Whiteline Watts Link
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
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Nobody with an ounce of intelligence or experience will ever commit to an absolute. Particularly one that is so open ended. So please don't try to put those words in their mouth.
But, in the conditions we have used the Whiteline Watts link, track days, time trials, autocross and street driving, we have found it to be an asset to the suspension and add no noticeable extra NVH than what we already experience from the stiff poly front bushings, the Moton dampers and ultra high performance tires (street) or competition tires we run. It certainly has not added any clunks or banging to the car - something that we have experienced in other parts and have worked hard to keep the red Mustang clunk-free.
I think it's perfectly appropriate for a street car particularly because it does not use rod ends where they would be vulnerable to shock loads and road spray, the two things that shorten the life of spherical bearings.
You seem to have an issue with the Whiteline rep talking about their products. I'll suggest you instead ask end users about their experiences with the Whiteline Watts. That way you can hear from a variety of people how easy (or hard) it is to install and setup, how well it works and how it holds up over time. In my experience it's easy to install and setup, it works as expected and as advertised and it's holding up very well. Our competition car goes on the rack before and after every event and we have no issues with the Watts.
But, in the conditions we have used the Whiteline Watts link, track days, time trials, autocross and street driving, we have found it to be an asset to the suspension and add no noticeable extra NVH than what we already experience from the stiff poly front bushings, the Moton dampers and ultra high performance tires (street) or competition tires we run. It certainly has not added any clunks or banging to the car - something that we have experienced in other parts and have worked hard to keep the red Mustang clunk-free.
I think it's perfectly appropriate for a street car particularly because it does not use rod ends where they would be vulnerable to shock loads and road spray, the two things that shorten the life of spherical bearings.
You seem to have an issue with the Whiteline rep talking about their products. I'll suggest you instead ask end users about their experiences with the Whiteline Watts. That way you can hear from a variety of people how easy (or hard) it is to install and setup, how well it works and how it holds up over time. In my experience it's easy to install and setup, it works as expected and as advertised and it's holding up very well. Our competition car goes on the rack before and after every event and we have no issues with the Watts.
Ok so I googled this and found that review vorshag or w/e its called did on this watts link. Now I'm actually considering this product lol since a lot of people are saying they haven't heard any noises or clunking from it. So now I am wondering on my 13 gt500 my differential cover has fins. I'm assuming that is for cooling? Is this new differential cover as efficient in cooling as my stock one if that is what the fins do.
Last edited by 13shelby; Oct 10, 2012 at 11:03 PM.
Member
Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 43
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From: Vorshlag - Dallas, TX
13Shelby, full disclosure, I work for Vorshlag. I've tried to edit my sig and sub-member name like I have on other forums, but the sig doesn't stick, or I can't see it or something.
And yes, our red car is a little rowdy. But I drove both our black GT that is stock with high performance tires on 18x10 wheels, and our red GT that has all the suspension parts, bushings, long tube headers, full exhaust and race seats yesterday. And both are nice streetable cars. But the two things that make the red car harsher are the competition valved Moton dampers (the ASTs are much nicer for the street) and the rumbling exhaust. The Motons might be even easier to live with if we swapped on some non-competition tires for street driving, or had the stock seats in the car. But the exhaust trumps everything as far as being the most obnoxious part. Although a lot of guys WANT that sort of exhaust note.
Give it a few weeks. Lots of owners have bought the Whiteline Watts from us or other dealers and will soon have them on their cars giving their opinions. I'm a suspension guy. I set up race cars and know the ins and outs of what is required. Install and setup is easy for me, but I have a critical eye and ear for the feedback I get from the car and driver. Let some less experienced owners try it out and see what they think.
Also, if you are ever in the Dallas, Texas area you are welcome to come by the shop for a test ride. We'll be glad to run down a couple horrible roads that show the qualities of good suspension, even on a stiffly sprung and heavily damped competition car. If you ask around there might even be someone with a Whiteline Watts installed near you to check out in person.
On Edit: I put Vorshlag in as my location.
And yes, our red car is a little rowdy. But I drove both our black GT that is stock with high performance tires on 18x10 wheels, and our red GT that has all the suspension parts, bushings, long tube headers, full exhaust and race seats yesterday. And both are nice streetable cars. But the two things that make the red car harsher are the competition valved Moton dampers (the ASTs are much nicer for the street) and the rumbling exhaust. The Motons might be even easier to live with if we swapped on some non-competition tires for street driving, or had the stock seats in the car. But the exhaust trumps everything as far as being the most obnoxious part. Although a lot of guys WANT that sort of exhaust note.
Give it a few weeks. Lots of owners have bought the Whiteline Watts from us or other dealers and will soon have them on their cars giving their opinions. I'm a suspension guy. I set up race cars and know the ins and outs of what is required. Install and setup is easy for me, but I have a critical eye and ear for the feedback I get from the car and driver. Let some less experienced owners try it out and see what they think.
Also, if you are ever in the Dallas, Texas area you are welcome to come by the shop for a test ride. We'll be glad to run down a couple horrible roads that show the qualities of good suspension, even on a stiffly sprung and heavily damped competition car. If you ask around there might even be someone with a Whiteline Watts installed near you to check out in person.
On Edit: I put Vorshlag in as my location.
Last edited by modernbeat; Oct 11, 2012 at 09:44 AM.
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
13Shelby, full disclosure, I work for Vorshlag. I've tried to edit my sig and sub-member name like I have on other forums, but the sig doesn't stick, or I can't see it or something.
And yes, our red car is a little rowdy. But I drove both our black GT that is stock with high performance tires on 18x10 wheels, and our red GT that has all the suspension parts, bushings, long tube headers, full exhaust and race seats yesterday. And both are nice streetable cars. But the two things that make the red car harsher are the competition valved Moton dampers (the ASTs are much nicer for the street) and the rumbling exhaust. The Motons might be even easier to live with if we swapped on some non-competition tires for street driving, or had the stock seats in the car. But the exhaust trumps everything as far as being the most obnoxious part. Although a lot of guys WANT that sort of exhaust note.
Give it a few weeks. Lots of owners have bought the Whiteline Watts from us or other dealers and will soon have them on their cars giving their opinions. I'm a suspension guy. I set up race cars and know the ins and outs of what is required. Install and setup is easy for me, but I have a critical eye and ear for the feedback I get from the car and driver. Let some less experienced owners try it out and see what they think.
Also, if you are ever in the Dallas, Texas area you are welcome to come by the shop for a test ride. We'll be glad to run down a couple horrible roads that show the qualities of good suspension, even on a stiffly sprung and heavily damped competition car. If you ask around there might even be someone with a Whiteline Watts installed near you to check out in person.
On Edit: I put Vorshlag in as my location.
And yes, our red car is a little rowdy. But I drove both our black GT that is stock with high performance tires on 18x10 wheels, and our red GT that has all the suspension parts, bushings, long tube headers, full exhaust and race seats yesterday. And both are nice streetable cars. But the two things that make the red car harsher are the competition valved Moton dampers (the ASTs are much nicer for the street) and the rumbling exhaust. The Motons might be even easier to live with if we swapped on some non-competition tires for street driving, or had the stock seats in the car. But the exhaust trumps everything as far as being the most obnoxious part. Although a lot of guys WANT that sort of exhaust note.
Give it a few weeks. Lots of owners have bought the Whiteline Watts from us or other dealers and will soon have them on their cars giving their opinions. I'm a suspension guy. I set up race cars and know the ins and outs of what is required. Install and setup is easy for me, but I have a critical eye and ear for the feedback I get from the car and driver. Let some less experienced owners try it out and see what they think.
Also, if you are ever in the Dallas, Texas area you are welcome to come by the shop for a test ride. We'll be glad to run down a couple horrible roads that show the qualities of good suspension, even on a stiffly sprung and heavily damped competition car. If you ask around there might even be someone with a Whiteline Watts installed near you to check out in person.
On Edit: I put Vorshlag in as my location.
Apparently this is impossible to use for those with a track pack that has the differential cooler but I only have the performance pack so this is ok.
Cobra Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 1,075
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No its very simple. If I have no clicks, clunks, rattles or w/e before the install and then I have them after that would be an NVH increase.
Jim fays honors his product for 3 months money back gurantee. I'd like to see other companies have the ***** to do what he does instead of just posting bs trying to sell their products with misinformation.
Like steeda their watts says absolutely no NVH increase. My friend with a steeda wats every time we go over a bump or stop the car in heavy traffic we hear clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk
Jim fays honors his product for 3 months money back gurantee. I'd like to see other companies have the ***** to do what he does instead of just posting bs trying to sell their products with misinformation.
Like steeda their watts says absolutely no NVH increase. My friend with a steeda wats every time we go over a bump or stop the car in heavy traffic we hear clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk
Member
Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Vorshlag - Dallas, TX
The fins help, as more surface area assists heat dissipation, but the more effective upgrade from the stock steel cover is any aluminum cover with some mass. We had heat issues with the steel cover and had to build an elaborate axle breather to keep the oil mist from fouling the rear tires and making a mess out of the rear bodywork and the track surface. The breather contained the oil mist, but since the aluminum cover has been installed we haven't had the heat issues. The finned cover is most likely more efficient, but we have not had any cooling issues with the Whiteline cover.
The "holes" are tapped and plugged and by themselves don't assist with cooling. But if you run a pump and cooler for the diff the holes make it easy to install without having to machine the diff cover.
The "holes" are tapped and plugged and by themselves don't assist with cooling. But if you run a pump and cooler for the diff the holes make it easy to install without having to machine the diff cover.
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
The fins help, as more surface area assists heat dissipation, but the more effective upgrade from the stock steel cover is any aluminum cover with some mass. We had heat issues with the steel cover and had to build an elaborate axle breather to keep the oil mist from fouling the rear tires and making a mess out of the rear bodywork and the track surface. The breather contained the oil mist, but since the aluminum cover has been installed we haven't had the heat issues. The finned cover is most likely more efficient, but we have not had any cooling issues with the Whiteline cover.
The "holes" are tapped and plugged and by themselves don't assist with cooling. But if you run a pump and cooler for the diff the holes make it easy to install without having to machine the diff cover.
The "holes" are tapped and plugged and by themselves don't assist with cooling. But if you run a pump and cooler for the diff the holes make it easy to install without having to machine the diff cover.
Member
Joined: September 28, 2011
Posts: 43
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From: Vorshlag - Dallas, TX
Actually, the opposite. Aluminum absorbs and expels heat a lot quicker than the steel. An aluminum cover in general will absorb heat from the hotter oil and iron housing quicker than steel, and it will pass it to the colder air quicker than steel. The material properties of the aluminum are the main contributor to this effect. Adding fins is just icing on the cake - as in more surface area helps with the convection, but not as much as the material does.
Massive amounts of aluminum (or steel) will also add some capacitance to the cooling. It will act as a heat sink and will take longer to become as hot as the oil than a thinner aluminum cover. But it will also take longer to cool completely. The throughput will be the same.
Massive amounts of aluminum (or steel) will also add some capacitance to the cooling. It will act as a heat sink and will take longer to become as hot as the oil than a thinner aluminum cover. But it will also take longer to cool completely. The throughput will be the same.
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
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Actually, the opposite. Aluminum absorbs and expels heat a lot quicker than the steel. An aluminum cover in general will absorb heat from the hotter oil and iron housing quicker than steel, and it will pass it to the colder air quicker than steel. The material properties of the aluminum are the main contributor to this effect. Adding fins is just icing on the cake - as in more surface area helps with the convection, but not as much as the material does.
Massive amounts of aluminum (or steel) will also add some capacitance to the cooling. It will act as a heat sink and will take longer to become as hot as the oil than a thinner aluminum cover. But it will also take longer to cool completely. The throughput will be the same.
Massive amounts of aluminum (or steel) will also add some capacitance to the cooling. It will act as a heat sink and will take longer to become as hot as the oil than a thinner aluminum cover. But it will also take longer to cool completely. The throughput will be the same.
So then bottom line there is no difference in differential cooling between these covers?
Mach 1 Member
Joined: July 16, 2010
Posts: 864
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Because aluminum conducts heat much faster and more efficiently it will help maintain a lower over all temperature. I can weld the end of a steel bar say 12" long and pick it up with my bare hand I can't do that with aluminum. The heat is so quickly conducted down the bar that it take more energy to get the aluminum hot enough to weld even though the actual weld temperature for aluminum is less than steel and the same size 12" bar of aluminum would be impossible to pick up.
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
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Because aluminum conducts heat much faster and more efficiently it will help maintain a lower over all temperature. I can weld the end of a steel bar say 12" long and pick it up with my bare hand I can't do that with aluminum. The heat is so quickly conducted down the bar that it take more energy to get the aluminum hot enough to weld even though the actual weld temperature for aluminum is less than steel and the same size 12" bar of aluminum would be impossible to pick up.
I see.
Though I just found something interesting actually the differential cover on a 13 gt500 is cast alumnium not steel. So then maybe this piece without the fins is not better actually? http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...-Tribute-Rear-
1024x640.jpg&w=1024&h=640&ei=zxV3UNjtO4qN0QHbjoHAB w&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=727&vpy=164&dur=235&hovh=177& hovw=284&tx=152&ty=91&sig=117971601891716991024&pa ge=2&tbnh=167&tbnw=238&start=18&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429 ,r:7,s:18,i:165
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
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Hey just trying to make sure I get it right before I order this piece. Ford put fins on their alumnium cover for a reason so I don't want to downgrade anything only upgrade.
Bullitt Member
Joined: April 3, 2011
Posts: 457
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It's cool, bro, just yankin yer crankshaft hehehe. Listen to the wise folks here, they know their stuff (mostly depending on who's talkin).
This unit looks outstanding, and if I planned to autocross my GT I would be all over it, such a great design.
This unit looks outstanding, and if I planned to autocross my GT I would be all over it, such a great design.
V6 Member
Joined: July 22, 2012
Posts: 62
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From: Silicon Valley
I ordered it and will be installing it when I get a chance.
Have had great experiences with Whiteline products in the past from the import market and will be doing all Whiteline for my suspension upgrades on the Mustang.
I was leaning towards the Cortex Watts Link before seeing the Whiteline was released and think the design and bushing material is the perfect combination for an agressive street ride that is HPDE and Auto-X made with it still being very livable on a daily basis.
Have had great experiences with Whiteline products in the past from the import market and will be doing all Whiteline for my suspension upgrades on the Mustang.
I was leaning towards the Cortex Watts Link before seeing the Whiteline was released and think the design and bushing material is the perfect combination for an agressive street ride that is HPDE and Auto-X made with it still being very livable on a daily basis.
V6 Member
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
I ordered it and will be installing it when I get a chance.
Have had great experiences with Whiteline products in the past from the import market and will be doing all Whiteline for my suspension upgrades on the Mustang.
I was leaning towards the Cortex Watts Link before seeing the Whiteline was released and think the design and bushing material is the perfect combination for an agressive street ride that is HPDE and Auto-X made with it still being very livable on a daily basis.
Have had great experiences with Whiteline products in the past from the import market and will be doing all Whiteline for my suspension upgrades on the Mustang.
I was leaning towards the Cortex Watts Link before seeing the Whiteline was released and think the design and bushing material is the perfect combination for an agressive street ride that is HPDE and Auto-X made with it still being very livable on a daily basis.
V6 Member
Joined: July 22, 2012
Posts: 62
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From: Silicon Valley
Will do. I think they only keep a minimal number of them in stock as it went out of stock as soon as I ordered mine from them. I would expect they will have one in shortly.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: June 22, 2005
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 4
From: Boston, MA
I have to say the Whiteline unit in hand is pretty darn impressive. It's obviously a quality piece throughout. Strength should not be an issue, these Aussie boys seem to have a serious steel fetish, and the only aluminum part, (the diff cover itself) is very thick and obviously uber-strong.
Lots of nice quality touches like copper sealing washers on the diff cover plugs.
All the major assemblies came bubble wrapped and double boxed (great in my case as UPS basically tore loose half the staples on the outer box, but everything arrived ok anyway. Note for Whiteline, more/stronger staples on the outer box would be a good idea. Wrapping it in a couple places with some of that ultra strong 1/2" plastic shipping banding would be even better).
I've been running a Fays2 for several years, so I'll be very interested in the comparison.
Also, before anyone says it, yes, I know I have a 'vert, and Whiteline doesn't spec the kit for 'verts. I'm willing to make whatever mods are needed to the 'vert braces, etc to try this out.
