PonymanB

I've looked through over 300+ threads, but have been unable to find exactly what I need to know. I'm starting this new thread to see if I can get the info I need to do it right. I've met some great people here that have helped with anothe issue I was working on, and hopefully will be successful in the conclusion of that matter.

Earlier last week, I began securing the parts I need to convert my 1967 Mustang coupe form regular taillights to the taillights used in the 1968 GT/CS and Shelby GT500/GT500KR. My research from this forum has led me to understand that those taillights were initially from a 1964 Thunderbird. Since I've been able to secure a beautiful set of housings, pigtails, lenses and the chrome trim, it's obvious I'm committed to the change. My reason for selecting this version is because I'm partial to their styling and functionality.

My dilemma is, that I don't have the wiring harness to integrate them into my vehicle. The questions I have are many and I will list them here now:

1) Is the correct harness to use for this conversion the complete taillight wiring harness from a 1964 Thunderbird or a 1965 Thunderbird?
2) Besides the wiring harness that attaches to the pigtails, are there any other parts that are paramount to this working flawlessly? If so, what are they and is there an exact part list/compatibility-interchangeability that crosses over to other brands in the Ford corporation.
3) If there are other parts, what are they specifically and are there any wiring diagrams available to show the correct way to connect everything?
4) Once all the correct parts are secured, what is the exact mounting locations needed for it to function without problems, are there brackets needed for this?
5) If the 1964/1965 Thunderbird harness and attachments are the correct parts, are they completely compatible with the plugs from the Mustang harness?
6) Are there any parts that must be changed under the dash to allow for full functionality and delayed sequential action while using the turn signals?
7) I am retrofitting and completing the install of a functional Courtesy Convenience Panel system, and wonder are there any alterations I must make to the original harness so all of this is able to work in tandem without issues.
8) The car will have other unusual options added to make it the version I would have bought in 1967. Such as 6,000 rpm tachometer w/ tripometer, instrument cluster analog clock, the tilt-away steering column,the rear window defroster, rear speakers (stock type), a factory available reverberation component added to the correct AM/8-track radio and finally a complete Deluxe Interior with lower and upper consoles to complement the already gorgeous interior it has. My hope, is that it will be as beautiful to view as it is to create. Does anyone see issues with all of this together?
9) If there are additional things I should address, please feel free to enlighten me. I want to do this right and learn so I may help others in the future.
10) Because of the addition of all these options, should I consider upgrading the charging system to a larger capacity battery and stronger alternator/regulator? What about increasing the rating of the appropriate fuses? Can the stock fuse box/ harness handle the increased load?

It is obviously an area of contention for some that are purists, but this car has no special classifications or original options. It is my wish to make my Darling into the Belle of the Ball for me to enjoy and pass on in my family. All help would be appreciated and to those who have already put me on the correct path, I thank you. I look forward to any assistance and look forward to working with all the great people here on this board. Once I've got everything I need, a restoration/resto-mod thread of my project will be created. I'm excited and nervous regarding the scope of the endeavor, but to forge forward is my goal. All pictures will happen as I get going with this. Have a great day.
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HOSS429

talk to "elspeth" .. see what he did

PonymanB

A PM has been sent

HOSS429

he did it on a later model but the function may be the same

houtex

I am curious... would not one of those 'stick' versions of the sequentials work, and simply splicing as needed accomplish the task? I know the kits are available as splicers instead of complete kits for 2005-2009... You could use one of those and make it work, I'm thinking, since you have everything you'll need to accomplish the task... it is simply a matter of wiring it all up. Heck even the 'plug and play' ones would simply require a little wiring and off ya go, I think.

Unless I missed the point of just having to use the old school versions of sequencers... Ah well.

Oh, and don't worry about makin' the car what YOU want. That's the point, you ask me, of having a Mustang in the first place.

PonymanB

One of the reasons I started this thread, is because I have looked on many sites (including this one) and haven't found a comprehensive compilation of facts and information regarding this subject matter. I hope this will be a good source of info for someone else looking to do the same thing. With that in mind, I have further questions I need to ask. Since I'm definitely using the Thunderbird taillight assemblies (because I already have them and I like the styling of the set), it is apparent I will need the taillight wiring harness that attaches to the main harness. With that in mind, will I need a sequential relay/motor for each side or is one enough? Which one is the correct one, the "dynamite sticks" with a "flash can" fuse relay or the sequential relay motor with additional items? I've found about six versions of items that are for the sequential turn signals found on Shelby's , GT/CS AND T-birds or Cougars. This creates a mind-numbing level of confusion for finding a solution. All answers are greatly appreciated and thanks to all for the help being given on all levels.

houtex

Well, having owned a '66 Thunderbird with the motorized can, I can highly suggest you use the Cougar ones, as they're solid state, but I'd really be looking at a set for 2005 Mustangs, for example, because they'd be perfect and easily wired.

Also, having had Muskrat (below), complete with '88 Mustang GT seats with working lumbars, 78 Tbird overhead lamp with maps, and '78 Tbird motorized antenna, all of which required wiring and mounting modifications to the '66 Mustang body somehow, I can say without reservation that all you need is the two sequencers, whichever you want to use, 3 sockets that will fit the housing with pigtail wires on them, and a bench to solder up the setup and test, then the final connections on the car and retest. And probably a few fuses, but that's normal-ish.

That's it. I would probably get the splicer setup for '05-'09s and make it work, as it simply works on the incoming single bulb and converts it into sequencers, and it's relatively cheap to acquire.

I really wouldn't be taking up too much time for a period correct wiring harness or sequencers as the car isn't going to be period correct seeing as how it didn't come that way in the first place. Just make it work, and be proud YOU did it. Easy peasy, as Jaime Oliver would say.

However, if you did want to use a more period correct sequencer, such as the Cougar ones, that would be fine as well, the splicing is still what you'd need to do. Just a little soldering and some shrink wrap. And to test and make sure it's working, some wire nuts would be fine. Then just take them off and solder them permanent.

I have faith in ya. And write it up and post it here when yer done!

PonymanB

Howdy Houtex!
I couldn't see what you did to Muskrat (link didn't work), so I can't figure out the work you did. What company are you referring to when you mentioned splicing in a couple of sequencers to get the sequencing to work?

Everyone seems to be suggesting I should avoid the Thunderbird setup and stuff and go with the Cougar setup. Is that because the Cougar items are easier to procure and more dependable? From what I can tell, the Cougar taillight assemblies use four lights compared to the T-bird's three. I already have the 1965 Thunderbird taillight assemblies (lenses,trim, housing and connected pigtails). All I need to get the system completed is the turn signal relay, the stop light relay, the turn signal flasher and motor, the turn signal indicator relay and the taillight harness itself.

The only thing about that I don't understand, is that the Mustang uses a flasher can for the turn signal relay and that's different than the one used by the Thunderbird. I would have assumed that Ford would make their harnesses universal so they can keep down costs between sub-divisions. I'm finding out that whatever direction I'm going, each one is expensive and the parts either aren't reproduced or the price is whack because everyone thinks this stuff is Shelby-bound and should pay off their mortgage. Sorry, rant there...not directed at you or any of our Forum members.

PonymanB

I'm really getting into this hunt and discern on this site. I'm impressed with the skills and stuff i see. I'm still hoping for more direction and possibly answers to the specific questions I've presented. It's interesting the possibilities I see from the solutions offered.

houtex

Man... my silly web provider... Pfft. Well, I'd done a ton of work on her. Hand vinyled all the interior in red, instead of painting that textured metal inside, red carpeted the trunk, complete with filler neck shroud and a new floor to cover the taller '67 fuel tank. Front and back 88 Red Mustang GT hatcback seats complete with fold downs in the back... the fit like a glove back there, honest!

Lesse.. hadda rebuild the pax scoop on the quarter by hand... the afore mentioned antenna, maplight and lumbars... Oh yeah, my own stereo setup with twin boom cannons in the trunk wells... primered the car underneath... on jacks.. with a mask and goggles... so fun...

Oh, dad did the engine and compartment in T-code red, so the car was white outside, red inside, through and through. Even did the wiring harness in the engine bay to be red electrical tape instead of the black. The accessories were in white, such as the air cleaner, linkage, etc... even painted the numbers white.

And got aluminum wheels 15x7s with biggest tires I could find and fit... did all my measurements myself, and it drove and rode *great* on those BFGs.

Did I mention it was a 6 cylinder? Yep, Sprint 200. So when I say I had the exhaust dualed out with Thrush CVXs, you understand that was a little bit of fun having the y pipe made. Sounded pretty nifty, looked good in the back with the dual chrome tips.

Most work was done by me or my dad, except the engine rebuild, tranny rebuild, over about 2 years of weekends. I had lotsa help, even if it was just talking about what to do, but the people who helped know who they are and I do still appreciate it to this day... even if I don't have Muskrat anymore, the journey was still fun in figuring out how to be different from the pack.

Which is why I'm all gung ho on you figuring out and wiring it up your way, forget what others have done. If it works, and it's great, then it's GREAT.

I'll get the website working again, thanks for lettin' me know.

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re: the Cougar's, it's a solid state electronic system, no moving parts. The Tbird ones are a can with a motor, cam, and follower switches. They're noisy, and they break sometimes. You can just not have a fourth, or a first, depending on your mood, with the Cougar's and it will still work overall. But that's why I like the idea of the 1996 and up Mustang ones because they're three lights, small, and easy to work with.

But again, it's YOUR STUFF. Do it how you want to. It's awesomer that way, y'know.

PonymanB

My, my, my, Mr. HOUTEX. You and your father were quite the trailblazers and very artistic about it too. A six-cylinder dual exhaust with a Y-pipe type header assembly is very avante garde. I look forward to see it when the website is back up.

It sounds like I need to revisit my choice for the type of donor system I use. I like systems and parts that are durable, but it appears my selection of the Thunderbird taillight assembly/system aren't really known for that. Not to mention, finding affordable parts from Thunderbirds are turning out to be difficult. Some seem to believe those parts are sacrosanct and should be for Shelby's ONLY.

Since I've got feelers out for both types, I'll just continue and sort it all out after I've got everything I need for the project. Very interesting though, that the Cougar would be more durable and use "solid state electronics" instead of just using what was already available fro the Thunderbirds (save money for FOMOCO bean counters). But then again, the Mercury Cougar was supposed to be the more elegant younger brother of the Mustang.

For what it's worth, I look to others for examples of how to do things, because I hope to learn from their experiences and gain from their hard fought-for knowledge. I fully intend to do what I need to make this whole thing mine, but I want to do this right. My father once told me long ago, anyone can put something together and make it work to get by. But a true craftsman will do it correctly so it looks like it always belonged there to begin with. Because Mustangs have been around for well over forty-five years, there's a LOT of knowledge out there and all we can hope for, is that we can add to it while learning from those that came before us. I will say this, I'm definitely gonna "Gitter'done" and anyone that sees my girl will KNOW she's mine...my fingerprint will be seen everywhere on her. Thanks for your support and PLEASE continue with the cheerleading, it helps. I'm still looking for answers to all this, but I'm learning every step of the way.

PonymanB

According to the 1967/1968 Mustang wiring diagram, the connections from the main harness (14401)to the rear taillight wiring harness (14405) consists of two connection plugs. On the main harness, the first is a three-pin rubber molded connector with two male pins and one female pin. The second is a plastic click-lock connector with what appears to be a three-pin (all male). These both connect to connectors that mirror them on the Mustang taillight harness. This is very different from the harness connectors used on the 1965 Thunderbird taillight harness for the sequential taillight system.

The wiring diagram for the 1965 Thunderbird harness has the main harness connecting to two connectors on the taillight harness. The taillight harness connectors are both eight pin, one has seven male pins and one female and the other with five male pins and three female. Both connectors appear to be rubber molded connectors.

I don't have a wiring diagram for the Mercury Cougar to compare the difference, so this is just one scenario I'm seeing. Does any one have any answers to this or solutions? I'm assuming that there has been people that have done this change using the older parts (not the LED solution offered by MustangProject.com). I've figured out the relays and sequential modulator needed, but have seen that there are at least four variations of these. I'm hoping SOMEONE can help for this.

PonymanB

I want to express my appreciation to all that attempted to assist in this fact-finding mission . I have spent many hours going over an enormous amount of data and various wiring diagrams. There is only one conclusion that I can make. In order to get either the Cougar OR the T-Bird taillight systems to work, I will have to cannibalize various harnesses to make it work with a Mustang main harness. If there are other options, please enlighten me. The only other idea I can come up with is to locate a main harness and a taillight harness made specifically for the 1967/1968 Shelby Mustang. Either way, that increases the cost factor exponentially .

If you have made offers of assistance or parts, I appreciate it AND still need them. I sincerely and most definitely am grateful for what you've offered to do . I still will continue to obtain the necessary parts I need to continue, hoping that I will figure this out. I still want it to look and work like the way it would if it was done in 1967/1968. My hope is, that someone can offer me information that will shed further light on what I can do to make this look and act the way I want. If anyone has pictures of what all this looks like installed, I'd appreciate it if they'd post them or email me with them attached.

Should I fail, I always have the alternative suggested by many to use the "MustangProject" system. It's definitely a self-contained and perfected system. I just really don't want to go this route. I initially started this thread to get questions answered and to look for help figuring it out. I am beginning to understand what I'm about to undertake and frankly, I'm a bit daunted. No matter what happens, I will someday create a thread to show how I did it and the progress as it unfolds.