faster by not doing it. It's something magazine writers love to say they can do, other then that, its really quite useless. By the time you roll your foot, I'm already done shifting. Pedals on the Mustang aren't great for doing it anyway, although they surely have decent placement for normal driving(unlike the god awful SN-95's). And powershifting is for those who drive a vehicle with transmissions that are fully paid for by a sponsor. If you ever bugger the shift versus the split seconds you save, you're lucky if you only loose the race.

mikes rx

There is a third option: leave it in gear, slow down as if it was an automatic (ie-just brake), and when the car starts shuttering when you're near a complete stop, press the clutch in (to prevent stalling).

With this way, you are still using engine braking, and aren't burning up the clutch by downshifting to slow down. I really never understood the reasoning behind people downshifting instead of using more brake: brake pads are a lot cheaper than a new clutch.

Also, Kevin, I believe that in some states it's ILLEGAL to coast in neutral. An even better reason not to do so. But, I've never really understood how a cop could get you for that?

kevinb120

Yea, you don't have to shift down through every gear. In a normal 45+mph intersection stop I will typically let 4th coast down and typically go to 2nd at about 20mph and ease it out smoothly and keep it in gear until the last 2mph or so and just use the brakes normally(the entire time). I don't downshift so it feels like the end of a roller coaster ride and my passenger has air under their back . A passenger wouldn't even notice any engine braking.

I am in the car with people sometimes when they need to increase braking rate, like when a car pulls into the lane and they instinctively push the brake harder and the clutch in and you can feel the car speed up slightly, loose braking effectiveness, and the load shift onto the front wheels and start to dive, enhancing the feeling of a panic stop. All of which would be practically unnoticeable if the clutch were left engaged. A lot of people who drive manuals have no clue that a car can roll around at 4mph in 2nd gear with no issues. I think its a panic reflex from the days they learned and were terrified of frogging the car in a parking lot, a slight lack of coridination with the left foot instinctively wanting to push the clutch down with the brake. Its a bad habit like flinching and blinking your eyes when learning to shoot, which can stick with you forever unless someone tells/teaches you properly.

If you are coasting in neutral, you have no ability to actively get out of trouble as you are simply riding in a cart with brakes and it greatly reduces braking effectiveness. Anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle would never have the habit to start with. For being in neutral, I think the law has more to do with heavier trucks in case of brake issues-but on the flip side most don't want them doing extreme engine braking to rpm overspeed and belching huge clouds of smoke either(which is kind of a redneck show-off move for truck drivers anyway to make a bunch of noise for no good reason).

RadBOSS

I think with proper technique, downshifting for engine breaking, does not materially 'wear out' the clutch, unless one has gotten into a bad habit of slipping the clutch while decellerating. There is no point to the latter.

When coming to a stop I'll work my way down to 2nd and leave the clutch engaged to just before the engine starts to shudder. So i agree with the others on that point.

RadBOSS

I am not really sure why its called heal-toe (maybe you have to be peigon toed). Pedal position is critical in the operation and the S197 has excellent pedal position for this (my BOSS does as well). A little bit wider throttle pedal pad helps as well. The technique involves having the big toe and ball of your foot on the brake pedal, with the rest of your foot hanging over the throttle pedal. This way with hard breaking (you still have plenty of leverage), you can rock your foot on the ball of your foot on the brake pad and blip the throttle with the rest of your foot as you are down shifting thru the gears. Takes a little practice, but if pedal placement is correct, this is pretty easy and efficent.

metroplex

I can't do it for some reason. In order to have enough coverage of the brake pedal and be able to reach the gas pedal, my knee has to rotate towards the steering column and the column doesn't let me do it. Heck, my right knee hits the steering column every time I try to get out of the car.

kevinb has some really good points. What would you suggest for scenarios where I'm doing 60 mph in 5th gear and have to slow down in order to turn off the road? Start braking, downshift into 3rd gear or 2nd gear right before the start of the turn?

RadBOSS

I'm 5' 10 and with the seat adjusted where I like it (high so I can see over the hood), there is not much knee room by the bottom of the dash. I have the Ultimate Pedal covers installed, so it’s easier to reach across the gap, but I am not twisting my knee. Foot position is Natural and all you do is rock / twist your foot into the throttle pedal to goose it.

It depends a lot on the turn, how much you slow down before you enter it and what your intention is when you exit it. If you are going to accelerate you may need to be in 3rd or 2nd. If you are then coming to a stop and you are already in 3rd, then drop it into 2nd at 10 - 15 MPH and then declutch just before the engine starts to shudder and then you stop. Definitely agree you do not want to coast in neutral (you may have to suddenly accelerate if the situation changes).

Some of this is easier to show than explain. Maybe I will have to do a video?

metroplex

A video would be excellent!!

RadBOSS

I'll see what I can do w/o killing myself.

karman

I tend to only work down to 3rd most of the time.
By the time I get to the bottom of 3rd I feel I am going slow enough to just use the brake.
I just don't feel the need when I'm just coasting to a light under 25mph to put it in 2nd.
Of course, in heavy traffic and no lights I will go to 2nd.

RadBOSS

I agree ...

RadBOSS

Lets start with some still's.

1) pedal set up

2) foot on the brake

3) foot on the brake and gas 1 (knee rotated slightly to make room for the camera)

4) foot on the brake and gas 2