im looking to buy some offroad x pipes for my 5.0. i see that the pipes with catalytic converters are way more expensive than the ones without. is it worth it? do i need the converters? is it worth saving money by not getting them? any info would be appreciated?

 

It mainly depends on what your state says. NC says that all original equipment must be in place and appear to be functional on non OBD II vehicles. However many inspection shops dont look under the car so many guys run off road H- or X-pipes. THe best thing to do would be to ask somebody who know about state inspection but dont ask your inspector since they might become suspiciuos.

 

Catalytic converters are required under federal law regardless of state. A moderator at www.svtperformance.com who is a federal law enforcement officer said the federal penalty for removing properly working cats is $10,000 per cat.
If you aren't worried about that, a cat-less pipe will be much louder than even a hi-flow cat-equipped pipe. 'Pypes' brand claims their catted x-pipe only loses 2 or so horsepower compared to their off-road pipe so I guess it depends on how loud and how legal you want your car to be.

Hotrod- If NC shops don't check under the car for inspections I'd be scared driving on the roads there!!! What if the suspension and floor boards are rotted out????

 

if your state doesn't have emissons, get the off road pipes, all cats are good for is collecting dust....well and their are some legality issues in some states Angelo- as for that law, i've never heard of such a thing, are u sure thats federal?? i know that here all you get is a 250 dollar fine and a fix-it ticket. and for the cars, they don't check underneath here either, but they can smell it if the vehicle doesn't have cats, you'll know instantly. as for floorboards and suspension pieces, in NY they seem to be optional

 

I am positive it is illegal by federal law to remove working cats from any vehicle intended for highway use, model years 1974-present. That doesn't mean there isn't any cars out there running without cats, I'm sure theres plenty. Its just that every time one of these cat. conv. threads is created I want people to know there is more to emisssions laws than just State regulations. Here in Pennsylvania we even have different emissisions testing for each county!

If you want to check up on the 10,000 dollar fine you can PM 'FordSVTFan' at www.svtperformance.com, he is where I learned of that. Now, that fine is most likely the maximum penalty and thats only if a cop actually looks underneath the car if you ever get pulled over, I haven't heard of anyone actually getting fined that much but I wouldn't be surprised in somewhere like southern California...

 

It is by state. My brother lives in Michigan where there is no emissions check. I am in NJ and there is an emissions test. I am currently running an off road H pipe (NO CATS) and I love it. I try not to step on the gas so much around cops though, it would be a dead giveaway since this thing is so LOUD.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its that simple, properly functioning catalytic converters are illegal to remove by FEDERAL law, it doesn't matter what state you live in. Just because an inspection garage passed your cat-less vehicle doesn't mean its legal!

 

this is a copy and paste from what FordSVTFan at SVTP told me:

"The E.P.A.'s website make numerous statements regarding the legality of removing Catalytic converters.

Here is one

http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resou...ile/admem1a.pdf

Another

http://www.catalytic-converter-info.com/remove.html

The federal Clean Air Act [203 (a) (3) (A) and (B] does not allow anyone to replace a catalytic converter with “replacement pipes�. Improper removal or installation of a catalytic converter by any individual could result in stiff fines and/or imprisonment.
The only time when removal of a catalytic converter is allowed is when the vehicle is being shipped to a country that does not sell unleaded gasoline. The vehicle owner must have a letter from the EPA authorizing the catalytic converter’s removal. Vehicles sent to Canada or Mexico are not eligible for this exemption."

 

It is as simple as this. If you live in a state without emmisions testing, have them taken off. Go with a non-catted midpipe. If you live in a state with emissions testing either get a midpipe with highflow cats, or one without cats and change it back come time to take it to get the emissions check done. If you get caught with no cats on the car, then say you bought it that way. It is also illegal by federal law to remove those little tags on mattreses, but how many people do you know that have gotten fined for it?

 

Pleading ignorance to the cops won't always get you off, its your car, you're responsible for it. I don't care what people do with their cats. I'll be the first to admit that I don't care for government regulation and I hate the environment (who prefers fresh air to the smell of 110 octane burning?). I just want everyone to be aware that if a cop happens to do an on-the-spot inspection and see's no cats, you could get a major fine. It's unlikely, but still possible depending on what kind of cop you get.
I think its illegal only for the furniture store to remove those tags, but how many mattresses go roaring down the street at WOT drawing attention to themselves?

 

Im more interested in the performance aspect of this topic. Ive only ever run my car's with cats so i dont know which one runs better...that info on state laws is interesting to know tho.....

 

Go catless. You will not regret it. I know I don't. That sound and performance is awesome.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrizzle17 @ February 3, 2006, 10:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Im more interested in the performance aspect of this topic. Ive only ever run my car's with cats so i dont know which one runs better...that info on state laws is interesting to know tho.....
[/b][/quote]
Honestly, ditching the stock cats is your main performance gain. There is VERY little difference hp wise between running no cats, and running a good set of high flow cats.

 

thanks guys

 

Not to go too off topic but is congress thinking about passing a law for cars under the years of 1996 do not need to go for emissions anymore starting Feb of next year? Is this a rumor? This has been going around all over my auto tech classes. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] Anyone heard of that before?

 

Not sure. NC only requires safety inspections for cars 95 and older. I think that cars from 68 or 69 down dont even have to have an inspection at all.

 

I haven't heard anything about removing cars from the list required for emissions testing either. In my inspection classes the kids were always spreading rumors about emissions laws being repealed but when you read the newspapers they report the exact opposite, at least for Pennsylvania. Emissions testing does differ from state to state and is the state's law so I'm not sure what congress can do about it. 1996 was the first year for OBDII and in certain regions of PA (philly and pittsburgh) those '96 and newer cars do get a different, more involved emissions test but the '95 and older cars still get tested (gas cap pressure test, visual check). So I have a feeling that is a rumor you heard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrizzle17 @ January 28, 2006, 6:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
im looking to buy some offroad x pipes for my 5.0. i see that the pipes with catalytic converters are way more expensive than the ones without. is it worth it? do i need the converters? is it worth saving money by not getting them? any info would be appreciated?
[/b][/quote]
Maybe this is unique to me, but when I put on an offroad pipe, my engine computer went nuts, making my car ('90 GT), run super rich, to the point where you couldn't stand next to it while it was running, because of the smell. I also LOST power, and got MAYBE 100 miles to a tank of gas. Couldn't get a highflow Xpipe (Bassani) on the car fast enough after that. Just something to consider.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daddypop @ February 12, 2006, 11:33 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Maybe this is unique to me, but when I put on an offroad pipe, my engine computer went nuts, making my car ('90 GT), run super rich, to the point where you couldn't stand next to it while it was running, because of the smell. I also LOST power, and got MAYBE 100 miles to a tank of gas. Couldn't get a highflow Xpipe (Bassani) on the car fast enough after that. Just something to consider.
[/b][/quote]
Umm yea, this is really odd. It almost make me think something happened to your o2 sensors when the mid pipe was installed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joker @ February 12, 2006, 11:37 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Umm yea, this is really odd. It almost make me think something happened to your o2 sensors when the mid pipe was installed.
[/b][/quote]
I can't tell for sure if the O2 sensors were damaged before or after I changed out the pipe. They were pretty much ruined when I swapped to the high flow pipe, but I attribute that to the engine running so rich. Other people I know who have switched to an offroad pipe haven't told me of similar problems, except for the poor mileage, so maybe my sensors were the culprit.