View Poll Results: 5.0 horsepower
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2015 5.0 horsepower vote
5/31/14 | 06:51 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Bullitt Member
Joined: May 11, 2013
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
2015 5.0 horsepower vote
-New cams with 1mm more intake lift and 2mm more lift on the exhaust side
-New cylinder heads with revised high-flow ports and slightly larger valves
-Mid-lock cam phasers to provide greater range of cam timing on the intake side
-A revised intake manifold with charge-motion control valves.
-The forged connecting rods from the current Boss 302 engine
-The forged balanced crank from the current Boss 302 engine
-Revised piston tops
-The valve springs from the current Boss 302 engine
-Standard oil cooler
-7000rpm redline/limiter same as before
I'm guessing that either the leaked power increase of 10hp and 6 lb-ft is bull**** or Ford is underrating this engine. It's basically going to have the Cobra Jet intake cams, Boss exhaust cams, Boss heads with bigger valves (that even the CJ did not get), Boss rotating assembly, and a new intake manifold. I can't see it having less hp than the Boss engine and really it should have substantially more. 440hp is my vote
-New cylinder heads with revised high-flow ports and slightly larger valves
-Mid-lock cam phasers to provide greater range of cam timing on the intake side
-A revised intake manifold with charge-motion control valves.
-The forged connecting rods from the current Boss 302 engine
-The forged balanced crank from the current Boss 302 engine
-Revised piston tops
-The valve springs from the current Boss 302 engine
-Standard oil cooler
-7000rpm redline/limiter same as before
I'm guessing that either the leaked power increase of 10hp and 6 lb-ft is bull**** or Ford is underrating this engine. It's basically going to have the Cobra Jet intake cams, Boss exhaust cams, Boss heads with bigger valves (that even the CJ did not get), Boss rotating assembly, and a new intake manifold. I can't see it having less hp than the Boss engine and really it should have substantially more. 440hp is my vote
Last edited by Gogoggansgo; 5/31/14 at 07:11 AM.
5/31/14 | 03:22 PM
#11
Given basically Boss+ specs, I would guess Boss+ power - 450-460.
5/31/14 | 08:08 PM
#13
Cobra Member
Joined: February 11, 2013
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 21
From: Florida
-New cams with 1mm more intake lift and 2mm more lift on the exhaust side
-New cylinder heads with revised high-flow ports and slightly larger valves
-Mid-lock cam phasers to provide greater range of cam timing on the intake side
-A revised intake manifold with charge-motion control valves.
-The forged connecting rods from the current Boss 302 engine
-The forged balanced crank from the current Boss 302 engine
-Revised piston tops
-The valve springs from the current Boss 302 engine
-Standard oil cooler
-7000rpm redline/limiter same as before
I'm guessing that either the leaked power increase of 10hp and 6 lb-ft is bull**** or Ford is underrating this engine. It's basically going to have the Cobra Jet intake cams, Boss exhaust cams, Boss heads with bigger valves (that even the CJ did not get), Boss rotating assembly, and a new intake manifold. I can't see it having less hp than the Boss engine and really it should have substantially more. 440hp is my vote
-New cylinder heads with revised high-flow ports and slightly larger valves
-Mid-lock cam phasers to provide greater range of cam timing on the intake side
-A revised intake manifold with charge-motion control valves.
-The forged connecting rods from the current Boss 302 engine
-The forged balanced crank from the current Boss 302 engine
-Revised piston tops
-The valve springs from the current Boss 302 engine
-Standard oil cooler
-7000rpm redline/limiter same as before
I'm guessing that either the leaked power increase of 10hp and 6 lb-ft is bull**** or Ford is underrating this engine. It's basically going to have the Cobra Jet intake cams, Boss exhaust cams, Boss heads with bigger valves (that even the CJ did not get), Boss rotating assembly, and a new intake manifold. I can't see it having less hp than the Boss engine and really it should have substantially more. 440hp is my vote
The new cams, heads, and intake mani are the only power adders changed. The others have to do with power band and reliability. Since we are not talking about how much faster and just peak hp and tq, again it's only 3 things.
The boss also had those same 3 differences from the gt (albeit different). It gained 24 hp over the gt and lost tq. Most of this we know is from the manifold. So again I don't understand "substantially more".
The cams and heads are better than the old gt but not much better than the boss so those wash. Bottom line is that these additions to the new 5.0 will gain hp, but since the "revised manifold" still isn't designed for high hp like the boss mani was, not more than 444.
What will happen though is that it won't lose tq. I say 435hp (bc I also think ford specifically won't want to trump the boss in hp), and 400-405tq.
5/31/14 | 08:14 PM
#14
Cobra Member
Joined: February 11, 2013
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 21
From: Florida
You guys are killing me lol. The heads and cams and negligibly better than the boss, yet the manifold even though revised, still has long runners. Look what the cams and heads did for the boss...the gain in tq was small enough to be erased by the short runners of the boss mani.
The new gt will not have more peak hp than the boss. It will gain some power AND tq.
The new gt will not have more peak hp than the boss. It will gain some power AND tq.
5/31/14 | 08:21 PM
#15
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
I agree with the 450HP camp. With a flatter torque curve and no less low end than the GT's (CMCV's) in spite of the improved breathing/revised TiVCT with mid lock outs/better exhaust scavenging at higher RPM.
Plus its a good round number that even sales people can remember. lolol
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/31/14 at 08:24 PM.
5/31/14 | 08:30 PM
#16
Cobra Member
Joined: February 11, 2013
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 21
From: Florida
I disagree. Those 'only 3 things' are significant. As we learned with the initial 5.0 release over the 4.6, BETTER BREATHING was KEY for an increase of 100HP. Not the measly 21 cubes. I agree with the 450HP camp. With a flatter torque curve and no less low end than the GT's (CMCV's) in spite of the improved breathing/revised TiVCT with mid lock outs/better exhaust scavenging at higher RPM. Plus its a good round number that even sales people can remember. lolol
From there you are comparing the 5.0 to the 4.6 power gains being from better breathing alone?? No way man. The 5.0 is a modern marvel. The old 4.6 was from the Stone Age.
We have proof ON the 5.0 that new heads, cams, and a short runner intake manifold designed for peaky hp numbers only gained 24 hp.
So you're saying that barely better cams than the boss, and almost the exact same heads and a "revised" LONG runner manifold will have more than 444hp??? No way bro. Obviously it will gain some hp, but most of those items will add tq.
Last edited by typesredline; 5/31/14 at 08:34 PM.
5/31/14 | 09:02 PM
#17
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
Look. I specifically said that if we are talking about peak power, it's only 3 things that affect it. So we agree with tq curve etc.
From there you are comparing the 5.0 to the 4.6 power gains being from better breathing?? No way man. The 5.0 is a modern marvel. The old 4.6 was from the Stone Age.
We have proof ON the 5.0 that new heads, cams, and a short runner intake manifold designed for peaky hp numbers only gained 24 hp.
So you're saying that barely better cams than the boss, and almost the exact same heads and a "revised" LONG runner manifold will have more than 444hp??? No way bro. Obviously it will gain some hp, but most of those items will add tq.
From there you are comparing the 5.0 to the 4.6 power gains being from better breathing?? No way man. The 5.0 is a modern marvel. The old 4.6 was from the Stone Age.
We have proof ON the 5.0 that new heads, cams, and a short runner intake manifold designed for peaky hp numbers only gained 24 hp.
So you're saying that barely better cams than the boss, and almost the exact same heads and a "revised" LONG runner manifold will have more than 444hp??? No way bro. Obviously it will gain some hp, but most of those items will add tq.
Different pistons, cams, larger valves with more tweaking (breathing) to the intake manifold to match, better control of the TiVCT at both the low end & high end (for both power and EPA crud)...As far as the 4.6, why was it from the stone age? Because the 3V SOHC concept came out of the 427 Cammer from the 60's? The 5.0 uses pistons and cams, fuel injection and exhaust, its an internal combustion engine where there isn't much new under the sun....
Your comment shows you are just spewing now.
The 5.0 is still based on many Ford manufacturing/engineering criteria as the 4.6 - incl OHC (vs the old pushrod 5.0), the CMCV's, Variable Cam Timing, same Modular bore centers & deck height, hydraulic adjusted extended reach finger followers allowing flexibility in port configuation, etc. The 5.4L, 6.8L V10, even the record setting Trinity 5.8L monster (with a little help from PTWA), are all based off the basics of the 4.6L block (with added deck height/stroke). What happened above the cylinders made all the difference.
If Ford had put the same engineering into breathing for the 4.6, you would have seen a significant increase in stats for the 3V - to where the 5.0 number wouldn't stand out as much. But it was time for something new and to resurrect the 5.0/302 moniker.
What really helped the 5.0 was drastically better breathing (read up Bud) - incl & esp at the max redline 7k vs 6.5k, and the improved separate in/ex cam control that hydraulic and cam torque actuated variable timing of a DOHC vs what you can do with an SOHC. It's still "60's based" cam action for maximum flow at maximum RPM.
But I've got news for you (and a few other's on TMS that thought the 5.0 was an alien gift from outer space), 302 cubes over 281 isn't nothin. That improved 100HP came from what happened above the cylinders - like Colin Chapman of Lotus often said.
The Short-Block
Because a major mandate of the Coyote program was utilizing Ford's existing V-8 mass-production capabilities, and because 5.0 liters was considered the appropriate displacement, the jumping-off point for the Coyote was the closest existing engine, the Three-Valve 4.6 V-8.
Because a major mandate of the Coyote program was utilizing Ford's existing V-8 mass-production capabilities, and because 5.0 liters was considered the appropriate displacement, the jumping-off point for the Coyote was the closest existing engine, the Three-Valve 4.6 V-8.
Hell, from 91 - 2008 Ford took the 4.6 from 190HP - 315HP remember? Surely they can get 6 more out of the Road Runner.
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/1/14 at 02:35 PM.
5/31/14 | 09:38 PM
#18
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 6, 2006
Posts: 14,047
Likes: 166
From: Bay Area, CA
You don't think it can gain 6 HP?? Different pistons, cams, larger valves with more tweaking (breathing) to the intake manifold to match, better control of the TiVCT at both the low end & high end (for both power and EPA crud)... As far as the 4.6, why was it from the stone age? Because the 3V SOHC concept came out of the 427 Cammer from the 60's? The 5.0 uses pistons and cams, fuel injection and exhaust, its an internal combustion engine where there isn't much new under the sun.... Your goofy comment shows you are just spewing now. The 5.0 is still based on many Ford manufacturing/engineering criteria as the 4.6 - incl OHC (vs the old pushrod 5.0), the CMCV's, Variable Cam Timing, same Modular bore centers & deck height, hydraulic action extended reach finger followers allowing flexibility in port configuation, etc. If Ford had put the same engineering into breathing for the 4.6, you would have seen a significant increase in stats for the 3V - to where the 5.0 number wouldn't stand out as much. But it was time for something new and to resurrect the 5.0/302 moniker. What really helped the 5.0 was drastically better breathing (read up Bud) - incl & esp at the max redline 7k vs 6.5k, and the improved separate in/ex cam control that hydraulic and cam torque actuated variable timing of a DOHC vs what you can do with an SOHC. It's still "60's based" cam action for maximum flow at maximum RPM. But I've got news for you (and a few other's on TMS that thought the 5.0 was an alien gift from outer space), 302 cubes over 281 isn't nothin. That improved 100HP came from what happened above the cylinder head - like Colin Chapman of Lotus often said. I don't think its much of a stretch to get 450HP out of the new 5.0 with 4yrs under Ford's belt at 420/444. Hell, from 91 - 2008 Ford took the 4.6 from 190HP - 315HP remember? Surely they can get 6 more out of the Road Runner.
Different pistons, cams, larger valves with more tweaking (breathing) to the intake manifold to match, better control of the TiVCT at both the low end & high end (for both power and EPA crud)... As far as the 4.6, why was it from the stone age? Because the 3V SOHC concept came out of the 427 Cammer from the 60's? The 5.0 uses pistons and cams, fuel injection and exhaust, its an internal combustion engine where there isn't much new under the sun.... Your goofy comment shows you are just spewing now. The 5.0 is still based on many Ford manufacturing/engineering criteria as the 4.6 - incl OHC (vs the old pushrod 5.0), the CMCV's, Variable Cam Timing, same Modular bore centers & deck height, hydraulic action extended reach finger followers allowing flexibility in port configuation, etc. If Ford had put the same engineering into breathing for the 4.6, you would have seen a significant increase in stats for the 3V - to where the 5.0 number wouldn't stand out as much. But it was time for something new and to resurrect the 5.0/302 moniker. What really helped the 5.0 was drastically better breathing (read up Bud) - incl & esp at the max redline 7k vs 6.5k, and the improved separate in/ex cam control that hydraulic and cam torque actuated variable timing of a DOHC vs what you can do with an SOHC. It's still "60's based" cam action for maximum flow at maximum RPM. But I've got news for you (and a few other's on TMS that thought the 5.0 was an alien gift from outer space), 302 cubes over 281 isn't nothin. That improved 100HP came from what happened above the cylinder head - like Colin Chapman of Lotus often said. I don't think its much of a stretch to get 450HP out of the new 5.0 with 4yrs under Ford's belt at 420/444. Hell, from 91 - 2008 Ford took the 4.6 from 190HP - 315HP remember? Surely they can get 6 more out of the Road Runner.
