'13-14 Cluster into '10-12 car (with TrackApps) retrofit
4/13/14, 06:49 PM
#1502
Mach 1 Member
LEXiiON, True the GT-500 (Shelby's) used the "Spanish Oak" PCM from 2007-2011-MY's.
But begining in 2012-MY, the GT-500's Started using the Newer "Copperhead" PCM...
This I am sure of, as My Neighbor does have a 2012 Mustang GT-500, and yes his has the Copperhead PCM....
From what I have been told, the GT-500 also switched to having Wide band O2's in '12, and this coupled with the Launch Control, and the Adjustable EPAS, necessitated the need for the Shelby to also switch to a "Faster" PCM, even though both the '12's "Condor" 5.4 and the '13-'14's "Trinity" 5.8's don't employ the TiVCT systems on their 4 Cams....
Sean
But begining in 2012-MY, the GT-500's Started using the Newer "Copperhead" PCM...
This I am sure of, as My Neighbor does have a 2012 Mustang GT-500, and yes his has the Copperhead PCM....
From what I have been told, the GT-500 also switched to having Wide band O2's in '12, and this coupled with the Launch Control, and the Adjustable EPAS, necessitated the need for the Shelby to also switch to a "Faster" PCM, even though both the '12's "Condor" 5.4 and the '13-'14's "Trinity" 5.8's don't employ the TiVCT systems on their 4 Cams....
Sean
Doesn't look too good. Well, I probably have to live without TrackApps then, unless I swap something else.
That might explain, why when I open a session with my PCM code in IDS it can't talk to the ABS and once I open a session with a 2013 code, it can't talk to my PCM...
Yes, TrackApps and 2010's might be a challenge...
However, we just need to get the ABS module to talk to the PCM during init... Compare VIN or so... Maybe there is a way?
There is a copperhead PCM on sale on eBay.... I am not sure how much work it is to get that one running.... Probably too much, just to get TrackApps
LEXiiON
Last edited by LEXiiON; 4/13/14 at 06:57 PM.
4/13/14, 07:34 PM
#1503
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Didn't mean to Rain on anybodies parade....Man, I feel like a stick in the mud now...
And LEXiiON, by the way, More than just a few Members at other Sites, (and even a few at the Site I am an Admin. at) have had "Copperhead" PCM's installed into their '07's, and a few in their '08-'09 Bullits, and a Whole bunch that own 2010-MY's....
From what I gather the switch over to the "Copperhead" makes for Much better tuning, with those guys that have installed Forced Induction, along with Wide band O2's ......
Albeit these are guys that are making a "Gazillion" HP, but all swear that the only REAL safe way to do so, is by switching over to the Copperhead PCM, along with Dual Bank wide-bands....Don't forget, the HEGO's that are used in the 2005-2010's are really just "Rich/Lean" indicators....The Big change for the 2010-MY Strategy (Hence the name change to "SILVER Spanish Oak" was the implementation of "Adaptive Fuel Technology" (AFT) which means that the use of Higher Octane Fuels, would result in the PCM auto-upping the Timing for an increase in both HP/Tq when Premium Fuels were used.....
Sean.
And LEXiiON, by the way, More than just a few Members at other Sites, (and even a few at the Site I am an Admin. at) have had "Copperhead" PCM's installed into their '07's, and a few in their '08-'09 Bullits, and a Whole bunch that own 2010-MY's....
From what I gather the switch over to the "Copperhead" makes for Much better tuning, with those guys that have installed Forced Induction, along with Wide band O2's ......
Albeit these are guys that are making a "Gazillion" HP, but all swear that the only REAL safe way to do so, is by switching over to the Copperhead PCM, along with Dual Bank wide-bands....Don't forget, the HEGO's that are used in the 2005-2010's are really just "Rich/Lean" indicators....The Big change for the 2010-MY Strategy (Hence the name change to "SILVER Spanish Oak" was the implementation of "Adaptive Fuel Technology" (AFT) which means that the use of Higher Octane Fuels, would result in the PCM auto-upping the Timing for an increase in both HP/Tq when Premium Fuels were used.....
Sean.
4/13/14, 08:02 PM
#1504
Mach 1 Member
Sean,
i know the other site pretty well... I mean switching to Copperhead sounds logical... but how much effort is it to really do it? Does Squidd know?
The Pin-outs look completely different, so i assume, that's a ton of work...
However i also found a difference in the wiring diagrams for the ABS from 2010 and 2011. Everything is the same except diagram 42-4.
Those are completely different... I can't seem to find the references for both. Anyone has any idea? As the 2010 wiring diagrams are a very rare find, here is the 42-4 for the 2010...
Thoughts?
LEXiiON
i know the other site pretty well... I mean switching to Copperhead sounds logical... but how much effort is it to really do it? Does Squidd know?
The Pin-outs look completely different, so i assume, that's a ton of work...
However i also found a difference in the wiring diagrams for the ABS from 2010 and 2011. Everything is the same except diagram 42-4.
Those are completely different... I can't seem to find the references for both. Anyone has any idea? As the 2010 wiring diagrams are a very rare find, here is the 42-4 for the 2010...
Thoughts?
LEXiiON
4/13/14, 08:15 PM
#1505
Mach 1 Member
Could it be, that those diagrams are different, because the 2010 has the hydraulic steering and needs a steering position switch, while the 2013 has the electronic steering and get's that information through the CAN bus?
That could lead to more challenges....
LEXiiON
That could lead to more challenges....
LEXiiON
4/14/14, 08:34 AM
#1506
Mach 1 Member
Correct all timing values are stock. Just a little pep, and got rid of that dead pedal.
4/14/14, 08:36 AM
#1507
Mach 1 Member
Never say never! 
Whats your current PCM hardware code?
-Matt
Oh oh...
Doesn't look too good. Well, I probably have to live without TrackApps then, unless I swap something else.
That might explain, why when I open a session with my PCM code in IDS it can't talk to the ABS and once I open a session with a 2013 code, it can't talk to my PCM...
Yes, TrackApps and 2010's might be a challenge...
However, we just need to get the ABS module to talk to the PCM during init... Compare VIN or so... Maybe there is a way?
There is a copperhead PCM on sale on eBay.... I am not sure how much work it is to get that one running.... Probably too much, just to get TrackApps
LEXiiON
Doesn't look too good. Well, I probably have to live without TrackApps then, unless I swap something else.
That might explain, why when I open a session with my PCM code in IDS it can't talk to the ABS and once I open a session with a 2013 code, it can't talk to my PCM...
Yes, TrackApps and 2010's might be a challenge...
However, we just need to get the ABS module to talk to the PCM during init... Compare VIN or so... Maybe there is a way?
There is a copperhead PCM on sale on eBay.... I am not sure how much work it is to get that one running.... Probably too much, just to get TrackApps
LEXiiON
-Matt
4/14/14, 08:58 AM
#1509
Mach 1 Member
4/14/14, 09:01 AM
#1510
Mach 1 Member
Here is what i have so far:
IDS says the following:
Strategy : FPBF2
Filename : FPBF2B3
Module Part Number : AR3AAED
So that would mean AR3A-12A650-AED
I looked at the PCM, no way to get the P/N without removing it. Can't do this at work. Have to confirm later.
LEXiiON
IDS says the following:
Strategy : FPBF2
Filename : FPBF2B3
Module Part Number : AR3AAED
So that would mean AR3A-12A650-AED
I looked at the PCM, no way to get the P/N without removing it. Can't do this at work. Have to confirm later.
LEXiiON
Last edited by LEXiiON; 4/14/14 at 09:58 AM.
4/14/14, 09:07 PM
#1511
Mach 1 Member
Well. I tried to get the PCM P/N off the module. *Rant on* It is on the small portion of the module, where it is snapped into the bracket. Cool idea Ford. Not even my Milwaukee camera can fit into that small gap. And the hole you guys put in there is completely useless! as it only reveals FoMoCo on the camera. Brilliant!! *Rant off*
It is probably easier to pull the dash and retrofit the Nav then getting that freaking P/N of the PCM...
I need some more time to do this. I tried the IDS P/N with Tousley's system and it came up not found.. Grrr
LEXiiON
It is probably easier to pull the dash and retrofit the Nav then getting that freaking P/N of the PCM...
I need some more time to do this. I tried the IDS P/N with Tousley's system and it came up not found.. Grrr
LEXiiON
4/19/14, 06:05 AM
#1514
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The "Guru's" will be back once they have something of significance to report, or, if they can find some time between their "Paid" jobs, and their Family duties..
.......Well on a lighter note, I just received My 2014 (Dual Path) Gauge Cluster from Tousley Ford
, I also ordered the 2014 Track Key for the GT's that have a build date of July 1 2013, OR, for those who like Me, decided to Swap their 2013-MY Clusters for the Late '14 "Dual Path" units.....Heck, Im one of those people that think that the '14's Gauges are not only have a much Nicer layout, and Font, but the '14 premium Gauges are just much easier to read, and I happen to think that the night time look, with the revised "Halo" actually Blows the Look of the 13's away!
By the way, do any of the Main Contributors "Electronic Guru's" need My '13 Cluster with the 4.2" "Track-Apps" screen, so they can go about, and continue to work out any of the final issues with regards to retrofitting the Pre-'13 Stangs. with the Track-Apps, and the other Digital Gauges that are located within
...Just Fire me off a PM, or just respond here...Sean.
4/19/14, 06:10 AM
#1515
Shelby GT350 Member
Join Date: September 11, 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
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Yes. 14 cluster is nicer looking. I'm surprised track key needs a special cluster since all 2011+ cars support MyKEY. I assume Boss Clusters are all Dual Path.
4/19/14, 02:06 PM
#1516
Legacy TMS Member
By the way, do any of the Main Contributors "Electronic Guru's" need My '13 Cluster with the 4.2" "Track-Apps" screen, so they can go about, and continue to work out any of the final issues with regards to retrofitting the Pre-'13 Stangs. with the Track-Apps, and the other Digital Gauges that are located within ...Just Fire me off a PM, or just respond here...
Sean.
...Just Fire me off a PM, or just respond here...Sean.
4/19/14, 03:41 PM
#1517
Mach 1 Member
4/22/14, 06:26 AM
#1518
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Apparently this thread was posted on a coyote only FB page and it blew up. People were calling Auto Nation Parts inquiring about getting the core charge back for their base clusters when they purchase a boss or premium(which was happening). Well I guess Ford got wise, and put out a notice to all dealers regarding the returns of base clusters for premium clusters, and now we are Effed. No more getting our $300 back for the base clusters if you buy a new cluster from Ford. Auto Nation still gives out the 10% over cost discount, but now this mod went from about $450 to $800 now..... ****.
