5 DOT 0

With the understanding that the lopey idle causes overrun which generates unburnt fuel and with this comment directly from Ford:

"Originally Posted by FordCustomerService

Hey awesome members!

The following info should answer some of your questions. I did some digging and this is what I found from FRPP and the TracKey:

...

2) One of the videos in circulation shows a prototype level of TracKey software that was not emissions legal. No claim was made as to that being the final product. The level of cam overlap was slightly reduced to pass emissions. We worked very hard to meet emissions regulations and provide the industry-first lopey idle feature, and we feel we've reached the optimal solution that satisfies both criteria.

Please continue to enjoy your Bosses!!! Have a good one!

Deysha"

Does anyone think the tune in the video below would pass ANY states smog certification let alone CARB? I bet it was never even submitted to CARB for certification. BTW Ford knew all along they would have to receive a CARB certification on TK just like they do on all of their tunes and engine mods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5p8WQj9apw

06GT

+1 here, always like to see the details

2012YellowBoss

I would like to say, for the most part, I stayed out of many Trackey threads here and elsewhere over the months. I also defended Ford after speaking with people from Ford that explained the process they had to go through with CARB. In last week or so I have been driven more by emotion over what we ended up with. I do not have the proper equipment to test the car, just seat of the pants and one track day. While not happy with the initial feel, throwing codes at track and another car running limp mode again equaled a total failure to me even if I do not know if CARB caused that or it was on Ford's part.

When a bankrupted state can spend almost one billion dollars to fund an agency so they can get so powerful to effect my life in FL while cutting service and laying off teachers I let emotions get involved. I apologize for that.

As far as politics go I will say I am in no way a right wing type of person. I spent most of my life in public service. I do not hold any ill feeling to public sector workers, many do amazing jobs that make our life better and we rarely see or hear about it. People at the CDC are outstanding protecting us and the world follows their work right down to the countries that hate us the most. FBI, firefighters and other people place their lives on the line everyday to protect us. Planes, trains and roads are safer here then most places due to the work of public sector employees, nuff said.

However when a agency like CARB is run purely for political gain and burdens the taxpayers rather then serve, I get upset. I did post links to several fight back groups in post one but since this is a Mustang site I did not go into detail. I have spent a lot of time reading about CARB and I am still in the process of learning. From what I have read CARB does not take into account any science in what they do. They start with a political agenda and change the data to match or fit that. When proven wrong they refuse to back down. Even when the data is written by someone who lied about their degree in the field and in fact obtained the degree for a UPS store front.

Over the years I have written many letter to elected officials. I have visited the offices of many congressman and senators in their home district and in DC. I know the capitol office buildings well and have attended fund raisers and so on. Anyway just saying I have been and continue to be involved when I feel the need. I have been looking at sites like I posted and I will certainly help when I can but not living in CA limits me. If this was a FL decision to force me to adopt the CA standard for my Boss I would get very involved here, that is not the case. To me it makes no sense contacting FL legislators since we do not have a state emission system in place. Why start a fire where there is not one?

I need time to read this just scanned it but thanks for the find. I have done a few quick scans of the CARB site but have not learned my way around there yet. It seems to me at first glance that what was approved is not what was first submitted. It is just the final outcome of what Ford was forced to submit after the "targets were constantly changed". Where is the first draft of what was submitted? That would be worth reading, why not post that if there is nothing to hide? At some point something had to get approved. The fact that what was approved was " dirtier (however minuscule)" means nothing. What did we expect it to be, a Mustang will have more emissions then a Focus so one would automatically think Trackey would do the same.

CARB's job was too evaluate the impact on the 300 or so Bosses that would be shipped to CA. As someone without insider info, looks like spending nine months and who knows how much of taxpayers money on this was a bit excessive and had little to do with science. It also appears to me that Ford released this hoping to slide it by as if nothing was changed. I do not understand why they can not tell us the truth, maybe they are scared of CARB? Now that we are questioning it they release a statement that the car in the video was a prototype and not meant to show us the final outcome. Funny no one said that for nine months while selling the Boss and Trackey, they seem pretty good at lawyer speak over the warranty but not on the youtube vids. Sorry but it is my opinion they think we are idiots to believe this and I don't like being treated this way.

I could go on and on but will will stop with the answer to your question.

"Furthermore, how do you know that Ford didn't have trouble meeting current emissions standards with the red key?"

I don't know for sure, If my kitchen smells like dead fish, I can't prove it until I dig through the garbage but I still had a pretty good idea what might be causing it.

--------------------------------------

Jim, thanks for getting involved. My tests were admittedly very rudimentary but I think still a help to the majority of people that wanted to feel a difference in the car with their butt and hands - not read a graph measured in 1/1000 of a second done by some magazine on a test track they will never see. I am sure the mags will come out with tests but for now hope more people like you get involved.

LadyBoss302

Well my thoughts are this, I understand that since they were marketing TK as an aftermarket part, I understand why CARB is involved, but I wonder if the 'original' TK program even affected the emissions in a significant way to bring the results higher than some of the cars already on the streets.

And is there any evidence available to say that the Engineers on the TK were asked to change TK before CARB review?

LadyBoss302

Oh i see there is some evidence by Deysha.

P0 Corsa

Very nicely stated #83

Tob*

Slow down for a minute, Scott. If I can go through your post for a minute...

FordService

This info is correct, DFV. Warranty info on the TracKey can be found here:http://www.trackey.ford.com/announce...12_TracKey.pdf

Ok, so I hope I get to answer some of your questions with the following info.

1) Lopey idle is significantly more pronounced with the side exhaust plates completely removed. It is also more pronounced with the A/C off. Combustion stability increases with increasing engine load, so anything that increases engine load (such as A/C) will decrease the "lopeyness" of the idle, which is created by increasing cam overlap at idle to simulate the "racing cam" sound and feel of 60's muscle cars. This is purely the physics of the way internal combustion engines work.

2) One of the videos in circulation shows a prototype level of TracKey software that was not emissions legal. No claim was made as to that being the final product. The level of cam overlap was slightly reduced to pass emissions. We worked very hard to meet emissions regulations and provide the industry-first lopey idle feature, and we feel we've reached the optimal solution that satisfies both criteria.

Also, there is no replacement air filter cartridge. FRPP frequently pursues Executive Orders for kits that include parts that they do not provide, to allow them flexibility in the future. Customers should be getting their info about FRPP parts from their website www.FordRacingParts.com, and not the CARB website which is not intended for viewing by retail customers.
Should you guys wish to purchase an air filter from FRPP, the part number is M-9601-MGT, but it is not part of the TracKey package.

Deysha

2012YellowBoss

I do not know for 100% absolute fact. Just going but what I know and have been involved in. We can go back and forth on this forever and that will accomplish nothing in the long run but to get people tired of reading the forum. It is a legit question and I am not faulting you but I have stated that what I see and write about are my opinions. No offense intended, OK

I wrote these things before and they are the facts as I know or see them. I have had the Boss longer then most and have more track days then most, that does not make me an expert but it is not like I have had it a week and tracked once.. Check out some of my other posts, I have tried to explain myself the best way I know how.

My car with Trackey is way different then the cars on display (or Ford employees cars) at the show in Dearborn in August.

It is way different then the car I drove at Miller WITH THE 5/16 DISCS IN PLACE.

It is way different then the vids of Trackey presented by Ford but until people bought the program were never told it would be a world of difference.

Telling us warranty will not be affect then changing that.

Car still throws random codes and goes into limp mode on the track.

So the fact remains that what I have seen, led to believe and had first hand experience is way different then what I recieved, that to me equals a lie and bad business practices. It does not help on the Track with the number one reason I wanted it, stop the codes and limp mode. If that was going to be the case maybe someone should have told us that before installing it and giving up part of my warranty. NOT AFTER!

I stand by my opinion that this is not worth the money and certainly not worth the money and loss of warranty, other may disagree me and that is OK. If you buy something as complicated as this program is you may want to be wowed by it, not have to hook it up to a machine to see any real differences.

I am more then happy to answer any questions but don't want to continue beating a dead horse. I am not a Ford engineer by any means or even equal to a top Ford tech, I have admitted that. So even if I have turned a few wrenches in my time I can not get into every tiny minute details. As I said that was not what Trackey was suppose to be about, it was suppose to change the car where you could say wow! People can decide themselves if a .00675 rating is better then the .00712 rating they now have with the black key and without spending 500 bucks and losing two years warranty. If so they will be very happy with this current program. I am not but life goes on, I have made bigger mistakes then this in the past.

P0 Corsa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tob*

It seems to me at first glance that what was approved is not what was first submitted.

Tob, let me first thank you for your informed and technically savy (IMO) comments on the CARB TK certification Ford undertook. And I applaud your efforts to dig into the topic and go where others have not gone or Ford Racing expected the “public” to see their efforts that perhaps they do not want identified. Reference the Ford Racing comment, “Customers should be getting their info about FRPP parts from their website www.FordRacingParts.com, and not the CARB website which is not intended for viewing by retail customers.” This statement implies there may be aspects of this certification effort FR does not want publicized and is attempting to discourage efforts such as yours to unearth all the facts.

As many TK purchasers have immediately observed, the lopey idle (which again was the embryonic basis for sparking the imagination of TK by the Ford Motor Company, Boss 302 managers) is significantly watered down from expected levels promoted by FR during the marketing and PR campaigns. Marketing hype, car magazine demo vehicles, Ford executive demo cars, car show demonstrations (which I attended and the TK always drew a large audience) and the Miller cars at TA all contributed to owner and public expectation levels. The question has to be asked, “Why would you promote a feature to the public (especially car enthusiasts who could not wait to buy this new Ford product) if you did not realistically think you could bring it to market?” Ford HAD to think the demonstration TK software (OK Ford calls this “prototype level”) was certifiable. There is just no other reasonable explanation.

I do not think owners ever wanted higher levels of this loupey idle. What angers those disappointed and dissatisfied with the final TK product is not delivering what was hyped in all of the above venues and then the most irritating issue is their lack of communication or even trying to explain themselves. To me this is like Ford touring through the auto show circuits a Kona Blue Boss and then telling prospective buyers, “That was just a “prototype” vehicle. We never really had any intention of selling that to the general public. Where did you get that impression?” Does this answer from FR sound similar? “One of the videos in circulation shows a prototype level of TracKey software that was not emissions legal. No claim was made as to that being the final product.” It strikes me as well as others as bait-and-switch, oh and after many have already purchased the TK software.

While I as well as many (if not all) TMS participants VERY much appreciate the exemplary efforts of Deysha at Customer Service to get answers and help owners understand complex Ford issues, for Ford Racing management to hide behind a customer service figurehead and dribble out comments on TK warranty and basic certification efforts, is inexcusable. Some members have rushed to FR defense saying that maybe they “can’t”. I ask why? What is prohibiting them from speaking? Is it some legal issue? Has a suit been filed which precludes any discussion? Why does FR continue to stonewall on this issue now after the product is out (as they have during the past 10-12 months of certification effort)? And Deysha, again my thanks to you for all that you do for TMS participants!

Tob, as you have correctly stated in your post, “Ford wouldn't have submitted an application until their own testing (done at Roush's facility) met target numbers that Ford was comfortable with. Since the ARB verifies Ford's testing by conducting their own (and they essentially mirrored Ford's results) tests, again, I don't see anything wrong.” I agree. But the foggy area is what was the initial valve overlap software submitted, for we all know what the final product is, “The level of cam overlap was slightly reduced to pass emissions.” You build a 10-12 month marketing plan at one level which you know is “not emissions legal” and then test the product, determine by in-house testing it does not meet the requirement numbers and go to certify a watered down version? It is just hard to believe that was the chain of events.

A more likely scenario is the Ford “prototype” software as shown in the TK marketing venues was determined by in-house testing to have a reasonable chance of gaining ARB certification but the research board had concerns of TK being used by owners at other than track events and forced FR to reduce the valve overlap and water down the lopey idle due to some emissions challenge.

Thanks again for your continued digging and insight into this saga.

Whammer

Just throwing this out for discussion....who buys a performance tune without knowing exactly is affected by that tune?
Most tuners will offer up dyno charts showing HP gains, etc.
Ford has stated that TK does not change HP or TQ, but they never have clearly shown or demonstrated what is does change.

Reviews seem pretty mixed from those having had TK installed. It ranges from not really noticing any difference to I think I'm noticing a difference.
I would think that for $500 you should most CERTAINLY feel a BIG difference in how the car performs.

I don't think anyone could even call this a MILD tune.
In the end I'll probably end up getting it because it's "part" of the whole Boss experience but truthfully Ford failed big time at this.

1FAFP90

I can feel a difference - no THNK about it. I heard a difference when the idle changed, and I could feel a difference the first time I stepped on the gas, and lifted. If your exhaust doesn't snap, crackle and pop when you lift off, something's wrong - mine sounds great.

5 DOT 0

Me. As you stated Ford never claimed an increase in HP or peak TQ so why would you need dyno charts? I noticed a difference with the idle, sound of the car, throttle response, and engine braking. Don't forget launch control and pit lane speed control. Oh and my dash tells me that TK is for track use only and when the lopey idle is engaged. Is TK the most outrageous tune ever made? No. Is the concept one of the coolest ideas for implementing changing tunes on a car? Yes.

Rather B.Blown

Snap, crackle and pop? Is this a tune or a box of Rice Krispies?

phiggs54

Ford had Kellogs engineers consult on the TracKey tune

twawsico

They're all Michigan guys.

I have the exhaust discs out and definitely notice when "lopey idle" kicks in. It's nit as pronounced as on that early YouTube video, but definitely noticeable. I like it.

And I definitely can tell the difference with throttle response and engine braking. I haven't tried launch control or pit lane speed control yet. All in all, I like TK. Granted, I didn't have huge expectations because they said all along that there would be no HP gains. But I'm still baffled by the fervor with which some here are ranting, especially those who don't even have it. Oh well.

Whammer

My exhaust does that now and I don't have TK.
It would be nice if Ford actually told us what 600 parameters were changed by TK and offered up some videos showing how it improves the performance of the car. It seems like a reasonable request to me. I am paying for TK and they aren't giving it to me.

twawsico

Mine does, too, with the black key. It's just more pronounced when using the red one.

phiggs54

I have my discs removed and get pretting good popping when I let off the throttle. If TracKey increases that I would use it all of the time. I dont drive it enough to worry about gas mileage

Tob*

Corsa, the first quote in your post (#90) was Scott's, not mine.

To be truthful, I winced (just a wee bit!) when I saw Deysha post that. I agree that the best source (for the general public) regarding FRPP parts is either the FRPP catalog of the FRPP hotline. Both are excellent resources. Problem is, the tech's on the phone are not always up to speed on current offerings and the catalog doesn't go into great detail within most individual parts offerings (we want more detail FRPP!).

As far as the CARB website "not (being) intended for viewing by retail customers" I think Deysha (or her contact at FRPP) could have clarified a little more carefully. The list of Executive Orders is made available to the public so that they can research an aftermarket part(s) or manufacturer to see if there is an exemption. The approved on-road applications are public documents that even Ford (via their Fleet Showroom - scroll down for the listing of your choice and click on either the Federal or California Certificate) provides online.

This is why I asked (a few times) for someone to provide a clear shot of the EO sticker for the TracKey. I knew I could start there (or at the CARB website). I had seen Badillo's name before with regards to other FRPP EO Certificates but didn't think he was involved with this one. I still don't understand why Ford/FRPP consulted him when they have guys like Dev Saberwal (Ford Racing's lead calibration engineer) already in their employ. What makes it really weird are two different addresses used by Badillo Engineering (372 Winchester St, South Lyon, Michigan and 6275 Stewart LN, Ann Arbor, Michigan) within differing Executive Orders. Google maps shows those as residential addresses, so I guess he moved. Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, Ed shows his business address as also being his home address. He must be one heck of a calibrator, as much as I'm sure he works with Ford/FRPP/Roush as well in getting the necessary EO approval from CARB.

Unless Farr had it wrong, in his book he states...

They pursued it further and development grew. So actually, it appears as though the roots of the TracKey can be credited to none other than two NVH Engineers. Gotta love that. Shows how innovative the same guys that made the side pipes a reality were.

As to promoting the "lope" knowing it might not make the final cut - I have no issue with that. It was in development. It couldn't be certified in a condition as radical as some may have hoped for. Remember, it just got certified 10/5/11. Those initial video clips on YouTube were from long ago, very early in development. Look at it this way - If Ford had never revealed to the public (either by video or by allowing the public to see/hear pre-production cars) pre-certified Boss 302 TracKey equipped cars, nobody would have anything to compare the officially certified tune to. Think that would allow for more positive perception now? No wonder Ford doesn't want you to see what they are working on until its done.

I must say, I find the concept of a TracKey fascinating. The dual path PCM will hopefully be used elsewhere. In the meantime, I suspect that more information will make its way into the public domain in the near future.

Corsa, thank you for the kind words.

Tob