Ford Unveils Next-Generation V-6 Engine
11/9/05, 03:01 PM
#41
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
MSP, you *REALLY* think they'll be offering seven engines, of which 3 are sixes? Nah-uh. The reason a Mustang is so affordable, is because they don't do things like that.
Also, I doubt you'll ever see a 300HP V6 motor in a mustang. You're more likely to see a lower powered V6 mated for Hybrid use.
And, were is your 5.4 in production Mustang? I saw your "racing" one, but that 5.4 is gonna be in a production Stang pretty soon.
Also, I doubt you'll ever see a 300HP V6 motor in a mustang. You're more likely to see a lower powered V6 mated for Hybrid use.
And, were is your 5.4 in production Mustang? I saw your "racing" one, but that 5.4 is gonna be in a production Stang pretty soon.
11/9/05, 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by JeffreyDJ@November 9, 2005, 2:04 PM
MSP, you *REALLY* think they'll be offering seven engines, of which 3 are sixes? Nah-uh. The reason a Mustang is so affordable, is because they don't do things like that.
Also, I doubt you'll ever see a 300HP V6 motor in a mustang. You're more likely to see a lower powered V6 mated for Hybrid use.
And, were is your 5.4 in production Mustang? I saw your "racing" one, but that 5.4 is gonna be in a production Stang pretty soon.
MSP, you *REALLY* think they'll be offering seven engines, of which 3 are sixes? Nah-uh. The reason a Mustang is so affordable, is because they don't do things like that.
Also, I doubt you'll ever see a 300HP V6 motor in a mustang. You're more likely to see a lower powered V6 mated for Hybrid use.
And, were is your 5.4 in production Mustang? I saw your "racing" one, but that 5.4 is gonna be in a production Stang pretty soon.
Just give me a GT-R with the 4.8L and I'm good.. I'll watch from the grandstands!
I meant the 5.0L for the Cobra!!
11/9/05, 04:25 PM
#45
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
11/9/05, 04:35 PM
#46
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Originally posted by V10@November 9, 2005, 7:28 PM
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
11/9/05, 04:55 PM
#47
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Originally posted by V10@November 9, 2005, 3:28 PM
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
I am of the mindset, that if this motor is infact going to be here for a few years, then why are people so afraid of it? Why not just admit this 4.0 Cologne can be put to some good use?
Why are people waiting to now say, its got lots of life left, when a better V6 is around the corner? Why not just admit that the current 2005-06 Mustangs indeed have a good motor? Whats everyone waiting for, for me to run a 10 sec 1/4mile to prove it? Powerhouse is already at 11's with the motor with all stock internals.. Lets just come out and say it everyone. Whats really the story being kept from the average V6 owner, which might get his hopes up which everyone hates? You know its true... Anytime an 05 or 06 V6 owner gets his hopes up, he is slapped back down and beaten with sticks around here.. Lets have some honesty cast our way for once.. Whats the story on this SOHC 4.0 Cologne V6?
11/9/05, 05:05 PM
#48
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Lets lay it all out on the table... Look in this link and scroll down..
This is a 2005 SOHC 4.0 Motor in a Mustang with a single Turbo, running all stock factory parts.. Heads, cams, rods, pistons, seals, valvetrain, and everything else stock.. This is with 12psi of boost..
Lets discuss this without arguing for once..
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=37797
Just click on the link, and scroll down.. You will see a dyno sheet, with 1/4 mile reciepts.. Let talk peacefully for just once...
This is a 2005 SOHC 4.0 Motor in a Mustang with a single Turbo, running all stock factory parts.. Heads, cams, rods, pistons, seals, valvetrain, and everything else stock.. This is with 12psi of boost..
Lets discuss this without arguing for once..
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=37797
Just click on the link, and scroll down.. You will see a dyno sheet, with 1/4 mile reciepts.. Let talk peacefully for just once...
11/9/05, 05:16 PM
#49
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 9, 2005, 10:37 AM
About 3 years late Ford; better late than never. I am a bit disppointed that the engine isn't a bit more powerful. The 3.5 VQ is more powerful and it has been around since 2002 in the Maxima. Otherwise, this engine sounds like a step in the right direction. Put this engine in the Fusion GT and Ford 500 Stat!!
About 3 years late Ford; better late than never. I am a bit disppointed that the engine isn't a bit more powerful. The 3.5 VQ is more powerful and it has been around since 2002 in the Maxima. Otherwise, this engine sounds like a step in the right direction. Put this engine in the Fusion GT and Ford 500 Stat!!
11/9/05, 05:37 PM
#50
Originally posted by MSP@November 9, 2005, 5:58 PM
How much of a HP increase for the wonderful Cologne engine? Also, would this include some type of internals change? Basically, are you saying that another package is coming for the Cologne 4.0 which might consist of a slightly lower compression with all Forged internals? How will they implement the HP increase.. I'll give you $5 or $10 bucks for a few links from which you have acquired this info my friend.. Are you an insider? Just spill the beans please.. Lay it all out on the table..
I am of the mindset, that if this motor is infact going to be here for a few years, then why are people so afraid of it? Why not just admit this 4.0 Cologne can be put to some good use?
How much of a HP increase for the wonderful Cologne engine? Also, would this include some type of internals change? Basically, are you saying that another package is coming for the Cologne 4.0 which might consist of a slightly lower compression with all Forged internals? How will they implement the HP increase.. I'll give you $5 or $10 bucks for a few links from which you have acquired this info my friend.. Are you an insider? Just spill the beans please.. Lay it all out on the table..
I am of the mindset, that if this motor is infact going to be here for a few years, then why are people so afraid of it? Why not just admit this 4.0 Cologne can be put to some good use?
No information was given as to exactly how the HP increase would be obtained. IIRC the # thrown out was in increase of >10%.
You can try to search for this thread, but I belive that it was before the big server crash so most likely the thread is gone for good.
Finally, per some previous comments, the origins of the 4.0L V6 actually date back to the 1960s. The Cologne V6 has to be Ford's longest running engine family. Although the present 4.0L is very different from the original 2.4L V6 pushrod from the 1960s, 40 years for an engine family is mind blowing!
11/9/05, 05:46 PM
#51
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Originally posted by V10@November 9, 2005, 4:40 PM
A long, long time ago Brad received an e-mail from a Ford engineer @ Cologne. It said that Cologne was unaware of any plans to replace the 4.0L in the Mustang and their production planning was based on the Mustang using the 4.0L though 2010 (possibly longer).
No information was given as to exactly how the HP increase would be obtained. IIRC the # thrown out was in increase of >10%.
You can try to search for this thread, but I belive that it was before the big server crash so most likely the thread is gone for good.
Finally, per some previous comments, the origins of the 4.0L V6 actually date back to the 1960s. The Cologne V6 has to be Ford's longest running engine family. Although the present 4.0L is very different from the original 2.4L V6 pushrod from the 1960s, 40 years for an engine family is mind blowing!
A long, long time ago Brad received an e-mail from a Ford engineer @ Cologne. It said that Cologne was unaware of any plans to replace the 4.0L in the Mustang and their production planning was based on the Mustang using the 4.0L though 2010 (possibly longer).
No information was given as to exactly how the HP increase would be obtained. IIRC the # thrown out was in increase of >10%.
You can try to search for this thread, but I belive that it was before the big server crash so most likely the thread is gone for good.
Finally, per some previous comments, the origins of the 4.0L V6 actually date back to the 1960s. The Cologne V6 has to be Ford's longest running engine family. Although the present 4.0L is very different from the original 2.4L V6 pushrod from the 1960s, 40 years for an engine family is mind blowing!
Most likley 15% 242HP-276TQ.. I doubt it! With all the skeptisizm, even I have less confidence in it ever happening.. LOL!!
11/9/05, 05:50 PM
#52
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Originally posted by 05fordgt@November 9, 2005, 7:19 PM
Hey Jason, the one thing about the Maxima is that to get the most out of their engines, you should use premium fuel. Their site says their 3.5L will run on 87, but for "maximum performance", premium should be used. You pretty much can be sure that Ford will have this motor running on 87 octane only. I too can't wait to see this motor in the 500.
Hey Jason, the one thing about the Maxima is that to get the most out of their engines, you should use premium fuel. Their site says their 3.5L will run on 87, but for "maximum performance", premium should be used. You pretty much can be sure that Ford will have this motor running on 87 octane only. I too can't wait to see this motor in the 500.
I also think that the Mustang will shortly see this engine. I know what has been posted, but the 4.0 Cologne is archaic and relatively un-efficient. Ford would be smart to use this engine in the Mustang.
11/9/05, 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by max2000jp@November 9, 2005, 4:53 PM
I had an 00 Maxima with the 3.0VQ. It was a great engine and it did require premium. I read the Ford press release and it stated that in CUV vehicles the engine is rated at 250. It also says in the specs that the hp and tq is "estimated". I have a feeling that this engine will have more power in other applications, like Nissan's VQ. Maybe 260-270 hp in the 500, etc. etc.
I also think that the Mustang will shortly see this engine. I know what has been posted, but the 4.0 Cologne is archaic and relatively un-efficient. Ford would be smart to use this engine in the Mustang.
I had an 00 Maxima with the 3.0VQ. It was a great engine and it did require premium. I read the Ford press release and it stated that in CUV vehicles the engine is rated at 250. It also says in the specs that the hp and tq is "estimated". I have a feeling that this engine will have more power in other applications, like Nissan's VQ. Maybe 260-270 hp in the 500, etc. etc.
I also think that the Mustang will shortly see this engine. I know what has been posted, but the 4.0 Cologne is archaic and relatively un-efficient. Ford would be smart to use this engine in the Mustang.
I totally agree max2000jp in regards to them using the 3.5L motor.. I'll be honest.. If when 2007 rolls around and this motor is not inside the V6, and the GT does not get a normally aspirated 5.4, I'll turn to my second love.. LOL!! I know I'll get bashed, but I'll move over to the 2007 Camaro, and run the corvette engine.. I used to also have a 69 Camaro, and in all honesty I love those almost as much as Mustangs.. Dont hate me.. But we will see what happens.. This is not taking anything away from the current 4.6.. Just showing my frustration with Ford is all.. I'll still come by here and hang out with you guys.. LOL!! "Trader"! I'm sorry! Its either 3.5V6 and 5.4L V8, or I'm jumpin camps.. I cant think of any other car worth having than a 2007 Chevy Camaro-retro"69"!! LOL!!
Flame suit is on and zipped up!
11/9/05, 06:20 PM
#55
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by V10@November 9, 2005, 5:28 PM
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
EDIT: O5FordGT beat me to it! I guess I need to read the whole thread before replying.
11/9/05, 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@November 9, 2005, 8:23 PM
I assume you're comparing to the Nissan 3.5L. One thing to remember about the Nissan: it's tuned for Premium. The Ford 3.5L is not.
I assume you're comparing to the Nissan 3.5L. One thing to remember about the Nissan: it's tuned for Premium. The Ford 3.5L is not.
I hope we can compare this to the VQ. The VQ has been on Ward's ten best engines list since 1995.
11/9/05, 06:25 PM
#58
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Originally posted by Ugly Ernie@November 9, 2005, 7:23 PM
I hope we don't get this in the Mustang! It said it would be mated with a 6 speed automatic TRANSAXLE! To me that means front wheel drive & I don't want it!
I hope we don't get this in the Mustang! It said it would be mated with a 6 speed automatic TRANSAXLE! To me that means front wheel drive & I don't want it!
It's not welded to the transaxle. They can mate it to other tranny's ya know.
11/9/05, 09:05 PM
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con sarnit! I saw this on the homepage and thought it might link to my post in the Other Ford's section and got all excited. Then i see it was brad's thread, so i was totally gonna call repost... and then i saw the time of brad's post... shoot. Lol...Its not fair, I was in class from 10:30 till 11:30, i posted as soon as i could! I just didn't think to check in the mustang section for this news.
This press release has the main article that brad posted plus links to articles about the transmission, tech specs, plus one about work on the 3rd gen hybrid transaxle, which will be able to handle a V6.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...4&make_id=trust
I remember that too, saying the 4.0 would be around for a long time. Plans can always change though. As far as 250hp/3.5L not being impressive... it may not be 100hp/L, but its a helluva step up from 210hp/4L, that's like a bit over 50hp/L. This engine is really important for ford, and it seems like they're being smart about it. Engineering adaptability into it is essential, and i'm glad to see they thought about future changes.
Saying they won't put this into the stang because they wouldn't've gone through the trouble to put the 4.0 in if they were just gonna replace in a couple years doesn't make sense. They needed to put something under the hood until this engine came around.
I say they pop this thing into the stang when the redesign comes around in about 4 years or so.
This press release has the main article that brad posted plus links to articles about the transmission, tech specs, plus one about work on the 3rd gen hybrid transaxle, which will be able to handle a V6.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...4&make_id=trust
Originally posted by V10@November 9, 2005, 6:28 PM
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
Hate to burst you bubbles, guys, but Ford has not said that they will use the Duratec35 in the Mustang.
The last word was that for 2007 the 4.0 Cologne was getting a HP increase and will be used in the Mustang for several more years (most likely through 2010, if not longer).
Also, per several other comments, the Duratec35 has VVT, sorry no big jump for adding it sinc it's already there. I'd imagine that the final HP rating will be a bit more than 250, which is not all that impressive out of 3.5L these days.
Saying they won't put this into the stang because they wouldn't've gone through the trouble to put the 4.0 in if they were just gonna replace in a couple years doesn't make sense. They needed to put something under the hood until this engine came around.
I say they pop this thing into the stang when the redesign comes around in about 4 years or so.
11/9/05, 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by mustang_sallad@November 9, 2005, 8:08 PM
con sarnit! I saw this on the homepage and thought it might link to my post in the Other Ford's section and got all excited. Then i see it was brad's thread, so i was totally gonna call repost... and then i saw the time of brad's post... shoot. Lol...Its not fair, I was in class from 10:30 till 11:30, i posted as soon as i could! I just didn't think to check in the mustang section for this news.
This press release has the main article that brad posted plus links to articles about the transmission, tech specs, plus one about work on the 3rd gen hybrid transaxle, which will be able to handle a V6.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...4&make_id=trust
I remember that too, saying the 4.0 would be around for a long time. Plans can always change though. As far as 250hp/3.5L not being impressive... it may not be 100hp/L, but its a helluva step up from 210hp/4L, that's like a bit over 50hp/L. This engine is really important for ford, and it seems like they're being smart about it. Engineering adaptability into it is essential, and i'm glad to see they thought about future changes.
Saying they won't put this into the stang because they wouldn't've gone through the trouble to put the 4.0 in if they were just gonna replace in a couple years doesn't make sense. They needed to put something under the hood until this engine came around.
I say they pop this thing into the stang when the redesign comes around in about 4 years or so.
con sarnit! I saw this on the homepage and thought it might link to my post in the Other Ford's section and got all excited. Then i see it was brad's thread, so i was totally gonna call repost... and then i saw the time of brad's post... shoot. Lol...Its not fair, I was in class from 10:30 till 11:30, i posted as soon as i could! I just didn't think to check in the mustang section for this news.
This press release has the main article that brad posted plus links to articles about the transmission, tech specs, plus one about work on the 3rd gen hybrid transaxle, which will be able to handle a V6.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...4&make_id=trust
I remember that too, saying the 4.0 would be around for a long time. Plans can always change though. As far as 250hp/3.5L not being impressive... it may not be 100hp/L, but its a helluva step up from 210hp/4L, that's like a bit over 50hp/L. This engine is really important for ford, and it seems like they're being smart about it. Engineering adaptability into it is essential, and i'm glad to see they thought about future changes.
Saying they won't put this into the stang because they wouldn't've gone through the trouble to put the 4.0 in if they were just gonna replace in a couple years doesn't make sense. They needed to put something under the hood until this engine came around.
I say they pop this thing into the stang when the redesign comes around in about 4 years or so.
Just so things are kept precise..
2005 4.0L V6 = 52.5HP Per Liter= 210HP V6
2005 4.6L V8 = 65.2HP Per Liter =300HP V8
2005 3.5L V6 = 71.5HP Per Liter = 250HP V6
Future engines which could be created
2006 4.0L V6 = 75.10HP Per Liter= 300HP V6
2006 4.3L V6 = 77.20HP Per Liter= 332HP V6
2006 4.6L V8 = 78.65HP Per Liter= 362HP V8
2007 4.8L V8 = 92.95HP Per Liter= 446HP V8
2007 5.0L V8 = 107.25HP Per Liter = 536HP V8
2007 5.4L V8 = 136HP Per Liter = 734HP V8
For your reference the GT500 - 5.4L V8= 83.3HP(SuperCharged) Per Liter = 450HP V8, so you can see how the design of this particular engine, when comparing both versions of the 5.4L..
Just looking at the numbers on face value, this is pretty much what we could see with a bore and stroke increase, based on the same design.. Of course these values could be changed by Ford with computer manipulation for various marketing reasons.. Or insurance profile catagories.. But using the same reference design, and provided they all used 65mm throttle body, these are the numbers..
I just like to look at it, to understand the impact of the design based on HP per Liter.. Ford would never give us this kind of power though.. This would be to good for us.. We dont deserve such a nice set of engines..