Lowering springs
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Joined: November 28, 2018
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From: Connecticut
Lowering springs
I have a friend that is having Steeda ultralight extreme springs installed in his 2020 Mustang later this week. The installer has told him that he does not need camber bolts or plates. It is a 2” drop. Can anyone confirm this. I can not believe that he would not at least need bolts. I really think he will need plates. I am trying to eliminate the chance of him getting to the alignment shop and having to have them pull it all apart again to put plates in. Thanks in advance for any answers.
Last edited by JimB.; Aug 10, 2020 at 02:42 PM.
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Joined: February 2, 2004
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From: Insane
The answer is... maybe. Well, actually, the answer's no, no plates needed. Camber bolts are iffy too, but I'd probably get them, considering the drop. It bugged me on the 1", 2" would be right out. Diatribe incoming, possibly 'you know this already' stuff too, but hey... I like this subject. 
The car will lower without any real issues, although the camber will be more negative all the way around at first. The rears are actually adjustable, as the mounts are slotted. Just loosen the upper innner bolt/nut, slide the link about, and tada, adjusted. So don't worry much about the rear camber. Although with that 2" target, there may or may not be enough slot, and that'll be where the adjustable link comes in to fix it. But it might not be a big deal even so...
Now the fronts... camber, positive or negative, supposedly won't really affect anything to speak of except a look and possibly a little more wear on the inner tire edge, unless it's extremely out. Or so it's been said. And I can't say my car's slightly extra negative out of spec settings did anything untoward. I still was a perfectionist and wound up putting in the camber bolts and getting exact spec on 'em later when I last played around with the suspension. Wasn't hard. More later on that. Anyway, the word on the street-ish is that the camber can be out of spec to a certain amount. If it gets to a +2.5 or such angle you really wanna fix it is the rule of thumb I'm seeing, and you'll probably really really notice that leaning tire/wheel. But then... Stance Nation happens, so... grains of salt, lots of 'em.
It'd bug me. Mine was -1.7 to -1.8 on both sides, and while it wasn't all that noticeable... Well, I'd already bought them when I bought all the suspension you see below, when I had the cradle out and put it back in, the camber bolts went in and I fixed it. Why didn't I put them in the "first time"? I got told by the people doing the alignment they couldn't put them in without drilling the struts/knuckles.
And I saw the specs and said "eh... ok, I'll leave 'em out, that's fine." When I slid them in with a little bit of finagling? I was a bit ticked off. 
But hey, not everyone plays with camber bolts, they always go for those plates, seems. Whatever. I say that to you to say that if the bolts are made to fix the problem they *will go in*, and no drilling needed. Just have to spin/angle the cam in just so and not an issue.
But that was on a 1" drop. 2" is a lot. 1.5" is too. At the end of this overly-long diatribe (and gonna get a little longer), my advice is they're cheap, they're lowering it more than the 1" 'don't worry about things much' stage, and I would get the camber bolts, end of topic. Because that lean would bug me really bad.
---
THAT said... 2" is a lot. My dude needs to be concerned about bounce/jounce issues, because Ford *really* likes to put those shocks in 'dampen to stock height' mode (which is why on my S197 there were *four* different part numbers for shocks/struts. 2 for verts, 2 for coupes, and each of those for V6 or V8. Crazy.), so he'll want to investigate much better shocks/struts if he's not yet doing that.
And then... the changes in that drop means that he might also want to investigate stouter suspension components in general. The firmer ride is going to make those rubber bushings unhappy. Upgrading the bushings, if not the links and arms, might be a thing that needs to happen. At the very least, reset 'ride height' tightening on the bushings so they aren't stressing out from the drop.
And finally, he might wanna address the bump steer that *might* happen. Some say it's not a thing, I don't know. I know my steering wasn't near as nice as it is now with the bump steer kit I put in. Perhaps it's the old, not available anymore (except NIB finds, and they's not cheap), but new in bag because had them like the camber bolts, didn't do it until a couple of months ago, Whiteline bump steers with the heim joints that made the difference, but the alignment of the steering gets changed a *lot*. It's much more correct, not shifting around as much, goes straight much easier... it didn't do that as well right after the 1" lower. I can't imagine how nasty steering Awesome would have been with a 2" drop. So that's a thing to consider.
Think that's about all I got on this overall subject. Not an S550 expert by any means, but alignment, drop, steering, stiffness, and bounce/jounce are transcendent to a point. Even from solid axle to IRS. I hope this helps your buddy out. Good luck and all!
/It's really a thought process, you ask me, on lowering. Just throwing springs at it can hurt the car.
//At least you don't have to worry about pinion angle. The actual one thing I'm really kinda jealous about the IRS S550 setups.
The car will lower without any real issues, although the camber will be more negative all the way around at first. The rears are actually adjustable, as the mounts are slotted. Just loosen the upper innner bolt/nut, slide the link about, and tada, adjusted. So don't worry much about the rear camber. Although with that 2" target, there may or may not be enough slot, and that'll be where the adjustable link comes in to fix it. But it might not be a big deal even so...
Now the fronts... camber, positive or negative, supposedly won't really affect anything to speak of except a look and possibly a little more wear on the inner tire edge, unless it's extremely out. Or so it's been said. And I can't say my car's slightly extra negative out of spec settings did anything untoward. I still was a perfectionist and wound up putting in the camber bolts and getting exact spec on 'em later when I last played around with the suspension. Wasn't hard. More later on that. Anyway, the word on the street-ish is that the camber can be out of spec to a certain amount. If it gets to a +2.5 or such angle you really wanna fix it is the rule of thumb I'm seeing, and you'll probably really really notice that leaning tire/wheel. But then... Stance Nation happens, so... grains of salt, lots of 'em.
It'd bug me. Mine was -1.7 to -1.8 on both sides, and while it wasn't all that noticeable... Well, I'd already bought them when I bought all the suspension you see below, when I had the cradle out and put it back in, the camber bolts went in and I fixed it. Why didn't I put them in the "first time"? I got told by the people doing the alignment they couldn't put them in without drilling the struts/knuckles.
And I saw the specs and said "eh... ok, I'll leave 'em out, that's fine." When I slid them in with a little bit of finagling? I was a bit ticked off. But hey, not everyone plays with camber bolts, they always go for those plates, seems. Whatever. I say that to you to say that if the bolts are made to fix the problem they *will go in*, and no drilling needed. Just have to spin/angle the cam in just so and not an issue. But that was on a 1" drop. 2" is a lot. 1.5" is too. At the end of this overly-long diatribe (and gonna get a little longer), my advice is they're cheap, they're lowering it more than the 1" 'don't worry about things much' stage, and I would get the camber bolts, end of topic. Because that lean would bug me really bad.
---
THAT said... 2" is a lot. My dude needs to be concerned about bounce/jounce issues, because Ford *really* likes to put those shocks in 'dampen to stock height' mode (which is why on my S197 there were *four* different part numbers for shocks/struts. 2 for verts, 2 for coupes, and each of those for V6 or V8. Crazy.), so he'll want to investigate much better shocks/struts if he's not yet doing that.
And then... the changes in that drop means that he might also want to investigate stouter suspension components in general. The firmer ride is going to make those rubber bushings unhappy. Upgrading the bushings, if not the links and arms, might be a thing that needs to happen. At the very least, reset 'ride height' tightening on the bushings so they aren't stressing out from the drop.
And finally, he might wanna address the bump steer that *might* happen. Some say it's not a thing, I don't know. I know my steering wasn't near as nice as it is now with the bump steer kit I put in. Perhaps it's the old, not available anymore (except NIB finds, and they's not cheap), but new in bag because had them like the camber bolts, didn't do it until a couple of months ago, Whiteline bump steers with the heim joints that made the difference, but the alignment of the steering gets changed a *lot*. It's much more correct, not shifting around as much, goes straight much easier... it didn't do that as well right after the 1" lower. I can't imagine how nasty steering Awesome would have been with a 2" drop. So that's a thing to consider.
Think that's about all I got on this overall subject. Not an S550 expert by any means, but alignment, drop, steering, stiffness, and bounce/jounce are transcendent to a point. Even from solid axle to IRS. I hope this helps your buddy out. Good luck and all!
/It's really a thought process, you ask me, on lowering. Just throwing springs at it can hurt the car.
//At least you don't have to worry about pinion angle. The actual one thing I'm really kinda jealous about the IRS S550 setups.
Thread Starter
GT Member
Joined: November 28, 2018
Posts: 117
Likes: 34
From: Connecticut
Thanks Houtex,
I think that he is just getting the springs on his installers recommendation. I know on the S197 cars a 2” drop most likely needs plates and 1” can definitely be done with bolts. I did bolts with my car and was in spec on one side and out very little on the other side. Alignment shop was amazed that I had it that close in the garage. I was hoping to get some feedback from an actual S550 owner. I am just trying to get him to understand that he won’t know that he needs these parts until he gets to the alignment shop. And if he needs camber plates he will basically have to pay for the front install labor twice. And the car will be out of service for most of next week. This is why I did not offer to do it for him.
I think that he is just getting the springs on his installers recommendation. I know on the S197 cars a 2” drop most likely needs plates and 1” can definitely be done with bolts. I did bolts with my car and was in spec on one side and out very little on the other side. Alignment shop was amazed that I had it that close in the garage. I was hoping to get some feedback from an actual S550 owner. I am just trying to get him to understand that he won’t know that he needs these parts until he gets to the alignment shop. And if he needs camber plates he will basically have to pay for the front install labor twice. And the car will be out of service for most of next week. This is why I did not offer to do it for him.
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