nota4re

I am VERY much the skeptic when I read all of the claims of the CAI manufacturers.

1) I don't think Ford engineers are so stupid as to leave 19 HP on the table because their intake pipe was so restrictive. Doh!!
2) The only (positive) dyno charts I have seen have been marketing cartoons (not real dyno data).
3) Early buyers who have put the CAI-equipped car on a dyno and done measurements have seen NO improvement. Nada. Nothing.
4) To which the manufactures have suggested some absurd stand on your head dyno testing procedure wasn't followed - which, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense.
5) And then there's this header test - where the results are literally instantaneous. The ECU IS definitely compensating. No cartoon graphs. No stand on your head silly test procedures, just results.

Maybe, just maybe, the OEM intake isn't so bad.... and the Ford Coyote engine dudes aren't so stupid?? The CF CAI is very sexy looking and I might get one just for that. Actually, I'm thinking about the Accufab TB AND a CAI... and for sure we would publish real dyno results here!

nota4re

The first thing that EVERY Boss owner needs to understand is that the Boss ECU IS different. The biggest change is that the car has wideband sensors (one for each bank) and has the ability to monitor AND REACT to A/F's. NO former Mustang has had this capability. All Ford products prior to these latest-gen Mustangs only know if they are above or below 14.7:1 (the capability of a typical O2 sensor), but these Boss motors have realtime actual A/F data (via the widebands) to interpret and react to. So, even programming a Boss IS different than any other Ford product - or prior Mustang.

As I mentioned, we are installing this entire Kooks set-up on my LS - with the exception that I will use the Kook's cats. (Say "Kook's cats" 5 times real fast! lol) My expectation is that I will have NO CEL. We hope to be done tomorrow and I will get it back to the dyno either Tuesday or Wednesday.

2 Go Snake

Very interesting data. Thanks for all the information and indepth explanations. I appreciate the weight savings numbers.

black_bullitt

Awesome!!!
I'd love to see a video comparing the sound between stock and full exhaust!

MustangFanatic

Awesome data, thanks Kendall!! The Kooks system is now on my list of required mods for my Boss!!

adam81

Thanks for the reply Kendall. This is shaping up to be great news. I have to say that I VERY much appreciate the information you provide of your testing. I haven't seen any BS from you. Just honest results whatever they may be..... It is refreshing in this industry.

When you said "We saved 27 lbs of weight with the H-pipe back " is that to include the h pipe or everything after it?

Another idea, and I know a lot of us would appreciate the info/testing, is to use those spark plug foulers for the o2 sensors to prevent the CEL. No wires, or anything electric to go bad. Just screw them in place and screw the o2 sensor into them. Now admittedly I don't know the cons of these things without a tune. Do they scew with what the o2 senosrs read thus the sensors send back scewed info??? I know the twin turbo Audi S4 guys use these things all the time with great results and no issues. However they are not wideband......

Either way this system is very enticing.... Again thank you for the honest results.

12C/OBoss

They work great!! Also all new 5.0's are wideband for the front o2's...the rears are ONLY there to measure for PO400 Catalytic efficiency. So technically you could remove them and the car would run fine...unless with zero signal the car goes into a limp mode per the manufacturer's coding in the PCM.


BTW I had a stage 2 plus S4 and ran no cats at all and ran the foulers no issues! That car was a blast! Imola Yellow 2001.5 Sport package and black and gray alcantara interior...loved it!

nota4re

You will save 27 lbs of weight by simply replacing the H-pipe back section of the exhaust. (Kook's and other manufacturers call this a cat-back system although technically it is H-Pipe back... but 100% 50-state legal since it is AFTER the cats.) Most of the savings is in replacing the very heavy OEM mufflers. In the car we dyno's, we had also replaced the OEM H-pipe AND removed the CATs. This netted us an ADDITIONAL 16 lbs of weight savings - mostly from the weight of the OEM CATs.

Total weight savings on this "project car" is:

27 lbs from CAT-back + 16 lbs from No CATs + 19 lbs from aluminum driveshaft = 62 lbs saved (so far)!!

The rear O2 sensors are only there for catalytic efficiency. The rear O2 sensors are NOT widebands. The ECU does NOT use the rear O2's for real-time engine calibration.

P0 Corsa

Interesting Kendall and I agree with you.

I early on expressed interest in a CAI for my Boss with Ford engineers citing the claimed 15-20 hp gain (advertised). They chuckled in amusement stating the upstream side of the air intake on our car is very efficient with little flow restrictions. They were highly suspect as to the purported gains. That is why we like to discuss actual measured dyno DATA.

Granted the CF CAI does look very nice and is eye candy for under the hood, but until further performance gains are repeatedly substantiated, to me this offering remains a cosmetic addition.

Thanks again for your diligent testing, rigorous protocols and data reporting to us owners!

adam81

Excuse my confusion but I want to be clear.... Did you see 27 lbs saved WITHOUT including the h-pipe? Basically everything after the h-pipe, but not including it. Then are you saying that you saved another 19 lbs from the stock h-pipe change over to the Kooks h-pipe with no cats?

nota4re

Some of you have asked about the necessity for a tune with the full header & exhaust system. Here are a couple of A/F charts to give you some comparisons.

This first chart is the A/F's from the runs where I initially posted showing the HP/TQ improvements. Notice that the Kook's car is actually running richer from about 5500 RPM up.




On this second chart, I've added Black Key vs Track Key comparisons. Easiest to explain the higher end of the graph - then you can trace backwards. The bottom pair of lines are the stock and Kooks car with the Black Key and the top (leaner) pair of lines is from the Stock and Kooks Red Key program. (Note: I think I may prefer Black Key at the track!!)

nota4re

Completely off-topic - with the possible exception of those few of you that have followed our Ford GT accomplishments, I just thought I would show our best-so-far Boss dyno results compared to one of the several Ford GT twin-turbos that we have done. (This particular Ford GT TT is the current record holder over ALL 4-wheel'd vehicles at the Mojave Mile venue.) What's the point? Well, none really, because I think the Boss is fast.... but whenever I drive one of the TT's, it's an entirely different world!

P0 Corsa

Agreed (again). The 5.4 is a pretty amazing robust engine!
Is the TT one from Jason or Shadow? (or yours?)
Thanks for the "off topic" reality check....

And very inciteful observation of A/F ratios between the black/red key tunes in the upper rpm regions. I think I would prefer the black tune as well.

nota4re

Give me a break!! Shallowman has never built a TT. This is a Jason kit that we have significantly tweaked/modified. NO other TT has this kind of power under the curve!!

P0 Corsa

Whooooops!
Sorry, I forgot.....
Awesome numbers.

Apollo

I really can't tell you all how fortunate we all are to have Kendall and his no bull approach to performance. Also the detail of the work and products are unmatched.

PACETTR

Note about warranty concerns with a full aftermarket exhaust system:

IMO, there is a 99% probability your warranty WILL be voided. This of course shouldn't apply to a/c compressor, power steering, etc, but good luck getting a melted piston covered.

BUYER BEWARE

I will ABSOLUTELY install this system on my 2013 when I get it, but I am aware of the risks.

JBG

Kendall
As usual very useful information and documented results. This will be on my short list of mods during the winter. I would like to know your impression of the db level after the sides are blocked off. A few of my neighbors have sensitive ears and put up with one vocal vehicle but 2 may be pushing it.
John

PTRocks

Here's a video showing the new products for 2012, including the Boss headers and H-pipe.

nota4re

OK, we got back over to the dyno yesterday and had a chance to put my LS on the rollers. At the beginning of this thread, we published results of my car (stock at the time) compared to another LS where we had just installed Kooks Headers, H-pipe (no cats), and mufflers. Very impressive differences. However now we have a test that may be more accurate. The results remain very impressive - although a little less pronounced than when we used two different cars.

Having established a baseline with my car when it was stock, we now re-tested my car with the Kooks Headers (1.75" primaries), H-Pipe WITH Cats, and Kook's mufflers.

The results are that we got an almost consistent 15-20 HP across the entire RPM range and peak advantages around 3500RPM of 25HP. Similarly, TQ was improved across the RPM band, with a fat spot of +40 in the same ~3500 RPM mark.

I've also included an A/F chart to show how the ECU is accounting for and correcting A/F's for the headers. In fact, you will see that in the upper RPM range, the car is now running richer WITH the headers.