Critical Mass

Learn to drive it, and it won't matter. 95% of drivers don't really know how to drive their cars, regardless of what car it is. Traction Control? Isn't that what your right foot and steering wheel is for?

rhumb

Motor Trend has an interesting piece on the S550's IRS, and most previous Mustangs lack thereof.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...ar_suspension/


Here's an interesting link in there on how the S197 lost its IRS in some ill-conceived $100 penny-pinching move by a suit in top floor corporate that ended up costing $100 more than had they left the already designed and developed IRS in, never mind the ride/handling degradation the Mustang had to endure for yet another decade.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/2010-for...ough-2358.html

cdynaco

Yep. On both counts.

Thought it was interesting how F1 changed rules this race by disallowing the FRIC system which helped reduce the inherent bouncing of the rear IRS by (hydraulically?) tying the rear suspension to the front. The slomo over the curbs was telling. And several drivers were having difficulty.

Again, IRS is not the magic bullet some pretend it is. And many are going to find out the hard way.

newpony

No true at all. FRIC was designed to keep all four corners at a constant height under braking, acceleration and cornering. Basically to fight weight transfer which happens wether the car is equipped IRS or SRA.

There is not inherit bouncing with IRS. Actually there is more bounce with SRA because it has more sprung weight which is more difficult for the suspension to control.

rhumb

True, while IRS will be a big improvement, it doesn't repeal the laws of physics or laws of stupid. One can see this all the time when some AWD SUV goes flying down some wet or snowy road, seemingly immune from harm only to end up turtled in some ditch a half mile away.

No sooner after someone invents a better idiot proof system then someone else comes along with a better idiot.

typesredline

Great read!

cdynaco

Did you watch the qualifying broadcast and listen to the explanation? The 'hinging' of the IRS is what was pointed out along with the slomo. While the SRA has different issues, hinging certainly isn't one of them.
But by all means you pinkies up beemer crowd keep bowing to your irs god.

newpony

I didn't watch that particular broadcast but here is a link that explains it all and in very good technical detail http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/fric.html. I think the term "hinging" the broadcaster or analyst was referring to car tendency of pitch or roll when cornering, braking or accelerating which, I believe we can all agree with this, also happens with SRA based suspension or any type of suspension for that matter as long car keep using spring and shocks that allows suspension travel. If you think SRA is so good why has it been abandoned by all car manufacturers that still give a **** about performance and handling? Why haven't F1 teams gone back to SRA? I believe your SRA god is betraying you or you are just too blind to see.

cdynaco

Come on man.... you guys are beating a dead horse. We all know the story.

newpony

Well if you are not willing to learn then please do all a favor and stop spreading misinformation specially for things you obviously don't understand.

White2010

The debate about whether IRS vs SRA will go on for a long time I'm sure. I look at it like this.

Whether its Ford, Toyota or any one of these other mainline multi-national car companies the reality is that what they do is build cars for as little money as possible and then rip us off for as much money as they can get for said cars. To that end, the Mustang is no different and I'm not trying to **** the Mustang, it's my favorite car. Furthermore the current Mustang is orders of magnitude better than a stock Mustang from say the late 80's for example. But as good as it is it is also a car that, make no mistake, Ford built as cheaply as they could in order to maximize profits. The fact that most Mustangs don't even have a painted axle is an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. That's a move that probably saves Ford about 10 bucks an axle in painting costs. Over the course of many thousands of axles its is big savings for Ford and that means more profit but if given the choice between a rusty axle on a brand new Mustang or for 10 bucks more you have a painted axle I think the majority of customers would pay the 10 bucks. I give that example to make this point. Regardless of how well the Mustang performs on its new independent rear suspension make no mistake that Ford did everything they could do to cut costs in that IRS and still make it functional. They did the same thing with the solid axle that is on the S197 chassis. The funny thing about the S197 is that in its original configuration it was designed to have IRS. Why was the IRS dropped? You guessed it, so Ford could save money on production costs. In that case to the tune of something like $100 per car. So all of us S197 owners ended up with SRA on a car that was designed to have IRS so that Ford could save $100 per car. Who's a big Ford fan now? Not me.

Now I say all of that to say this. If you really want your Mustang to be all that it can be, don't look to Ford to make it happen. Ford is interested in one thing, getting you to pay as much as they figure you'll pay for their cars regardless of whether the car is actually worth that amount. It isn't that difficult to get a Mustang with a SRA to be an absolute beast on the handling. We've probably all seen the video of the SRA Mustang putting down some serious lap times at Nurburgin. So it can be done. The point is that you just have to go aftermarket and do it yourself. One of the great things about the Mustang is that it is an immensely popular car with the aftermarket crowd and that means that just about every aspect of the car can be improved with aftermarket parts that are better made and perform better than stock parts. I'm sure that once the 2015 hits the market that same aftermarket will develop ways to make the IRS even better than what you get from the factory. So for me, I don't get all wrapped around the axle about this stuff (pun intended). I know that I can take my simple old V6 Mustang and turn it into a serious performance machine with aftermarket parts and its really not that difficult, live axle and all.

KushBandit

I'll add to this topic

SRA is better for drag racing, IRS is better for track racing/AutoX (cornering). IRS produces more wheel hop than a live axle, but IRS can dig into the corners harder than a live axle. A watts link will help the live axle in that aspect.

As White2010 said, I doubt Ford will put in a sophisticated IRS system on the S550. It's gonna be a cheap IRS setup, like on the '04-'06 GTOs, I guarantee it.

cdynaco

Tony Alonso

Have you come to that conclusion after studying photos of it?

Tony Alonso

To the OP - this is one of these debates that doesn't have a definitive answer since your particular use case matters most. No one has road tested anything yet, but the promise is that you will feel a couple of things differently between the S197 and S550 on the road - 1) how much the car rears up and noses down under hard acceleration and braking, 2) the lessening of the impact of bumpy surfaces while cornering, and 3) putting the power down coming out of the corners.

Since what we mainly have as experience is based on how and where people drive their cars, I think the decision of live axle vs IRS really comes down to how much you like the current car vs the new one. Having driven live axle Mustangs for many years primarily as daily drivers, I can safely say that the live axle shows some skittishness in some cases but it's not horrible. The S197 Mustangs have a nicely tied down suspension compared to the SN-95s, but the longer wheelbase and stiffer structure help the current car's case in terms of live axle.

I do look forward to what the potential benefits will be with the IRS using the car as a daily driver. However, if your requirements tend to get more specific to high-performance driving on race tracks (straight or curved), then we don't really know what the limitations are going to be until people try them.

Having been of Ford's development road course in Michigan and having been driven around in Ford cars by the ride and handling engineers, I think they are planning for a great overall driving experience in the new car.

Good luck in your decision.

Krohn

That was a good read... It pretty much sums up the move to an IRS. The LRA has it's perks but in the big picture, the IRS has more. It's pretty simple to understand. So, now that it's affordable (to Ford), it only makes sense for them to move to that.
Again though... I still like my Boss and I doubt I'd notice the difference on the way to and from work.

rhumb

While that's sometimes taken as an article of faith, I don't think it's necessarily true. I was just reading up on C&D's test of the SRA Boss Mustang and you guessed it, issues with axle tramp:

Don't forget the legions of lively-axled Mustangs that had to add on all manner of crutches ("traction bars") to alleviate wheel hop and axle tramp.

On the other hand, at least that initial video of a Mustang GT showing off its linelock feature shows a perfectly planted and stable rear end, but that's just one video.

JoeMidnight

We just bought my wife a 2014 Hyundai Santa fe sport and my 2014 v6 mustang with the performance pack feels MUCH smoother on the road and just about everything on the mustang is better.

its quieter at cruising speed, Just drives much better when going of cracks, train tracks, corners pot holes. it feels smoother almost every time, it doesn't feel like the car is out of sorts like the santa fe does.

I know the mustang and santa fe and completely different cars in every way. I figured I would still share this with you considering you have a Santa Fe.

I should correct myself. when I said its quieter at cruising speed. what I meant is I don't hear the elements around me like I do with the Santa fe. I don't hear cars or the road or wind noise or anything like that in the mustang as much as we do in the Santa fe in comparison if we were on the highway.

cdynaco

Again, using a line lock is apples to oranges compared to trying to get traction and forward momentum under power. Any car can sit and spin with a front line lock. It proves nothing.

I have not had any wheel hop issues on Bullitt. I have zero after market parts.

cdynaco

idk, my 1983 F150 4x has IFS (TTB) with 254k on it and it's still pullin!

Had to replace the joints a couple of times though - something that has not had to be done on the SRA. lol