kintaro

I will be going in tomorrow with all my paper work. I will ask to see the car to see if there is a name on the sticker. I didn't go today because I was lied to, and told the GM wasn't there. I may have to take off tomorrow to see if I can get this resolved. I already took half a day off today to get this resolved but all I got was a bunch of BS. About my car being sold, it is definately a possibility and I would not put it past them. Tomorrow is D-Day for my car it seems, I hope all turns out well, but I'm prepared for the worst.

In all honety, I really don't want them to have my money, but I will put up one last fight tomorrow.

Mongoose

I once had an issue with a local store and ended going to the store manager and told him I was going to the consumer avocat at the local TV station if he did not correct the problem. Needless to say they do not want that kind of negative coverage so he took care of the matter and I have not been back. It worked for me so I say go for it. Pick one the dealer does not advertise on as the might be just a little reluctant to go after them. Being a smart a--s gets you no where.
ROLL ON

1 COBRA

Take anything which might persuade them to be more agreeable and ethical.
Do you by any chance have a concealed weapons' permit?

kerafaith

Ok. You say you have a DORA. That should have all the info you need. Call the custome service number & give them your model, order number, & dealer code. They can look up your status & give you an update w/out the vin. If they say built I would walk into the dealership & get on one of their phone & call them there (on speaker phone) & let them hear what they say.

Then demand that the dealership give you your vin number. Also like I stated earlier. Call a lawyer, alert the media, & post their name & email addy here for backup support. Like I said though. Make sure they know that they are in for bad publicity & lower customer sells if they don't honor their promise. JMO. Keep us updated.

PS You can always call "the number" in their office. That should shut them up. And I don't think you have to have a full vin for that, just an order code. If you need "the number" pm me.
~*~Kera~*~

1 COBRA

I could not disagree more. That's like going to war and giving the enemy the coordinates of your planned positions. If you are going to shoot, shoot but don't talk. No warning. Let them figure out the mess by themselves.

Badsnke98

From what I understand/know only A-plans have a name on invoice and sticker. My wifes name was on as orders A-plan (we told salesperson X) with no sig by GMS it us no good. As I said earier the Ford CS #'s did us no good, all they is refer it back to the dealership and suggest you move on to a honest dealship.

xr7g428

Kintaro,

I wish I could go with you man. I am sorry if I have sounded a bit harsh. It makes me very unhappy when I see someone treated wrong like this.

I think that they have a buyer for your car. They are simply acting out of greed trying to sell something that is not rightfully theirs to sell. It will probably come down to a balance between their greed and your ability to make them uncomfortable. Nothing like a video camera to make people think about what they say and do.

I wish you the very best of luck and you will be in my thoughts. If you decide to sue them count me in for the first $100 donation to your legal fund if you need it.

I'll bet that there are a few more here that would join in. And of course you would want to include Ford in any suit, after all, it is there Partnership Program. Think they would light a fire under this scum dealer.

Bill Basore

xr7g428

Oh, buy the way, I own over 50,000 shares of Ford stock, and I will be sending this entire thread to Ford Investor Relations.

Ford would be selling a lot more cars if their dealers were not acting like pirates. Ford does not benefit at all from "over sticker" price gouging. In fact 3 of the guys I work with would have ordered cars if not for the greed of the dealers. So far one of them has bought a Scion. He could not wait any longer, and wouldn't be abused by the dealers.

Badsnke98

I total disagree.

While Eddie waits in center of showroom, the Police will be on their way to remove him and friend from the dealership property. They have the right to refuse service.

That is just making an hiney of yourself. Some of you guys don't get it, Eddie has no signed "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" the factory ordering papers he has, like we had are useless with a dishonest Sales staff. A Lawyer will tell the same.

Also, take note. The dealership owns the rights to the ordered vehicle, not the purchaser. Knowing the VIN #, means only that you know the #.

And real Court Judge's deal in facts and laws, not what kind of deal someone thinks they had. This is not TV Drama.

Media, does not care, deals like the one above happen all the time. Fact being there is no signed purchase agreement. If there was we would not be having this thread. And Eddie would purchase his car, once his car arrives at dealer.

The dealership does not care about who you tell, because a pissed off customer
from another dishonest dealership will walk into this dealer.

Been there done that.

kerafaith

I could not disagree more. That's like going to war and giving the enemy the coordinates of your planned positions. If you are going to shoot, shoot but don't talk. No warning. Let them figure out the mess by themselves.
[/b][/quote]

What I meant by that was to have the numbers of the local media on your cell when you arrive at the dealership. If they give you crap then call the number right in their showroom & tell your story. Then drop by the local newpaper on your way home & fill them in.

Then to top it off I would call Ford & rgister a complaint with them. Plus word of mouth should put a hurting on their sells.

BTW Badsnke98 ~ If someone walks in off the street from another dealership who has screwed them over. Do you really think they would take crap from another? My guess is no. They would prbably et up & walk out from there too. JMO.

~*~Kera~*~

PACETTR

I total disagree.

While Eddie waits in center of showroom, the Police will be on their way to remove him and friend from the dealership property. They have the right to refuse service.

That is just making an hiney of yourself. Some of you guys don't get it, Eddie has no signed "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" the factory ordering papers he has, like we had are useless with a dishonest Sales staff. A Lawyer will tell the same.

Also, take note. The dealership owns the rights to the ordered vehicle, not the purchaser. Knowing the VIN #, means only that you know the #.

And real Court Judge's deal in facts and laws, not what kind of deal someone thinks they had. This is not TV Drama.

Media, does not care, deals like the one above happen all the time. Fact being there is no signed purchase agreement. If there was we would not be having this thread. And Eddie would purchase his car, once his car arrives at dealer.

The dealership does not care about who you tell, because a pissed off customer
from another dishonest dealership will walk into this dealer.

Been there done that.
[/b][/quote]

kintaro

I total disagree.

While Eddie waits in center of showroom, the Police will be on their way to remove him and friend from the dealership property. They have the right to refuse service.

That is just making an hiney of yourself. Some of you guys don't get it, Eddie has no signed "Vehicle Purchase Agreement" the factory ordering papers he has, like we had are useless with a dishonest Sales staff. A Lawyer will tell the same.

Also, take note. The dealership owns the rights to the ordered vehicle, not the purchaser. Knowing the VIN #, means only that you know the #.

And real Court Judge's deal in facts and laws, not what kind of deal someone thinks they had. This is not TV Drama.

Media, does not care, deals like the one above happen all the time. Fact being there is no signed purchase agreement. If there was we would not be having this thread. And Eddie would purchase his car, once his car arrives at dealer.

The dealership does not care about who you tell, because a pissed off customer
from another dishonest dealership will walk into this dealer.

Been there done that.
[/b][/quote]

I think Badsnke is 100% right. I definately have the crap end of the stick, going tomorrow to the delearship will more just to cause a scene and get out before authorities come for me. I'm almost positive that the car has been sold. The GM kept saying he would give me XPlan when a similar car arrived. But a similar car would never arrive unless they tried to reorder a clone and pass it off as my original car.
By now it's a matter of principle as well, I don't think I would be able to sleep at night knowing I gave that delearship my hard earned money. At this point it may be better to just wait for the 06 and see what the new blue will look like.
I will file the appropriate complaints and cause a scene, but I have no doubt I will come back car less. Thanks to everyone for the support, I really appreciate it.

OBleedingMe

Luck, Kintaro... I'd still get their names and send them out with a detailed letter to the local media, perhaps contact a lawyer for a free consultation anyway. I know Badsnake said there's no hope, but there's no harm in trying.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Ford Customer Service can tell you your VIN# on the phone if you have your order number and dealer code. I suppose the only chance you have of getting your car is if you can get that VIN # and match it with a car they have on their lot, you know? Then there's no way they can say it's someone else's or a factory order.

Let us know how it goes.

05fordgt

Why is the buyers order so important, all I have is a VOC, it does say order type x. I also got a separate receipt for 2000.00 that says" order 2005 mustang...date Dec 07 04 (same as the VOC ), I also got the credit card statement reflecting they were paid.
So how do we get this Buyers order?
[/b][/quote]

Hey David. You get a buyers order when you actually order or purchase a car. It is the piece of paper that has the new vehicle info on it, trade or transfer of tag info, payoff info, if applicable, insurance info, your info (how you want it titled) and the breakdown of the car you are purchasing, with sale price, rebates listed, sales tax, and tag fees. The bottom of the sheet shows how much total you owe ( if paying cash) or how much you are financing. Plus there is a spot to list your deposit you left, and your trade value. This paper has 3 copies (transparencies). The customer signes in 2 or 3 spots, and the manager signs it to make it offical. This is the paper that is binding by law, as it is a contract to purchase a car. If you buy the Mustang with X or A/Z plan, have a manager sign it, and they do a 180 and won't accept the deal, this is your "golden ticket". The manager signed it, and he has to honor it. All the Mustang GT's I sold so far, all had the customer and a manager sign a buyers order, not just the VOC. Plus I give a copy to the customer. The VOC is not a binding document. If a manager signed a VOC, you may have a case to get the car.

Badsnke98

Kera,

What I'm covering is the fact Eddie has no signed "VEHICLE PURCHASE ORDER", at the bottom front of document is the location of signatures. The right side colume states. "This Order shall not become binding until Dealer's authorized representative's signature appears here." _____________________ >>>>Therefore the media is not interested in heresay. The last big car scam to make the news here was about an old man who was scammed into paying some where around $100,000 for a new $46,000 Caddilac. There were signatures and the news finally shaimed the Dealership to refunding the large over charge.

Complaints to Ford Customer Service only get referred back the General Manager of the Dealership. >>>>>A total waist of ones time. (Been there done that) They even tell you move on to a good Dealership.

We are on the same page as to walking out of second or third crap dealership.

What I'm interjecting here is like if someone gets screwed by some dealership say over a pickup truck or vinivan. Said person may happen into above dealership and drive out very pleased. Also in big Metro area there are just to many people around to use the words "I will tell all my friends" These guys do not care, not on a car like the new Mustang. Someone will buy it at higher price. Just not us, we know better. Joe and Jane Public do not. We are 6,000 strong, Joe and Jane, well they are Millions.

xr7g428

Well, we will see what happens.

I can certainly understand why Kintaro would not want to buy from these clowns.

Badsnake, are you an attorney? I don't think so. Be careful with the legal advice. The only reason this would ever go to court is because Kintaro's real lawyer saw six figures in the settlement. The real issue would be why they refused him service. Video tape of the Police dragging him out of the dealership is exactly the kind of thing that would create a big settlement. You have no idea how much the law sides with the consumer. How do you think people end up winning settlements over spilled coffee?

The dealership accepted money. They offered a document to support the transaction. The concept in law is called offer and acceptance. There is no secret handshake involved here. The exact form of the contract is not spelled out in the law.

There are different levels of responsibility of the different parties. The dealer is expected to have a very high level of responsibility; they are the professionals. The consumer is not expected to have the same degree of knowledge, and is PROTECTED by the law from the more pwerful party.

Kintaro did not expect to buy an opportunity to some day maybe buy a car. He signed an agreement that by its very existance indicates that there was an understanding that the dealer would order a certain car to be sold at a certain price. The purpose of the signature was to bind Kintaro. The document itself binds the dealership.

The employees of the dealership are all agents of the company, it does not require a specific person to "make the deal". Those rules do exist, but they are there to limit the actions of the employees, they do not limit the responsibility of the dealership. If the lot porter wrecks your car, it doesn't matter whether he had permission of his boss, the dealership is resonsible.

Given just how right Kintaro might be, the guys at the dealership are looking at probably about a $5K spread between what they agreed to with Kintaro, and what they can sell the car for today. It all depends on whether kintaro can make them think that selling to him is less painful than missing out on the $5K. It's all Kintaros decision. It's his money and his time.

Badsnke98

Ouch! How does does it feel to be down 100K year to date? stinks I know from life. I hope the price finally climbs up. I too hold Ford.

Sad part is Ford legally can not controll its Dealers prices or the deals they make with customers. If Ford could half of them would losse their Dealership rights. And half the other Automobile Dealers as well.

xr7g428

Ford is very limited in what they can do to control prices at retail. The window sticker (the Monroney sticker) came into existence because of dealer gouging following WWII. Ford claims to be interested in regain some kind of control. As a stock holder I think it is outrageous that the Ford GT is selling at such a premium, and Ford is sharing in none of it. It looks like they simply have no idea how to price the product.

Dealer price gouging has probably cut potential Mustang sales in half. Of course the decision to only build in one plant pretty well set that course in concrete.

I bought most of my Ford stock at less than $9 in anticipation of the new F150 and Mustang launches. The F150 delivered, but so far the Mustang hasn't moved to stock one bit. I will be out the next time we go over $15.

I hope you did think that I was flaming your opinion here. I would just hate to see the dealer get the better of a nice decent guy. The point I was trying to make is that the law really does not protect the dealership from their own bad behavior. I would agree with you that the legal system isn't going to resolve this unless it becomes a much bigger deal.

Have we ever been given the name of the dealership?

Badsnke98

Bill,
No, I'm not an attorney.

Respectfully, I ask are you sir? If so, bring it on please.

I do not see where I handed out legal advise. Only passed on what I learned from my experiences with all above.

I do not think Eddie would go for, or even get that kind of video tape. My opinon.

We here are not talking about hot coffee from McDonalds. That was personal injury and self inflected at that. Although in my opinon, their coffee was too hot, before the lawsuit. What if she spilled her own coffee in her own house? Undeserving woman IMO and something the brakes need to be put on.

What I'm covering is the fact Eddie has no signed "VEHICLE PURCHASE ORDER", at the bottom front of document is the location of signatures. The right side column states. "This Order shall not become binding until Dealer's authorized representative's signature appears here." _____________________

So you are saying the above, is just for kicks. Means nothings? Eddie does not need an authorized representative's signature to bind the deal? Eddie does not even have that document minus the signature required. Although I did just look at my wifes vehicle purchase order and there is no sig in that location. Although the GM at second dealership himself during a friendly discussion told her he would except the X-plan. That is the difference of an honest deal.

On the VOC that Eddie signed states as follows. I, EDUARDO FLORES, have thoroughly reviewed the above specifications and I am confirming that this is the vehicle to be ordered by signing below. And that alone binds the Dealer to sell Eddie the car, without a purchase agreement and locks in price? Then he should go for it. (Still why should Eddie, give that dealer the sale, after this, right?) If above is to be true did it make a difference that our first order was by salesperson placed as A-plan, when we stressed X-plan?

Reguardless, who owns the ordered vehicle? Only the Dealership can purchase a vehicle from Ford Motor Co. Eddie can not, right? Therefore can not the Dealership do whatever it wants to with a vehicle they own, after all it is their vehicle? For that matter, there is no known VIN# to help out here, if that could be a factor here.

All that Eddie, or anyone willing to order a new vehicle could look forward to is the possibly some day be able to purchase that same optioned vehicle. Where is the guaranty here. There is no guaranty that vehicle will be so provided and therefore they'd be required to refund any deposit monies.

Bill, from your quote above, "Those rules do exist, but they are there to limit the actions of the employees, they do not limit the responsibility of the dealership. If the lot porter wrecks your car, it doesn't matter whether he had permission of his boss, the dealership is resonsible."

I respond, if the porter wrecks your car while on the clock at said Dealership. I agree the Dealership is responsibe to make vehicle whole again. That is damage to personal property. That is not the type of damage we are discussing here.

Therefore you are saying the Dealership is responsible for the deals and orders that an unauthorized employee makes. Then I ask why pay the General Sales Managers Salary? Unnecessary cost or somebodies brother-in-law? And is this GMS just trying damage controll per say? Or new found agreed is what I believe.

Just learning from life to do things the sensible and correct. Also if a mistake or lack of knowledge is mine, I accept it as so and go on. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Bruce

Edit

After reading your last post. I hope we are on the same page now somewhat. Peace and welcome to the TMS.

I have owned Ford and done well in past and lost big on others. I also have purchased again last year in hopes of Mustang and other new vehicles. The economy is bad in home State.

xr7g428

After 13 years of college, including law school, I developed the good sense to pass on becoming a lawyer. The opportunities coming out of law school just were not that great. Besides, I don't even like wearing a tie, much less a suit. I think that I am still eligble to take the bar exam should good sense ever fail me.

I really don't disagree with you on the practical stand points. It is absolutely reprehensible that anyone should have to work that hard to SPEND money! The high ground says take back the deposit and walk. The Mustang fanatic says just get the car and then get the he11 out of there.