clockworks

Honestly, I never let the clutch out all the way when going in reverse. I've driven stick for 6+ years and never had to replace anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by rondosa@
i do find that as well with most girls they're so wimpy

<!--QuoteBegin-King Cobra
It's good to see a girl know her way around a manual tranny.
Too many girls think that a stick is too hard, so they don't even try.[/quote]
Haha, we must be hanging around different types of girls. Every single one of my gf's has driven stick...well even. My current gf has a manual Civic and has never owned a performance car, but I'm almost positive she can get a better ET than me at the strip driving my Stang. She just has the knack.

clockworks

No, riding the clutch is when the clutch is partially engaged. If it is fully disengaged, it's not 'riding the clutch.'

...I think.

atomicskiier01

Does anybody know if this is right?

atomicskiier01

Is your site down right now?

clockworks

I was just being silly. I know for a fact that it's not bad for your clutch/transmission to hold in the clutch (keep it fully disengaged).

It's bad for your clutch to have it partially engaged for 'extended' periods of time. You will wear out either the flywheel or clutch plate.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

Boomer

Yeah, from what I read/heard....
... the clutch burns if riden for extended periods...

Backing out, slipping the clutch...no biggie..
Its not going fast, and your not doing it for more than a couple seconds at most.

And its not good to hold the clutch down for extended periods of time either......

Riding the clutch, like mentioned.... some people rest their foot on the clutch pedal while driving... even the slightest pressure on the clutch pedal will cause it to wear differently and burn up faster....
Just remember after shifting, foot off the clutch...need to shift...put it back on, use it, get off it again....

Drufus

Occasionally when I get out of my car i smell, presumably the clutch. Had her for only a week and its my first stick car. Been driving it fine lately, I think I got most of the stalling out of my system. Does that smell indicate I am burning up the clutch? Or is it to be expected to smell it once in a while>? I don;t think I am riding it at all, as I push in quickly and let it off pretty smoothly. However, when I pull into my garage I kind of have to feather it a bit in order to go up a slight incline and not fly through the garage. Is this hurting anything?? I don;t want to wear out the clutch in a few thousand miles.

Stoopy

This smell is really very normal on a freshly acquired Mustang. This is our second brand-new Ford in 3 years (other vehicle is the wife's 2002 Exploder) and when we parked it in the garage, man, it STANK the place up for about, 3 or 4 weeks.

It's mainly due to all the fresh paint, assembly lube, and fine coating of oil on various parts to "pickle" them at the plant to prevent any corrosion as they wait to be used on the assembly line. All that stuff is now heating up with daily driving and has to cook off. It's okay, and should disappear in a week or two.

If it doesn't, well, THEN have it checked but the dealer is likely to not find a problem, with their nose at least. With good driving habits, the clutch shoudl last you a VERY long time so I wouldn't worry. The factory clutch in my Chevy pickup has over 144,000 miles on it and is going strong. This car, oh yes you could burn the clutch out if you really wanted to, but you'd really have to be abusing it.

On some of the other items mentioned here - like many others, I've been driving sticks all my life and have my own observations:

- Holding the clutch pedal down when the car isn't moving isn't actually bad for the trans (it's not doing anything at that point - the input shaft, layshaft and output shaft are completely idle) nor the clutch (it's free and clear from the flywheel on the back of the motor). What takes the wear is the throwout bearing, this bearing is where the pressure is applied by the clutch fork (basically, think of a lever). When you get a nasty noise with the clutch disengaged (pedal down), odds are that it's the throwout bearing getting ready to go. Shouldn't happen for a long long time, but no sense in hurrying that day along.

- Downshifting and shifting in general: Imagine that when shifting, you're trying to get two gears, rotating at different speeds, to match up nicely so the teeth engage and the gears slide inline with each other nicely. Obviously, when you upshift into a higher gear, the trans is designed to have the motor RPM be lower at the same speed - so you have to wait for a corresponding drop in RPM from the engine, for that perfect point of speed alignment. Your trans has "synchros" which, when you apply pressure to the shifter, will tend to "speed up" the next gear to help it match speeds. You can feel this happen when you GENTLY guide the stick into gear - it won't wanna go at first, but just keep pushing with one finger lightly and - SCHLK - there it goes, right when they match (unless you waited too long and missed the match point).

The biggest thing a lot of people do wrong is try to wrestle the poor thing into the next gear against it's will. The synchros get trashed, and the dog teeth on the gears get all gnarled. A lot of early Toyotas and Datsuns I remember driving were particulary fincky about this - the harder you push the shifter, the more it don't wanna go.....but then you relax, gently guide it, and wait, and sure enough - SNICK - as easy as kissing the bride!

Usually, at "casual" shifting points (say, 2500 RPM, not winding the engine to redline) you'll find that at about 700 RPM lower, thats the match point that the trans was designed to look for to engage the next gear. The higher RPM's you shift at, the bigger the difference, but at very high RPMS, the engine winds down faster so you can actually shift REAL fast - BAM - and get away with it.

Downshifting is just the same thing! You just have to raise the engine RPM a bit instead of waiting for it to drop a bit...so help it out with a tap on the gas and you're done! Clutch in, move stick through neutral to the next LOWER gear, push gently and tap the gas at the same time and it should sliiiiiiide right in, and you can even keep your foot lightly on the gas pedal to maintain those RPM's as you let the clutch out, and voila....with a little practice your passengers may not even feel a thing except notice the louder exhaust tone. It's a beautiful thing.....and you NEED to work on this especially for going through turns - there's no way I feel comfortable going through any turn in NEUTRAL. I think that's a very bad idea, and it just feels, well, messy. You don't get accelleration if you need it, and you don't get the natural smooth braking power of the engine if you need to lift off the gas and slow a bit. And its no fun fishing around for the right gear when you come out of the turn. Yuck!

- Lastly, I don't see anything about "heel and toe" technique (unless I missed it) and think it's an overlooked topic, and a great technique. Essentially, it's a downshifting technique used when you need to apply brake as well, like decelerating to enter a fast turn that you need to get through quickly, say like an onramp. You're going to have to downshift, so your left foot is committed to the clutch pedal. Then you're going to have to brake, so your right foot is busy, but now you need to tap the gas a bit to help the downshift. So all you have to do is have your right foot on the right half of the brake pedal, applying pressure with the ball of your foot under your big toe, and then twist your foot towards the gas pedal to give it a little goose with your pinky-side, and you're done. "Heel and Toe" is the old name I guess from days when the brake pedal was farther away and your foot had to actually go sideways, but you get the idea, and when you practice this it feels very natural in a very short time.

Biggest reasons to downshift are 1) allow for finer, better control of the vehicle through turns, and 2) allow for the natural braking ability of the engine to slow you down, instead of putting all the load on the brakes all the time. Good stuff!

By the way, the truck I mentioned above with the factory clutch, is also still on the factory brake pads at 144,000 miles too, and I drive in heavy, stop-and-go parking lot traffic. So when all the above is put to work together, it can last you a good long time.

Oh yeah - most small, local airports are notorious for having nice long empty roads running alongside of 'em and are pretty good places to experiment on early Sunday mornings..

Boomer

Mine STANK for the longest time....

Its the coating that is sprayed on at the plant, taken off at the dealership....
but some doesn't get taken off as it is lost in the crannies...and it'll smell.
Don't worry it goes away...
I thought it was burning clutch too...it wasn't

Stoopy

Oh man- I had one more thing to say(yeah I know -"Stoopy, shaddup!) but someone asked if you could shift without using the clutch:

Yep you sure can - from 3rd to 4th particularly is easy. Harder to do in the lower gears (you gotta hit that match point, and it goes by faster on the smaller gears) and 5th doesnt like it much. BUT - Good Gawd, don't do it (unless you just HAVE to experiement like I did). The worry, risk,wear and tear, and wincing at the teeth-grinding noises when you mess up is NOT worth the effort you saved on your left foot!

Strangely though, its common practice (other than in first gear) on most of your 18-wheeler tractor-trailer rigs. I heartily recommend finding someone willing to let you give that a whirl if you want a gear-shifting, double-clutching experience that'll make you appreciate how easy we have it, and how smoooooth this car is!

Dan

Best answer yet

Just to add.....

I frequently drive around in 1st when in parking lots. 2nd is good if you are going down a larger through road of the parking lot. I like to be careful between the rows of cars because someone always backs out when you least expect it.

Winter driving........... A few points:
#1 Take it easy and don't drive like you do in the summer
#2 Take it easy
#3 Try not to downshift to much as engine braking will tend to cause your car to slide if the rpms aren't matched perfectly (and chances are they won't be). Use your BRAKES!
#4 Take it very easy when turning and lightly feather the gas until you are straight. If you accelerate even modestly around a curve in the snow you'll swing your back end out.
#5 Just like in any car, leave yourself tons of room to brake.
#6 SNOW TIRES.....I have Blizzaks in the stock 17" size. They are a godsent.
#7 This car performs quite well in the winter...... As long as you don't put too much power to the ground, you'll be fine.

As Kristina said, I believe that when approaching a light you should remain in gear (if in 2nd or 3rd) until rpms drop too low. If you are in 4th or 5th, drop to 3rd and keep clutch engaged until rpms get to 1000-1500rpm. This way, if you need to go for some reason, 3rd has more than enough juice. At long lights, put the car in neutral and take your foot off the clutch. If in traffic or short lights, keep clutch engaged (and right too the floor or you'll be rubbing the clutch against the flywheel = bad).

And pratice, practice, practice......and every once in a while talk/drive with someone who is an experienced manual driver who can point out any bad habits you have.

And try to enjoy along the way because manual is a helluva lotta fun

RadBOSS

When coming to the stop, de clutch, pull into neutral and let the clutch out. You want to leave the clutch out to save the thrust bearings on the crank shaft (the ckutch throwout bearing appreciates this too). At idle the oil circulation is less and if you remain declutched it causes undue wear (all that clutch force is now transmitted to trying to push the crankshaft out the front of the motor) if you do it every single time you stop.

For normal street driving , and economy, this pupply will easily handle shifts at 2000 RPM and it won't look like your going for that trophy dash to the nest signal or light. I guess it depends if you are showboating or not how high you want to do your shifts at.

This car is a little rough on the up shifts because of throttle hang and makes smooth transitions with quick shifts not easy (except under heavy throttle). Throttle hang is something the Ford scientists programmed in presumably for emissions considerations. When you lift off the throttle there is a delay in RPM drop (actually on mine it jumps a couple hundred RPM before dropping down). To get a smooth up shift, you need about a 25% to 30% drop in RPM's (rough estimate). For down shift the opposite is ture, engine RPM needs to be about 25% to 30% higher to get a good transition. For street driving braking/decelleration, this is not a necessary technique. Its simpler to declutch, drop down a gear and slowly engage the clutch to slowy bring the engine RPM up ... otherwise make sure you are wearing you neck brace. For passing, declutch, goose the throttle to give you the 25% to 30% RPM increase, engage the clutch and apply throttle ... this all happens very quickly so practice somewhere where you won't be noticed.

atomicskiier01

Ok, here's another question......When I park, I usually put it in first with the clutch in, then pull the parking brake up and turn off the key. I heard of people that put it in neutral or reverse as well. Is there any right answer to this?

Boomer

Good to keep it in 1st or reverse with the parking break applied...
This way if the brake fails... you still are in gear, and it won't roll...

I think theres a bit in the owners manual about it too....
In neutral, apply the brake, then shift into the gear (1st or R) with the car on or off.

Rondosa

hmmm this is also a controvertial topic.

my last car i always left it in neutral and pulled the parking brake. then, i got into the habit of just leaving it in 1st and not using the parking brake at all unless on a hill.

with the mustang, i started off leaving it in neutral and pulling the parking brake - however, a couple weeks ago my boss told me my car was sitting half way in the parking lot! my spot is on a SLIGHT grade....like, barely enough to make a puddle of water flow, but the parking brake had given a little and the car rolled half way out of it's spot. :shock:

i had the brake pulled a fair way up and the light was on on the dash...i can never get it WAY up though the dealership techs do that and i have a hard time getting it back down.

now i leave it in 1st and pull the brake up, just to make sure. there are some people that say using your parking brake too much will warp your rotors - but really, the ONLY way that could EVER happen realistically is if you've been at the track (a real track, not a drag strip) and your brakes are molten hot and you park the car and yank the brake immediately and let it sit for a while.

kristina

Boomer

Yeah, and if you don't use your parking brake often..it may fail when you need it most.

Use both, just to be on the safe side...

Shea

There has been a lot of bad advice on this thread. Listen to Stoopy though, he's one of the people who knows what he is talking about.

To answer your last question, you should park in either first or reverse. Personally, I usually don't even use the parking brake, but that is not the "recommended" method. The reason why you put the engine in first or reverse is because those are the 2 lowest gears, and so they are the best for taking advantage of the engine (while turned off) helping to keep the car from moving. You can rely on the parking brake and park in neutral if you like, but I wouldn't.

If you are using your brakes pretty hard, it heats up the rotors and you can actually warp them by using the parking brake. Not to scare you though, because you would have to be braking hard and often for that to happen (usually it would only happen in a race situation).

One other thing: A lot of people seem to argue against downshifting when coming to a stop. I ALWAYS downshift and use engine braking to slow me down. People say that downshifting can cause transmission problems, however I've owned 50+ vehicles, probably half of which were manuals, and I always downshift. I NEVER had a transmission go out on me, although I did have a throwout bearing go out on my Audi, but that had 210,000 miles on the original engine/trans.

So, I say downshift. Screw this "coast in neutral" idea. I would like to know what racing school will tell you to coast in neutral.

Practice heel/toe downshifting too...

Boomer

Its more of a convenience for shifting into neutral...
Its not right or wrong.
It doesn't hurt anything either way....
Downshifting causes more clutch use... or wear
Shifting into Neutral causes more brake use...or wear.

And as for the warping rotors with your parking brake...
You have a better chance of warping them by washing your car after a long car trip...or going through the rain on the highway and slamming on your brakes.....

Shea

I already said that warping the rotors will likely only happen in a race situation:

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_practice/prac..._precheck.shtml

I do realize that shifting into neutral is a convenience, but I guess I am just of the opinion that I bought a performance car, and I want to give performance driving to go along with it.

If I wanted to be lazy with my shifting, I would have gotten an automatic. That JMO though.

Boomer

Yeah I see the parallels between coasting up to a light and not being performance oriented....