It's gonna have a Turbo too.
2/19/11, 06:09 AM
#23
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Im assuming he is assuming that. But i am not assuming that. hope that made sence. I am 95 percent positive the 3.5 eb wont see the stang in the near future. Besides why would you invest money into a bad *** engine that is scheduled for the next high performance mustang and then decide only to use the 3.5 eb
2/19/11, 09:32 AM
#24
You can bet dollars to donuts that the mainstream production turbo mill that is going to see Mustang duty is an EcoBoost four which will replace the 3.7L V-6. In fact, for Ford, I would argue that this move is a verifiable no-brainer. From their end the only thing the turbo four potentially gives up to the V-6 is some nvh, but it will almost certainly bring superior low and mid range torque, superior fuel economy, lighter weight, and cheaper/easier tunability to the table.
Even more, in contrast to how this relationship seems to work the majority of the time in other applications, among enthusiasts the idea of a turbo four under the hood of a Mustang seems to garner a lot more performance credibility than the new V-6 has been able to scrape together. My guess says that this is likely because enthusiasts seem to mutter 'SVO' every time a turbo four is even hinted at while the new V-6 apparently makes everybody think of their sister's old 3.8L or 4.0L powered version rather than the potential 350Z killer the 3.7L really hints at. And, IMO, this is probably why the 3.7L has garnered amazingly little attention from the enthusiast community as a whole despite being a real performance bargain.
Perception matters, and the pre 3.7L V-6 engines of the last two decades have, IMHO, given the 3.7L a much more difficult row to hoe if it is going to garner real respectability compared to what a 2.5L EB I-4 would have. A 2.0-2.5L EB I-4 powered base Mustang topped by a 5.0L V-8 powered GT model is probably a pretty safe bet for the future.
Even more, in contrast to how this relationship seems to work the majority of the time in other applications, among enthusiasts the idea of a turbo four under the hood of a Mustang seems to garner a lot more performance credibility than the new V-6 has been able to scrape together. My guess says that this is likely because enthusiasts seem to mutter 'SVO' every time a turbo four is even hinted at while the new V-6 apparently makes everybody think of their sister's old 3.8L or 4.0L powered version rather than the potential 350Z killer the 3.7L really hints at. And, IMO, this is probably why the 3.7L has garnered amazingly little attention from the enthusiast community as a whole despite being a real performance bargain.
Perception matters, and the pre 3.7L V-6 engines of the last two decades have, IMHO, given the 3.7L a much more difficult row to hoe if it is going to garner real respectability compared to what a 2.5L EB I-4 would have. A 2.0-2.5L EB I-4 powered base Mustang topped by a 5.0L V-8 powered GT model is probably a pretty safe bet for the future.
Last edited by jsaylor; 2/19/11 at 09:34 AM.
2/19/11, 11:04 AM
#25
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^^^ and it would probably help Ford achieve a higher CAFE number needed since there would be more boosted 4's running around, given the #s of V6 Mustangs currently being sold. It would be hilarious to see such an engine being swapped into import RWD cars - instead of the F20C/F22C, 4AGE, and the SR20DET or even the odd Mazda rotary. You know turbo I4 Fox and Ranger enthusiasts would be all over this.
2/19/11, 10:32 PM
#27
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My guess, two turbos:
A turbo I4 at the lower end to take on the role as the bottom feeder from the 3.7 V6.
At the high end, what will replace the GT 500's oldish 5.4 but a twin turbo 5.0. Th only possible exception to this might be that a GT 500 mill would be a SC 5.0 as the Aussies seem to be doing.
A turbo I4 at the lower end to take on the role as the bottom feeder from the 3.7 V6.
At the high end, what will replace the GT 500's oldish 5.4 but a twin turbo 5.0. Th only possible exception to this might be that a GT 500 mill would be a SC 5.0 as the Aussies seem to be doing.
2/19/11, 11:38 PM
#28
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My guess, two turbos:
A turbo I4 at the lower end to take on the role as the bottom feeder from the 3.7 V6.
At the high end, what will replace the GT 500's oldish 5.4 but a twin turbo 5.0. Th only possible exception to this might be that a GT 500 mill would be a SC 5.0 as the Aussies seem to be doing.
A turbo I4 at the lower end to take on the role as the bottom feeder from the 3.7 V6.
At the high end, what will replace the GT 500's oldish 5.4 but a twin turbo 5.0. Th only possible exception to this might be that a GT 500 mill would be a SC 5.0 as the Aussies seem to be doing.
Having options will only help the stang...not hurt it.
2/20/11, 01:33 AM
#29
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Thats exactly what I'am evisioning for the stang but some here believe that the eco-4 will totally replace the v6 which i believe they won't. Ford already does this with both the Edge and Explorer and I see no reason why they wouldn't offer this with mustang as well. Not to mention Hyundai does this with their Genesis coupe as well as rumors of GM offering a turbo 4 as the base engine for their next-gen camaro.
Having options will only help the stang...not hurt it.
Having options will only help the stang...not hurt it.
If the next model is significantly lighter, the 3.7 could make for an amazing performance car without any sacrifices that come with a V8. I don't want to see the V8 Mustang wither and die, but it is possible that it could be offered as a more premium option/model rather than middle of the road.
2/20/11, 09:10 AM
#30
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Yeah, I don't see the 3.7 being replaced, though it will become a mid tier model rather than the bread and butter base model that it is now. The four banger may wait until a lighter NextStang comes along so it still has a decent power to weight ratio (no more butt dragger Stangs).
Slapping some turbos, or a supercharger, on the 5.0 is pretty obvious, really, given that the 5.4 basically has one foot in the grave already (isn't the Stang its last bastion?) and Ford and the Mustang still need a halo performance car.
Slapping some turbos, or a supercharger, on the 5.0 is pretty obvious, really, given that the 5.4 basically has one foot in the grave already (isn't the Stang its last bastion?) and Ford and the Mustang still need a halo performance car.
2/20/11, 12:03 PM
#31
The only way the naturally aspirated 3.7L V-6 could really be made to work alongside a turbo four cylinder model in the Mustang lineup is if that turbo four were the 2.0L EB. Go with anything bigger in the 2.3 to 2.5L range and the four cylinder is almost certainly going to be both faster and more fuel efficient than the big six and likely wouldn't cost much if any more to produce. My bet still says we'll see a 2.0L EB four, a 2.5L EB four, or a 3.7L V-6 with not much possibility of an and anywhere in there for the near term.
Personally, the 2.5L EB I4 is the one that has me drooling, because in a smaller and lighter next gen Mustang such an engine would almost certainly make for a mid to low 13 second machine that knocks down mid 30's on the highway and handles like a Boss 302. Offer that in the low to mid 20's and, to be blunt, one has to wonder how the oft-rumored Capri is going to be able to make a name for itself should that car actually come to pass.
Base model: 2.5L EB four producing ~300hp and ~300lb-ft tq with a ~3200lb curb weight.
GT: 5.0L Coyote producing ~450hp and ~390lb-ft tq with a ~3400lb curb weight.
GT500: Could get interesting.
Yeah, I'll take that lineup. In fact, I would argue that the base model and GT look a lot like a modern day versions of the old Porsche 944 turbo and 928 GT models respectively. That is no bad thing.
Personally, the 2.5L EB I4 is the one that has me drooling, because in a smaller and lighter next gen Mustang such an engine would almost certainly make for a mid to low 13 second machine that knocks down mid 30's on the highway and handles like a Boss 302. Offer that in the low to mid 20's and, to be blunt, one has to wonder how the oft-rumored Capri is going to be able to make a name for itself should that car actually come to pass.
Base model: 2.5L EB four producing ~300hp and ~300lb-ft tq with a ~3200lb curb weight.
GT: 5.0L Coyote producing ~450hp and ~390lb-ft tq with a ~3400lb curb weight.
GT500: Could get interesting.
Yeah, I'll take that lineup. In fact, I would argue that the base model and GT look a lot like a modern day versions of the old Porsche 944 turbo and 928 GT models respectively. That is no bad thing.
Last edited by jsaylor; 2/20/11 at 12:06 PM.
2/20/11, 12:31 PM
#32
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The only way the naturally aspirated 3.7L V-6 could really be made to work alongside a turbo four cylinder model in the Mustang lineup is if that turbo four were the 2.0L EB. Go with anything bigger in the 2.3 to 2.5L range and the four cylinder is almost certainly going to be both faster and more fuel efficient than the big six and likely wouldn't cost much if any more to produce. My bet still says we'll see a 2.0L EB four, a 2.5L EB four, or a 3.7L V-6 with not much possibility of an and anywhere in there for the near term.
Personally, the 2.5L EB I4 is the one that has me drooling, because in a smaller and lighter next gen Mustang such an engine would almost certainly make for a mid to low 13 second machine that knocks down mid 30's on the highway and handles like a Boss 302. Offer that in the low to mid 20's and, to be blunt, one has to wonder how the oft-rumored Capri is going to be able to make a name for itself should that car actually come to pass.
Base model: 2.5L EB four producing ~300hp and ~300lb-ft tq with a ~3200lb curb weight.
GT: 5.0L Coyote producing ~450hp and ~390lb-ft tq with a ~3400lb curb weight.
GT500: Could get interesting.
Yeah, I'll take that lineup. In fact, I would argue that the base model and GT look a lot like a modern day versions of the old Porsche 944 turbo and 928 GT models respectively. That is no bad thing.
Personally, the 2.5L EB I4 is the one that has me drooling, because in a smaller and lighter next gen Mustang such an engine would almost certainly make for a mid to low 13 second machine that knocks down mid 30's on the highway and handles like a Boss 302. Offer that in the low to mid 20's and, to be blunt, one has to wonder how the oft-rumored Capri is going to be able to make a name for itself should that car actually come to pass.
Base model: 2.5L EB four producing ~300hp and ~300lb-ft tq with a ~3200lb curb weight.
GT: 5.0L Coyote producing ~450hp and ~390lb-ft tq with a ~3400lb curb weight.
GT500: Could get interesting.
Yeah, I'll take that lineup. In fact, I would argue that the base model and GT look a lot like a modern day versions of the old Porsche 944 turbo and 928 GT models respectively. That is no bad thing.
2/21/11, 10:42 AM
#33
Shelby GT350 Member
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I hate to admit it but the talk of perception really is key. The V6 Mustangs have always been awful until 2011. Not saying they haven't been bulletproof but they are more work horse than pony.
That said, we all know what 4 cylinder turbos can do. Especially with the new technologies put fourth in the GT500's 5.4L, use those the same way for a new 4 cylinder. The Turbo 4 would garner more attention than the current V6.
Which brings me to another point. With all the advacements the 5.4L has undergone, I just don't know how "on it's way out" that engine can be. Unless it was the testbed for another engine. Otherwise, the new 5.4L is a gem.
That said, we all know what 4 cylinder turbos can do. Especially with the new technologies put fourth in the GT500's 5.4L, use those the same way for a new 4 cylinder. The Turbo 4 would garner more attention than the current V6.
Which brings me to another point. With all the advacements the 5.4L has undergone, I just don't know how "on it's way out" that engine can be. Unless it was the testbed for another engine. Otherwise, the new 5.4L is a gem.
2/23/11, 04:22 PM
#35
I Have No Life
We do...
Lots of other people don't.
They still see V6 as a V6 and its not a V8....
However I wonder the effect it will have on people if it says 'turbo' or 'super' (usually associated with power and speed) will change those perceptions, or will it still be "its not a GT or V8"
Lots of other people don't.
They still see V6 as a V6 and its not a V8....
However I wonder the effect it will have on people if it says 'turbo' or 'super' (usually associated with power and speed) will change those perceptions, or will it still be "its not a GT or V8"
2/24/11, 11:13 AM
#39
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We do...
Lots of other people don't.
They still see V6 as a V6 and its not a V8....
However I wonder the effect it will have on people if it says 'turbo' or 'super' (usually associated with power and speed) will change those perceptions, or will it still be "its not a GT or V8"
Lots of other people don't.
They still see V6 as a V6 and its not a V8....
However I wonder the effect it will have on people if it says 'turbo' or 'super' (usually associated with power and speed) will change those perceptions, or will it still be "its not a GT or V8"
Yes, I am sure there would be a buzz if "Turbo" or "Super" was added to the V6! I would love to see that happen.
As for the Turbo 4? Unless its a SVO Type Mustang, I don't expect a ton of excitement. Maybe from the younger crowd?
2/24/11, 12:09 PM
#40
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Yeah, but a turbo V6 and a NA V8 do not really work together unless the model sells as much as the F150 does. Now we have a 300+hp and a 400+ hp car. How could Ford get a turbo V6 without having too many options to be practical? It seems clear that very few people here would trade the Coyote for an ecoboost v6. A turbo I4 and a NA V8 could be a killer combo though. The V6 engine is so good though, it is hard to beat.