PONY XPRESS

Heading west on 287 going over the Tappan Zee Bridge I see a late model Cobra about 1/4 mile ahead doing the traffic weave. So I decide to catch up, follow, then pass as we exit the bridge. For those who know the area you have to watch for the sheriff on the right in the parking area. Once we passed the speed trap its a long straight uphill for about 1.5 miles. Cobra is on my tail & we go. From 80-120 he is right with me as we slow for traffic at the top of the hill. Was surprised he didn't pull out & try a pass.

Following traffic & see the sheriff about 1/4 mile ahead so we settle in & right before my exit, the Garden State Pkwy, the Cobra pulls out & passes me. The blower sounds great. So I follow & he is taking the same exit.

This is one of my favorites. Its a 2 lane exit. Very fast right hander (100) that goes up a hill. Then the hill gets steeper & the camber is reversed & it turns into a very long decreasing radius left hander (80-90) that goes up a steeper hill & onto the beginning of the Garden State.

The right hander is fine, I'm a few lengths behind him, going into the left I closed quickly & felt he was holding me up a bit. As we hit the apex I was defiantly on the power sooner as when he accelerated a lot of carbon came out both exhaust. We're going up the hill exiting the left about 80 & I stay with him to the top of the hill as we slow for traffic. About 110.

I was happy to see my stock automatic running with the Cobra in this section. I'm sure if the speeds got higher he would have pulled, but I think once moded 05's hit the street their going to be tough to beat.

ZRX4ME

mags say the 2005 GT outhandles the cobra.I believe it.

RaGsHoCkEy88

yes a fellow new jerseyan.......im gonna take over the parkway with my 05......anyone wanna go cruising in april lemme know!!

Steve

Well, it sounds like you were sticking with him all right - but (and no flames intended here, ok) I would be absolutely stunned to see an '05 hanging with an '03 or '04 Cobra (especially if is modded as you said this one was) in any manner, much less "holding you up" a little.

Not raising the BS flag here; just having had a LOT of seat time in S/C'd Cobras (my son owns an '03 that is an 11 second killer) and, having driven the '05 GT a bit (albeit not at 10/10's), I have to say that in a true 'race', there is NO way the '05 GT will hang with the Cobra - ESPECIALLY if it is modded and is driven by an equally competent driver. I'm not taking anything away from the '05 handling and platform - I'm just talking real world abilities.

An additional 90hp+ for the Cobra (and that is stock HP vs stock HP), IRS, and a 6 speed transmission will make short work of an '05 in the twisties or in the straights in the hands of a decent driver.

Again, good story and I'm glad to hear that the GT is so capable. But either the Cobra wasn't hitting it hard, or the driver wasn't capable, OR something mechanically was wrong with Cobra (there should not be any 'carbon' seen exiting the exhaust of an 'in-tune' Supercharged Snake).

No flames, just my opinion based on experience in the Cobra.

Dan460

I'd have to agree with Steve. I love the 05, in fact I ordered one last weekend and plan to trade in my 03 Cobra for it. My 03 is mildly modded(433 RWHP) and I have run a couple 350Zs(similar perf. #s to the 05 GT Stang.) and left them like they where tied to a tree.

That's the only good thing about the 03 is it is insanely fast. The 05 is a far superior car and I can/will make it as strong as my 03 as soon as the Whipple kit comes out.

da75

I agree word for word with Steve's comments. My guess is either he is overly timid driver or you are much more aggressive or a combination. I think Cobras handle like poo, but they do have the IRS and 6 gears to work with.

I, too, am not trying to take anything away from your story. It sounds like it was fun, but my guess is the drivers involved in it made it close, not the GT compared to the Cobra (which is a compliment to you).

PONY XPRESS

Hi Steve

No flames taken. As I said in the post at the first uphill I am surprised he didn't try a pass. Driver skill & judgment is worth a lot of HP. I do have a lot of track time over the years, road & oval, have also been an instructor for many clubs, Corvette, Porsche, BMW, at local tracks like Lime Rock, Pocono, NHIS, the Glen, so I do have an edge over most drivers. It is quite possible that the Cobra driver wasn't pushing it to the Max, but he was a little loose in the left, as I wasn't on the edge either, but I was defiantly coming out of the corner faster & he realized it & didn't like it & wanted to make sure I stayed behind him. Either way the extra few mph makes a big difference exiting a corner. Talk to anyone who has raced as a rookie & they will claim everyone is cheating or has killer motors. Its the exit speed out of the corners that gives you good lap times & the ability to pass a faster car.

The post was more of a FYI & the potential of the S197 chassis. As stated, & here is where we will disagree, after a few mods I don't think any previous production Mustang or Cobra will hang with the 05".

da75

Mods on a GT or not, if a cobra with a set of nittos finds you at a stoplight or a 1/4 mile stretch it will make you look silly.

On twisties.. I defer to my earlier less harsh comments. Depends more on driver skill and knowledge of the road. Unfortunately the average daily encounter in most places in U.S. is not going to be on a mountain twisty or a closed track, it will be out in the open..

PONY XPRESS

da75

You say a moded 05 won't run with the Cobra.

For argument sake put the exact drivetrain, tires, drivers in both cars & the S197 is going to win every time. The Fox/Sn95 has been a flexible flyer for years & Ford keep putting Band-Aids on them. Don't get me wrong, I bleed blue & have owned 5 Stangs, but nothing has the potential as this new chassis. It is so much more ridged, has a longer wheelbase & wider track that what ever can be done to the SN95 can be done to the S197 with better results.

My .02

Steve

Pony, I could not possibly agree with you more - driver ability and judgement on a road course will make all the difference in the world. Obviously, you are a very capable driver and I applaud what you did! Like I said, I wasn't taking anything away from what you did. Outstanding story and very well written as well (I'm a 'closet' writer of sorts. )

Regarding the exit speed issue; again, we are in total agreement. Nailing the turns and the apexes will drop lap times substantially and it sounds like you were right where you needed to be in the turns whereas the Cobra was all over the road. Good job!

And, as you also said, we will have to agree to disagree regarding previous generation Mustangs/Cobras versus the '05. While I am one of the staunchest supporters of the '05 Mustang (I love that car!), I do think that it will take some serious and expensive mods (such as the twin screw) and some beefing up of the trannies/rear ends to take the horsepower to put the '05 on the same playing field as the '03/'04 Cobra's.

I'm not saying it can't be done - how fast you want to go and how well you want to handle in any given car is essentially limited ONLY by how much do you want to spend. I know of fellow Turbo Buick drivers who have totally rebuilt their suspensions to handle nearly as well as anything else on a road course. But, they are still essentially a pig when it comes to handling without a LOT of money going into the suspension and chassis! :-) However, at the tree or stoplight in a heads up race? Look out!

So, I have no doubt we'll see modded '05's surpassing '04 Cobra's both on the twisties and maybe even at the drags - but it won't be done cheaply. And, the internals on the 4v Cobra are much stronger than those of the 3v '05's so that will have to be taken into account of overall longevity. Will the '05 be a killer? Absolutely! Of that, I am certain.

But it's big (and slightly 'older') '03/'04 Cobra siblings can handle everything the '05 can throw at them in stock for stock form with similarly talented drivers - and then some.

Congrats on your '05!

PONY XPRESS

Thanks Steve for you input.

Cars are fun again. Long live the IC engine.

da75

Pony -

Similar tires, drivetrain and drivers but only the chassis being different?
You probably have a very good point. I may have initially misread exactly what you were getting at. Just will take some money getting the drivetrain to that point is all - and making it as durable.
When I drove the 05 GT I was hella impressed. In fact I was impressed with V6 too for being a quick, sharp daily driver. Thats why Im getting one.

PONY XPRESS

da75 & others

As a side note: The 03/04 Cobra's & Mach's are going to be a lot better investment 20 years out then an 05' GT. If it is at all possible to hold on to them you should. I saw a Redfire Cobra in a dealer in CT for under 30K a while back & I think he would have gone down some more. Was tempted to buy & hide.

f e r

No flames but I'm with Steve also. In the magazines they said that the auto tranny was good for the first three gears, once it changed to fourth it was not the same (hence the lower trap speed of 99-102mph) and in fifth a little slower. 03/04 Terminators stock, does 110mph easy in 1/4 mile and a little modified up to 113mph, and with other mods 118+mph. So at 110mph+ it had to pass you really easy. And you said both were doing 120mph before traffic. In all, I think the driver was a rookie or wasn't forcing the car at all.

Nothing personal PONY, only true facts

f e r

Dan460

If the new engine proves reliable with a little boost, I believe the Whipple kit will make the 05 a Cobra killer. My 03 is a tank(HEAVY) and the IRS wheel hops so bad that it makes the power very hard to put down. The 05 will be my 10th late model Mustang and it is amazing how much better the new chassis is. I can't wait for the 06/07 Cobra, I might have to trade up again.

PONY XPRESS

fer

No doubt the Cobra is a faster car in the straight line over a stock 05. But without repeating myself I think it is very evident that the S197 has the potential to be faster with equal mods.

I think I have also shown that being down on HP in the twisties you can have some nice results. You have to know what your doing going into a reverse camber turn at 100+ where all the HP in the world won't help you.

Some mods I have planned. Come spring 18x9's, should help in twisties, maybe springs, next week taking out mufflers & doing straight pipes (will post pics), cold air box, flash job, may do gears (use car for business 40K a year, gas mileage?) With those mods there's a good chance I'm in the high 12's & have picked up some cornering power & exit speed which equates to pulling on that Cobra.

Steve

Pony, with those mods you listed you most likely WILL see some ultra high 12's with good traction and air.

Keep us posted, ok? And yes, any pics you can supply regarding the mods would be great to see!

Good luck.

da75

Dan-
Thats my plan. Im getting the V6 to cut back on expenses and then Ill pick up a 06/07 cobra when they come out.
I know this is off topic, (apologies everyone) but as far as wheel hop I had it bad also. After I got rid of the stock tires it lessened. Try running a little less air in the backs too. Another thing, if youve not heard about it yet, is you can replace the differential bushings with a set of polyurathane ones. Its supposed to help.

The 05 is such an amazingly better car than the 03/04 cobra that to be honest I cannot wait to get rid of this one. The endless problems (see above) and the harsh ride were bad enough, but now that the GT makes respectable h.p and more importantly - torque, and also looks WAY better its a no brainer. I have nothing but respect for the 05's and the people buying them.

REDFIRESNAKE

If modded '05 GT's can whip the 03-04 Cobras then I'm all for that! I love my Cobra but I also love to see technology move the mustang forward. And if you're going to get spanked, wouldn't you rather have one of your mustang brothers or sisters doing it?

Scothew

Great discussion thread, especially Steve and Pony Xpress's. I agree with both of you guys.

The 03 is great for pure unadulterated power. I do believe that the 05 has a handling edge with its 3-link and panhard bar setup even over the updated IRS. Both are great cars and that is what matters most

Btw, street racing is a :nono: