Trinity Engine Is Not Dead Yet!
12/11/13, 05:24 AM
#41
Keep in my that no matter what SVT does it will have an one of a kind engine that is not used in any other ford product. A flat plane crank engine is totally different even if it used a coyote block. It would need other changes to rotate at much higher rpms. A twin turbo coyote would also be very different also and would require a lot of unique components for the application. Ford has never built a flat-plane engine or made a twin turbo V-8 engine before and they will need time to perfect the engines that they decide to go with. Ford will not just simply slap a supercharger on a coyote engine and say here you go SVT buyers. SVT has always offered a level of exclusivity to their buyers. Older SVT cars who shared the same block had 4v per cylinder heads vice 2v per cylinder or forged internals with a supercharger vice cast internals and no supercharger or bigger displacement, forged internals and a supercharger, vice smaller displacement, cast internals and no supercharger. The new coyote will be a boss 302 like engine, have forged internals and 4v per cyl with advanced cam phasing. If SVT takes it and then slaps a supercharger on it there would be no exclusivity and everyone would turn their nose up at buying one and just buy a GT and have a supercharger put on it. The GT can be bought now with 6 piston brembo brakes, track pack, has a diffuser a chin spoiler etc. The SVT will need something to make it special in comparison to the GT or it will not sell. I have not said the "Trinity" will not go away I am just saying that it will remain a couple more years. There are major magazines like Road and Track and Car and Driver who share the same opinion If I eat crow I will not be eating it alone. Sure if there was a twin turbo coyote available now in the SVT I would buy it and STFU so if it happens I will eat crow and STFU. You heard it from me guys. We will see who eats crow in a few months.
Last edited by mustang_lurkers; 12/11/13 at 07:38 AM. Reason: missing word.
12/11/13, 06:26 AM
#43
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Keep in my that no matter what SVT does it will have an one of a kind engine that is not used in any other ford product. A flat plane crank engine is totally different even if it used a coyote block. It would need other changes to rotate at much higher rpms. A twin turbo coyote would also be very different also and would require a lot of unique components for the application. Ford has never built a flat-plane engine or made a twin turbo engine before and they will need time to perfect the engines that they decide to go with. Ford will not just simply slap a supercharger on a coyote engine and say here you go SVT buyers. SVT has always offered a level of exclusivity to their buyers. Older SVT cars who shared the same block had 4v per cylinder heads vice 2v per cylinder or forged internals with a supercharger vice cast internals and no supercharger or bigger displacement, forged internals and a supercharger, vice smaller displacement, cast internals and no supercharger. The new coyote will be a boss 302 like engine, have forged internals and 4v per cyl with advanced cam phasing. If SVT takes it and then slaps a supercharger on it there would be no exclusivity and everyone would turn their nose up at buying one and just buy a GT and have a supercharger put on it. The GT can be bought now with 6 piston brembo brakes, track pack, has a diffuser a chin spoiler etc. The SVT will need something to make it special in comparison to the GT or it will not sell. I have not said the "Trinity" will not go away I am just saying that it will remain a couple more years. There are major magazines like Road and Track and Car and Driver who share the same opinion If I eat crow I will not be eating it alone. Sure if there was a twin turbo coyote available now in the SVT I would buy it and STFU so if it happens I will eat crow and STFU. You heard it from me guys. We will see who eats crow in a few months.
Last edited by conv_stang; 12/11/13 at 06:37 AM.
12/11/13, 07:37 AM
#44
Gentlemen,
we will see what comes as time passes. At least wait to post things that add to the speculation such as inputs from car magazines, or posts from Ford Engineers and Execs. So far the "Voodoo" engine is a myth like bigfoot or the greay Aliens at area 51. There is nothing to convince me about the death of the "Trinity" engine but sheer speculation that is less than what the car magazine weathermen are predicting.
we will see what comes as time passes. At least wait to post things that add to the speculation such as inputs from car magazines, or posts from Ford Engineers and Execs. So far the "Voodoo" engine is a myth like bigfoot or the greay Aliens at area 51. There is nothing to convince me about the death of the "Trinity" engine but sheer speculation that is less than what the car magazine weathermen are predicting.
12/11/13, 07:39 AM
#45
12/11/13, 07:43 AM
#46
Last edited by Evil_Capri; 12/11/13 at 07:44 AM.
12/11/13, 08:00 AM
#47
"I've owned a 93, still own my 98 and owned an 04. They all shared engine components with lower models and wee all great cars."
The 1998 Cobra engine was totally different from the GT engine. The cobra engine was all aluminum, had a forged crank, much better 4v heads, better intake and exhuast. They didn't share as many common components as you think.
The 1998 Cobra engine was totally different from the GT engine. The cobra engine was all aluminum, had a forged crank, much better 4v heads, better intake and exhuast. They didn't share as many common components as you think.
12/11/13, 08:48 AM
#48
Gentlemen,
we will see what comes as time passes. At least wait to post things that add to the speculation such as inputs from car magazines, or posts from Ford Engineers and Execs. So far the "Voodoo" engine is a myth like bigfoot or the greay Aliens at area 51. There is nothing to convince me about the death of the "Trinity" engine but sheer speculation that is less than what the car magazine weathermen are predicting.
we will see what comes as time passes. At least wait to post things that add to the speculation such as inputs from car magazines, or posts from Ford Engineers and Execs. So far the "Voodoo" engine is a myth like bigfoot or the greay Aliens at area 51. There is nothing to convince me about the death of the "Trinity" engine but sheer speculation that is less than what the car magazine weathermen are predicting.
Look at the timetable released on S550 development. They started in 2010 on this, and we're still not even close to production yet. It'll be nearly 4 years until the first production intent, saleable car rolls off the line.
12/11/13, 09:11 AM
#49
Legacy TMS Member
Just the block, the 5.4 Lightning wishes it had GT500 guts.
It's easier for Ford to fit a bored/stroked Coyote or simply twin turbos than it is to modify everything to fit the physically taller 5.8 block and then add the blower on top of that.
Hmmmm..... I'm not so sure about that, slapping two turbos in the engine compartment presents a lot of issues that you don't have with a supercharger. The stacked height of the supercharged 5.8 is easier to deal with, especially when your talking a cramped engine compartment and under hood heat issues.
Last edited by bob; 12/11/13 at 09:23 AM.
12/11/13, 09:24 AM
#50
There is plenty done at this point. You don't facilitate a major change in a few months. From design, validation, and testing, those parts take quite a bit of time to get done.
Look at the timetable released on S550 development. They started in 2010 on this, and we're still not even close to production yet. It'll be nearly 4 years until the first production intent, saleable car rolls off the line.
Look at the timetable released on S550 development. They started in 2010 on this, and we're still not even close to production yet. It'll be nearly 4 years until the first production intent, saleable car rolls off the line.
12/11/13, 10:21 AM
#53
Cobra Member
I am loving this thread. Speculation about the possibility of the 5.8 liter in the new Mustang is exciting. Ford has not said they will discontinue the engine. Now , some say the 5.8 will fit in the new Mustang. If a 5.8 liter with the current supercharger fits in the new Mustang, I hope Ford designs a new unique hood for the application.
12/11/13, 10:47 AM
#54
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: September 23, 2008
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12/11/13, 11:00 AM
#56
A Man Just Needs Some....
Some food for thought. Australia's "Miami" V8 found in the FPVs is rated at 335kW (450hp) but everyone knows that's heavily under rated. That figure is what it does at the wheels and our dynos here in Aus account for more driveline loss than what you're used to in the US. With the advent of the latest VF Commodore HSV released it's GTS with GM's LSA. That was rated at 430kW (or 575hp). But on the same dyno it got flogged by the Coyote-based 5.0 Miami both in stock and tuned form (see below). They both have the same size blowers, but Ford's V8 is way in front on efficiency. If LSA is a true 575hp then what does that make the meek Miami? The point is the Coyote can punch even harder with a larger blower - or.... a couple of snails - to match or better Trinity. With Ecoboost technology it would mean Ford's "world's most powerful production V8" title would be under no threat. *Note: it says it's gear 5 used in the HSV but that's a typo. The speed confirms it's 4th.
The forged Boss 5.0L has already been proven to hold a lot of hp. I wouldn't doubt if SVT straps better heads and a blower on the Boss motor and calls it a day. That being said, the 13 GT500 will be a very desirable car to hold on to.
12/11/13, 11:33 AM
#57
Powertrain: We expect the Shelby GT500 will again utilize the 5.8-liter Trinity V-8, and while a power bump is possible, it’s not at all necessary. The GT500 today struggles to lay down the power and is plenty quick—with the next-gen Mustang’s expected weight reduction, more power would seem superfluous. Once again, the GT500 should get just a single transmission option: a six-speed manual.
Reference: Car and Driver Retrieved from: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
Reference: Car and Driver Retrieved from: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
12/11/13, 11:39 AM
#58
To be fair Road and Track belives in your theory that the "Trinity" is dead. So there is a Car and Driver theory and a Road and Track Theory.
And this is it: the Shelby GT350, which will likely bow as a 2016 model. As we've already reported, the next snake will abandon the current GT500's lunatic-fringe 662-hp supercharged engine. It's bittersweet, because I just drove a GT500 last week, and it is a borderline religious expperience, even if it wants to break traction ALL THE TIME.
Retrieved from:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...t350-spy-shots
And this is it: the Shelby GT350, which will likely bow as a 2016 model. As we've already reported, the next snake will abandon the current GT500's lunatic-fringe 662-hp supercharged engine. It's bittersweet, because I just drove a GT500 last week, and it is a borderline religious expperience, even if it wants to break traction ALL THE TIME.
Retrieved from:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...t350-spy-shots
12/11/13, 11:39 AM
#59
Powertrain: We expect the Shelby GT500 will again utilize the 5.8-liter Trinity V-8, and while a power bump is possible, it’s not at all necessary. The GT500 today struggles to lay down the power and is plenty quick—with the next-gen Mustang’s expected weight reduction, more power would seem superfluous. Once again, the GT500 should get just a single transmission option: a six-speed manual.
Reference: Car and Driver Retrieved from: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
Reference: Car and Driver Retrieved from: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
12/11/13, 11:57 AM
#60
Interview with Ford Engineers. Leans away from the idea of a flat plane crank engine.
The flat-plane-crank V8 rumored for an upcoming Shelby model was not mentioned.
Retrieved from: http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first...-mustang-debut
The flat-plane-crank V8 rumored for an upcoming Shelby model was not mentioned.
Retrieved from: http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first...-mustang-debut