Ford Unveils Next-Generation V-6 Engine
11/10/05, 03:30 PM
#102
Needs to be more Astony
Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 4:26 PM
HP is HP....Simple as that. I don't know many people whom buy a car based on what octane gas it uses. Nissan could tune their VQ to run 89 or 91.
HP is HP....Simple as that. I don't know many people whom buy a car based on what octane gas it uses. Nissan could tune their VQ to run 89 or 91.
11/10/05, 03:40 PM
#103
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Originally posted by Knight@November 10, 2005, 5:33 PM
The point is that if Nissian tuned the VQ to run off 87 octane that it would not make 300hp.
The point is that if Nissian tuned the VQ to run off 87 octane that it would not make 300hp.
Sorry to rant, but this is the exact reason why American car companies are struggling. Instead of matching the competition or exceeding it, American car companies always do too little, too late. Honda and Nissan for example have been using 240-290 hp for years. The 260 HP 3.5 VQ was introduced in the 2002 Maxima. This engine comes out in 2007 modes.
11/10/05, 04:40 PM
#104
Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 4:43 PM
Trust me, you can run 87 octane in the VQ.
Trust me, you can run 87 octane in the VQ.
What he said was you would not make 300 HP if you put 87 in it, which is the case. More than 1 Japanese brand companies is now adding qualifiers in their advertising that the rated HP is with 91 octane.
Also, the SAE has new HP testing proceedures for 2006. The most important part of the new proceedure is that an independent 3rd party observer has to be present.
So far GM & Ford are looking good with HP ratings under the new system the same or higher (LS2 went up by 5 HP) under the new prodeedure). Almost all Japanese HP #s are lower under the new measurement, some by as much as 10%. Not all Japanese companies have comitted to use the new SAE proceedure.
I have not yet seen any Nissian HP #s under the new SAE proceedure, nor have I heard if Nissian is going to adhear to it. Could be another case of HP inflation.
11/10/05, 04:48 PM
#105
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Originally posted by TomServo92@November 11, 2005, 6:55 AM
With a premium fuel tune.. Everyone quotes that HP rating but fails to add that qualification.
With a premium fuel tune.. Everyone quotes that HP rating but fails to add that qualification.
11/10/05, 05:21 PM
#107
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Originally posted by V10@November 10, 2005, 6:43 PM
He didn't say you couldn't run 87 octane in the VQ.
What he said was you would not make 300 HP if you put 87 in it, which is the case. More than 1 Japanese brand companies is now adding qualifiers in their advertising that the rated HP is with 91 octane.
Also, the SAE has new HP testing proceedures for 2006. The most important part of the new proceedure is that an independent 3rd party observer has to be present.
So far GM & Ford are looking good with HP ratings under the new system the same or higher (LS2 went up by 5 HP) under the new prodeedure). Almost all Japanese HP #s are lower under the new measurement, some by as much as 10%. Not all Japanese companies have comitted to use the new SAE proceedure.
I have not yet seen any Nissian HP #s under the new SAE proceedure, nor have I heard if Nissian is going to adhear to it. Could be another case of HP inflation.
He didn't say you couldn't run 87 octane in the VQ.
What he said was you would not make 300 HP if you put 87 in it, which is the case. More than 1 Japanese brand companies is now adding qualifiers in their advertising that the rated HP is with 91 octane.
Also, the SAE has new HP testing proceedures for 2006. The most important part of the new proceedure is that an independent 3rd party observer has to be present.
So far GM & Ford are looking good with HP ratings under the new system the same or higher (LS2 went up by 5 HP) under the new prodeedure). Almost all Japanese HP #s are lower under the new measurement, some by as much as 10%. Not all Japanese companies have comitted to use the new SAE proceedure.
I have not yet seen any Nissian HP #s under the new SAE proceedure, nor have I heard if Nissian is going to adhear to it. Could be another case of HP inflation.
11/10/05, 06:22 PM
#108
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 4:43 PM
Trust me, you can run 87 octane in the VQ. Give credit where it's due. If Ford can build an engine as good as the VQ, it would be a huge accomplishment for Ford. The fact of the matter is that Ford is in a hard place right now and being the HP leader in its given segment would help boost sales. The idea worked wonders for Nissan.
Sorry to rant, but this is the exact reason why American car companies are struggling. Instead of matching the competition or exceeding it, American car companies always do too little, too late. Honda and Nissan for example have been using 240-290 hp for years. The 260 HP 3.5 VQ was introduced in the 2002 Maxima. This engine comes out in 2007 modes.
Trust me, you can run 87 octane in the VQ. Give credit where it's due. If Ford can build an engine as good as the VQ, it would be a huge accomplishment for Ford. The fact of the matter is that Ford is in a hard place right now and being the HP leader in its given segment would help boost sales. The idea worked wonders for Nissan.
Sorry to rant, but this is the exact reason why American car companies are struggling. Instead of matching the competition or exceeding it, American car companies always do too little, too late. Honda and Nissan for example have been using 240-290 hp for years. The 260 HP 3.5 VQ was introduced in the 2002 Maxima. This engine comes out in 2007 modes.
11/10/05, 06:51 PM
#109
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 6:24 PM
The VQ dynoes exactly what Nissan advertises. I have seen plently of chassis dynos of the 3.0 and 3.5 VQ. There is absolutely no inflation in Nissan's numbers. The Altima is actually slightly underr-rated. Also, we both don't know if Nissan could or couldn't tune their engine to run on 87. We do know that in the 4.6L 3V, tuning for 93 octane doesn't add a huge amount of power. Lastly, this isn't a big deal since hp is hp. Ford's engine is underpowered compared to the VQ. End of story.
The VQ dynoes exactly what Nissan advertises. I have seen plently of chassis dynos of the 3.0 and 3.5 VQ. There is absolutely no inflation in Nissan's numbers. The Altima is actually slightly underr-rated. Also, we both don't know if Nissan could or couldn't tune their engine to run on 87. We do know that in the 4.6L 3V, tuning for 93 octane doesn't add a huge amount of power. Lastly, this isn't a big deal since hp is hp. Ford's engine is underpowered compared to the VQ. End of story.
11/10/05, 07:01 PM
#110
I wonder if this thing can be stroked to 4.0 or more. Either way this engine looks quite promising.
11/10/05, 07:03 PM
#111
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Originally posted by rygenstormlocke@November 10, 2005, 8:04 PM
I wonder if this thing can be stroked to 4.0 or more. Either way this engine looks quite promising.
I wonder if this thing can be stroked to 4.0 or more. Either way this engine looks quite promising.
11/10/05, 07:12 PM
#112
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Originally posted by TomServo92@November 10, 2005, 8:54 PM
Sorry, but it's not the end of the story. The fact is the Ford 3.5L is tuned for 87 octane and is intended for your average family vehicle. Unlike the 300HP VQ, this iteration isn't tuned for all out performance. The "joe average" VQs (i.e Altima) don't make any more power than the Ford. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Sorry, but it's not the end of the story. The fact is the Ford 3.5L is tuned for 87 octane and is intended for your average family vehicle. Unlike the 300HP VQ, this iteration isn't tuned for all out performance. The "joe average" VQs (i.e Altima) don't make any more power than the Ford. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Is the Altima and Maxima not an average family sedan? Ford dropped the ball on the power ratings of this motor. Hopefully, I am reading the article correctly and the engine will be tuned for more power in other applications besides CUV's. If you haven't noticed HP sells. With Ford's current sales numbers, they need something to differentiate them from the competition. I don't know if you noticed, but Ford isn't selling cars and hasn't been for many years. The fact remains that they are late to the party. This engine goes in a 2007 MY vehicle, wheras Ford and Honda have had a modern 3.5L engine in their vehicles since 2002-2003. That's my point. Ford needs to wakeup and innovate, instead of following the competition. If not, they are going to keep losing market share.
FYI....The VQ isn't tuned for all out performance. Also, the engine in the Altima is making more power than the advertised hp figures. And no, the new SAE ratings won't hurt the VQ.
11/10/05, 07:19 PM
#113
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 8:15 PM
Is the Altima and Maxima not an average family sedan? Ford dropped the ball on the power ratings of this motor. Hopefully, I am reading the article correctly and the engine will be tuned for more power in other applications besides CUV's. If you haven't noticed HP sells. With Ford's current sales numbers, they need something to differentiate them from the competition. I don't know if you noticed, but Ford isn't selling cars and hasn't been for many years. The fact remains that they are late to the party. This engine goes in a 2007 MY vehicle, wheras Ford and Honda have had a modern 3.5L engine in their vehicles since 2002-2003. That's my point. Ford needs to wakeup and innovate, instead of following the competition. If not, they are going to keep losing market share.
FYI....The VQ isn't tuned for all out performance. Also, the engine in the Altima is making more power than the advertised hp figures. And no, the new SAE ratings won't hurt the VQ.
Is the Altima and Maxima not an average family sedan? Ford dropped the ball on the power ratings of this motor. Hopefully, I am reading the article correctly and the engine will be tuned for more power in other applications besides CUV's. If you haven't noticed HP sells. With Ford's current sales numbers, they need something to differentiate them from the competition. I don't know if you noticed, but Ford isn't selling cars and hasn't been for many years. The fact remains that they are late to the party. This engine goes in a 2007 MY vehicle, wheras Ford and Honda have had a modern 3.5L engine in their vehicles since 2002-2003. That's my point. Ford needs to wakeup and innovate, instead of following the competition. If not, they are going to keep losing market share.
FYI....The VQ isn't tuned for all out performance. Also, the engine in the Altima is making more power than the advertised hp figures. And no, the new SAE ratings won't hurt the VQ.
BTW, the VQ that makes 300HP IS tuned for all performance whether you want to admit it or not.
11/10/05, 07:27 PM
#114
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Originally posted by TomServo92@November 10, 2005, 9:22 PM
:bang: Did you actually read what I wrote? I said the Altima was an average family sedan and guess what? The 3.5L in it makes...drumroll please....250HP/249lb-ft!!!! WOW! I can see how Ford dropped the ball on this one compared to Nissan!
:bang: Did you actually read what I wrote? I said the Altima was an average family sedan and guess what? The 3.5L in it makes...drumroll please....250HP/249lb-ft!!!! WOW! I can see how Ford dropped the ball on this one compared to Nissan!
Noticed your Ninja edit: Please do some research on the VQ. You will find that it's no way tuned for all out performance. Look specifically what the engine was designed for. FYI......My friend's 350Z puts down 460 to the rears. Tell him his engine is maxed out at 300 hp.
11/10/05, 07:38 PM
#115
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 6:30 PM
Again, the Altima 3.5L VQ is UNDERRATED. As in, it makes slightly more power than the advertise HP ratings :bang: It took Ford 5 more years to build an engine that merely matches the competition. Do you not see a problem with this??? Great innovation there. This engine needed to be more powerful than the competion....Think differentiation. Ford's sedans haven't sold well for years and don't have the greatest reputation. A more powerful engine would draw customers to the showrooms and might increase sales. This exact concept worked wonders for Nissan. No wonder Bill Ford is trying to lure Carlos Ghosn over to the company.
Noticed your Ninja edit: Please do some research on the VQ. You will find that it's no way tuned for all out performance. Look specifically what the engine was designed for. FYI......My friend's 350Z puts down 460 to the rears. Tell him his engine is maxed out at 300 hp.
Again, the Altima 3.5L VQ is UNDERRATED. As in, it makes slightly more power than the advertise HP ratings :bang: It took Ford 5 more years to build an engine that merely matches the competition. Do you not see a problem with this??? Great innovation there. This engine needed to be more powerful than the competion....Think differentiation. Ford's sedans haven't sold well for years and don't have the greatest reputation. A more powerful engine would draw customers to the showrooms and might increase sales. This exact concept worked wonders for Nissan. No wonder Bill Ford is trying to lure Carlos Ghosn over to the company.
Noticed your Ninja edit: Please do some research on the VQ. You will find that it's no way tuned for all out performance. Look specifically what the engine was designed for. FYI......My friend's 350Z puts down 460 to the rears. Tell him his engine is maxed out at 300 hp.
11/10/05, 07:45 PM
#116
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 10, 2005, 8:30 PM
Again, the Altima 3.5L VQ is UNDERRATED. As in, it makes slightly more power than the advertise HP ratings :bang: It took Ford 5 more years to build an engine that merely matches the competition. Do you not see a problem with this??? Great innovation there. This engine needed to be more powerful than the competion....Think differentiation. Ford's sedans haven't sold well for years and don't have the greatest reputation. A more powerful engine would draw customers to the showrooms and might increase sales. This exact concept worked wonders for Nissan. No wonder Bill Ford is trying to lure Carlos Ghosn over to the company.
Noticed your Ninja edit: Please do some research on the VQ. You will find that it's no way tuned for all out performance. Look specifically what the engine was designed for. FYI......My friend's 350Z puts down 460 to the rears. Tell him his engine is maxed out at 300 hp.
Again, the Altima 3.5L VQ is UNDERRATED. As in, it makes slightly more power than the advertise HP ratings :bang: It took Ford 5 more years to build an engine that merely matches the competition. Do you not see a problem with this??? Great innovation there. This engine needed to be more powerful than the competion....Think differentiation. Ford's sedans haven't sold well for years and don't have the greatest reputation. A more powerful engine would draw customers to the showrooms and might increase sales. This exact concept worked wonders for Nissan. No wonder Bill Ford is trying to lure Carlos Ghosn over to the company.
Noticed your Ninja edit: Please do some research on the VQ. You will find that it's no way tuned for all out performance. Look specifically what the engine was designed for. FYI......My friend's 350Z puts down 460 to the rears. Tell him his engine is maxed out at 300 hp.
As for being late to the party, I don't dispute that. Ford spent too much money developing SUVs and let the Duratec V6 languish. But they now have a very competitive engine and 250HP is just the starting point.BTW, I didn't say 300HP was max output for VQ. But I am curious, how much did it cost your friend to get 460HP out of the 350Z and what exactly did he do?
11/10/05, 07:50 PM
#117
Originally posted by TomServo92@November 10, 2005, 9:48 PM
Who's to say the Ford won't be underrated as well? As for being late to the party, I don't dispute that. Ford spent too much money developing SUVs and let the Duratec V6 languish. But they now have a very competitive engine and 250HP is just the starting point.
BTW, I didn't say 300HP was max output for VQ. But I am curious, how much did it cost your friend to get 460HP out of the 350Z and what exactly did he do?
Who's to say the Ford won't be underrated as well?
As for being late to the party, I don't dispute that. Ford spent too much money developing SUVs and let the Duratec V6 languish. But they now have a very competitive engine and 250HP is just the starting point.BTW, I didn't say 300HP was max output for VQ. But I am curious, how much did it cost your friend to get 460HP out of the 350Z and what exactly did he do?
Good point, and on that 460HP 350Z, where was the HP on the power band...what TQ numbers is he generating.
11/10/05, 08:33 PM
#119
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Originally posted by Boomer@November 10, 2005, 8:53 PM
Some of the armchair engine builders/tuners in this thread are makin my head hurt.....
Some of the armchair engine builders/tuners in this thread are makin my head hurt.....
WORD.
