2014 Mustang GT Engine tick/knock
8/29/15, 08:13 PM
#42
Super Boss Lawman Member
SpectreH,
My total was 388.46 for the TSB.
The tensioner gets in the way of some transmission cooling lines. These cooling lines are pretty expensive. They quoted them to me for around 1100 each.
However, they found a way to bend and clamp the current lines and they're out of the way and safe right now. I'm planning on replacing them though if I can get any traction on the legal path I'm taking.
The tube part numbers are:
CR3Z-7R081-C
CR3Z-7R081-D
full parts list here:
http://cdn.lrsstatic.com/downloads/t...sb12-08-14.pdf
My total was 388.46 for the TSB.
The tensioner gets in the way of some transmission cooling lines. These cooling lines are pretty expensive. They quoted them to me for around 1100 each.
However, they found a way to bend and clamp the current lines and they're out of the way and safe right now. I'm planning on replacing them though if I can get any traction on the legal path I'm taking.
The tube part numbers are:
CR3Z-7R081-C
CR3Z-7R081-D
full parts list here:
http://cdn.lrsstatic.com/downloads/t...sb12-08-14.pdf
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Ralyn Barker (6/29/20)
8/29/15, 08:43 PM
#43
GT Member
Thread Starter
This is exactly why I'm fighting so hard. I crave driving this car and I know exactly how they're supposed to feel. I'm making up reasons to drive it again.
Last edited by jc46002003; 8/29/15 at 08:50 PM.
8/29/15, 08:45 PM
#44
GT Member
Thread Starter
I won't be giving up any time soon. They will answer for their poor decisions.
Last edited by jc46002003; 8/29/15 at 08:46 PM.
9/22/15, 07:07 PM
#45
Mach 1 Member
Had my appointment at my next nearest Dealer as requested per Ford Customer Service. I took a day Vacation and drove the hour one way to the Dealer. Things are still in the process of what can be done on the noise. Anyone else have any news on their cars?
10/30/15, 08:45 PM
#46
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Join Date: August 21, 2012
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I have 2014 GT 13800 miles and have the tick. Local dealer just advised its a carbon build up, advised good quality 87 octane fuel and use Seafoam for next couple of tank fulls. So far the tick sounds more prominent. I will do my part on the fuel. Dealer advised against 91/93 octane fuel. I plan to keep all of my fuel receipts and note the Seafoam use. Will keep you posted
11/11/15, 05:57 PM
#47
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Stil still present after two tanks of Shell 87 fuel with Seafoam. Car runs fine will probably let it go until something happens should be covered under warranty.
11/21/15, 12:34 PM
#48
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It's been a a couple months since you reported that your noise has vanished. I'm looking into a 14 with the same noise. Can you confirm that fix is still going strong. Thank you.
12/16/15, 02:08 AM
#49
GT Member
Thread Starter
Finally heard back from the BBB. They're making Ford buy my car back. I don't know the buy back amount yet as that is set by Ford. If I'm not satisfied with the amount, I can dispute it through the BBB. I'm hoping to know within the next couple days what the final number is.
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Ralyn Barker (6/29/20)
1/16/16, 09:59 PM
#50
GT Member
Thread Starter
Alright guys,
After being in touch with a lemon lawyer and the BBB, I finally received my buy back number from Ford and it is somewhat satisfactory. The number recovers around 85% of my financial losses and it pays off the car which I will soon return to the selling dealer. I've accepted the offer. The final figure actually includes buy back for the original price of the car ( minus the rebate ) and reimbursement for a majority of the money I've spent fixing the car. The drive shaft for example.
The way it worked in my case is the BBB inspected the car in order to replicate the current issues I'm having with it then they made the decision in my favor and ruled to have Ford buy the car back. Now, the BBB just makes the buy back decision and does not calculate the buy back amount. Ford calculates the buy back amount. It appears however that customers are able to dispute the buy back amount offered by Ford. They did negotiate with me on the buy back amount until I was able to get a majority of my losses back.
One thing that I learned that I think you all should know. If you ever have a lemon case with Ford and want to go to court, in most cases, you have to get a arbitration decision first from the BBB BEFORE you can file a lawsuit. It seems we're allowed to reject or accept that BBB decision and if rejected, you can then potentially file with a lawsuit.
Below is a list of warranty repairs and parts that I have replaced on my own, with explanation for replacing those parts.
1. The rear differential was rebuilt by selling dealer Mac Haik Ford Georgetown
The differential was rebuilt due to a deceleration vibration that could be felt on decel from anything above 40 MPH. The issues was so bad that the steering wheel shimmied from the vibrations coming up the drive line. ( put your foot back on the gas then the shimmy went away to a certain extent )
They also had to replace the slip clutches and a few bearings. I knew the clutches were bad since my car was acting like it was one-wheel drive ( told them this and they didn't believe me at first but they finally did rebuild it ) - we also replaced the drive shaft first but that didn't solve the shaking in this early instance of shaking - it was a guess to replace the drive shaft in this instance.
2. Unfortunately Mac Haik Ford Georgetown didn't do a good job on the rear diff. It was very loud after the rebuild. Took it down to Griffith Ford San Marcos and they fixed the problem. Pinion pre-load was way loose at 5 inc. lbs
3. The engine was rebuilt due to the infamous 5.0 tic. This was done at Griffith Ford within the same visit as their rear differential repair. The car was at Griffith from 8-26-14 through 10-30-2014. They had better things to do then to work on my car. The engine tic was reported to the selling dealer but they said the noise was 'normal' because they had other customers reporting the noise, new cars on their lost had the same noise, and their Ford hotline was telling them the noise is normal. The engine rebuild consisted of replacing the crankshaft, number 1 connecting rod and all cap and crank bearings. Engine tic was gone but only for a while. I will go into that later. I'm upset with the amount of time it took but I am grateful that they were willing to do a job that Mac Haik Ford Georgetown refused to do and also corrected the rear dif mistakes they made.
4. The rear lower control arms were replaced ( customer pay ). These were replaced due to a symptom where the car would go over certain bumps, it would shim/wobble and caused increased steering effort. After going to 2 Firestones to have it checked out, I finally learned what the problem's cause was. The 2nd Firestone dealer put the car on a lift and then used a crow bar to find slack in the rear suspension bushing. He checked the 4 lower control arm bushing + the upper control arm large bushing. The tech found one bad bushing. It was the passenger side forward lower control arm bushing. He brought me into the bay and showed me how he found it and showed me the difference in the slack in that bushing as compared with the almost non existent slack in the rest of the lower control arm bushing. The tech was also concerned about the upper control arm large bushing as there were some small cracks in the rubber. So after all this was found I reported my findings to Sames Ford in Bastrop since San Marcos Ford was 'done with me'. I reported to them just the single bad bushing. Took the car too them and left it. They called me back 'there's nothing wrong with your car'. I said 'are sure because we found the bad bushing at Firestone'. They said they'd talk to their foreman. They called me back again and said they put the car on a lift a drove it and found nothing wrong but wanted me to come and show them. I said 'no I can't come up there right now just order the control arms and I'll pay for them' 'I need this done!'. So they did and I picked up the car and that issue was solved.
5. The front lower control arms were replaced twice. Once due to the TSB and once under customer pay. Sames Ford did the first set under TSB. Picked up the car and things seemed to be ok but I still noticed a slight steering wheel shimmy which got progressively worse. Over time it got real bad. So I got to researching and I found out that when you install these lower control arms, you have to torque the control arm nuts while the suspension is under normal load. So thinking that Sames Ford may have overlooked that, I paid Griffith Ford to replace the control arms again and had them make sure they did the nuts while under load ( yes Griffith would see me if I paid and this was almost a year after the rebuild they did on the engine ). This finally resolved the specific steering wheel shimmy that was caused by the damaged bushings. My decision to replaced them again was based upon the assumption that Sames didn't install them correctly. The OEM front lower control arms that Griffith installed are working just fine to this day.
6. Drive shaft was replaced due to a shaking/vibration throughout the car. The center carrier was toast. I found the slack after I took the car to a 3rd party shop and they showed me the slack in the slotted rubber within the center support bracket. So I took the car to Covert Ford Hutto as I had moved to Round Rock Texas. I explained to them the shaking and the slack I found while on a lift. They inspected the car and called me back 'nothing wrong with you car'. So I picked up the car and took the car to Riata Ford. Same story, 'nothing wrong with my car'. So I bought a drive shaft from them and took the car to Christian Brothers automotive and they installed the drive shaft for me. Car felt smoother but still not exactly right. The remaining vibration was coming from the rear center control arm. I'll go into that later.
7. At the same time I order the drive shaft, I also ordered a transmission mount because in addition to the drive shaft shake, I was also getting very harsh shifts in certain situations. Especially in 2nd gear. I could literally feel the power train moving around. The tech at Christian Brothers reported to me that the new mount caused the transmission to actually sit a little high up compared with the old one. Thereby further proving I was justified in replacing this mount. The harsh shifts and power train movement was resolved to an extent.
8. After the trans mount and drive shaft were replaced, I still had some vibration left over. I got to researching the rear upper control arm and started to understand it's job. I bought a new OEM upper control arm with bushing and had Christian Borthers install it. This resolved the remaining vibrations felt from the drive line.
9. Motor mounts - I replaced these under customer pay because there was still some power train movement left over after replacing the transmission mount. Couldn't notice the motor mount movement that well till the transmission mount was replaced. Once the motor mounts were replaced, all the power train movements stopped. All the mounts are tight now.
10. The engine tic came back after the 1st oild change was done after the engine rebuild. The oil change was done at Covert Ford Hutto. After I got the car back from the oil change I noticed the tick. Took it back to Covert Ford Hutto and they heard the noise and agreed to have me leave the car there for troubleshooting. They called me back after a weekend and told me Ford isn't going to approve anymore repairs on the engine. I disputed this through the BBB so Ford sent out an engineer who heard the noise but proceeded to tell me 'there's nothing wrong with the car'. I did some research and then called back Covert Ford and asked them if I could pay them to remove the A/C belt to see if the noise goes away. They said they had to run that by the Ford engineer. They did then called me back and said no they wouldn't do it because they feel there's nothing to fix. I proceeded to disengage from them and the BBB process. I called up the mechanic at Griffith Ford who had previously removed the belt as a troubleshooting step before he rebuilt my motor. I offered to pay Griffith Ford to remove the belt to see if the noise goes way and would potentially pay them for TSB 12-8-14. They called me back and reported that the noise did go away after removing the belt. I advised them to share the results with Ford. I think about 2 weeks went by then they came back and said Ford has no solution and that TSB 12-8-14 doesn't apply to the 2013 and 2014 car. So I thought to myself, 'how can it not apply? My 2014 car has the same stretchy belt that the 11 and 12 cars have'. So I advised Griffith Ford to install the tensioner and new belt. The noise is now solved, to this day.
11. Since replacing all of the above I started noticing a strange sensation coming from the rear. Kind of like how when live axles hop over bumps but to a very harsh extreme on this specific car. So I got to thinking to myself, the only thing left back there are shocks, springs and panhard bar. So I order a panhard bar since I wasn't ever concerned about the shocks or springs, replaced the panhard bar and resolved that issue.
12. Rear dif rebuilt again under customer pay - I found some more noise with it when I put the seat down when transporting the drive shaft I bought that one time mentioned above. I heard a pretty loud whining with the seat down, especially while decelerating from 10 miles per hour. Put the seat back up and was still able to hear it, but obviously harder to hear at that point. Rolled down the window and could also hear it against walls and such. The gear installer found that the backlash was at 12 thousandths and the pre-load was at 4 in. lbs. Ordered a gear install kit and new gears and they set the preload to 26 in. lbs. and backlash to 10 thousandths and rear differential noise is now within acceptable level ( you can hardly hear it now ). They also found browned clutches and replaced those along with excessive metal bits in the oil. They're thinking the reason for the browned clutches is because there was too much friction modifier installed. ( they're probably right because I had the rear diff serviced after Griffith Ford touch it and this solved an issue where the clutches were making the rear hop around during parking lot spot back outs ). The rear differential service fixed the hopping issue after some time of breaking in but unfortunately that service was possibly too late and that's why they found browned clutches.
Conclusions: I firmly believe that the significant slack from the rear passenger side lower control arm forward bushing caused significant stress and/or damage to the upper control arm, panhard bar, the drive shaft carrier, the transmission mount and ultimately the motor mounts. Remember, they're ALL CONNECTED to each other. I was thinking at first that it was just a severe manufacturing quality problem with all rubbers on the car but then I added it all up and thought to myself 'well, the OEM parts are designed to last and there doesn't seem to be a systemic issue with the parts so they must have been over-stressed from the rear lower control arm bushing that was bad. This is why I feel I'm right about this conclusion. I've had a few of these cars and didn't have to replaced any of these parts on those cars. I firmly feel to this day that something is bent within the power train/drive line as my drive shaft carrier is now currently toast again. Even more so than the original drive shaft. There's a horrible shaking feeling in the car right now but different so since the power train is so tight now, due to the new mounts.
In the end, Ford calculated a somewhat appropriate buy back number and I feel that they did this based off a potentially correct comprehension of my issue and trust in me as a technical minded customer. I appreciate the fact that they are reimbursing me for most of the money I've spent fixing the above items and buying the car back. I still have serious concerns over their warranty system but ultimately my issue as a whole is resolved. Thank you to my lemon lawyer, the BBB and the decision maker at Ford who obviously comprehended my issue correctly.
Current issues with the car:
-the drive shaft carrier went to mush again ( shaking came back ) Didn't have this issue with previous cars.
-the front passenger side strut is bad ( makes noise and fails the bounce test while the driver's side does not fail the bounce test )
-it has a severe bump steer problem. It will even bump steer at parking lot speeds over the very slightest of bumps. The BBB drove the car and agreed there was an issue. It drives horribly at the moment. I took the car to Christian Brothers and asked them to check the camber and toe during ride height changes. I have the numbers of the front end ride height changes below:
Pulling the car down ( I think they did 6 inches ) results in:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -1.3 at neg 6 inches ride height ( probably normal )
passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to -1.1 at neg 6 inches ( probably normal )
Total toe goes from .11 at base ride height to .02 at neg 6 inches ( I don't think this is normal but will reserve judgement for an expert )
Lifting the ride height by a mere 3/4's inch from it's base of 6 and a half inches results in the following changes:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -1.0 when raising the car by only 3/4's of an inch ( not so concerned with this )
Passanger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to -0.7 when raising the car by only 3/4's of an inch ( this to me indicates a strut or strut mount problem )
Total toe goes from .11 to .18 when raising ride height by 3/4's of an inch
By the time the ride height is changed by the special lift by 2 inches, we get the following readings:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -0.1 when raising the car by 2 inches
Passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to +0.2 when raising the car by 2 inches
Total toe goes from .11 at base then to .46 at + 2 inches ride height. ( this is the bump steer I'm feeling in the car and will be worse depending on which wheel is hitting a bump )
The passenger side tire is showing horrendous outside cupping while the rest of that tire is ok.
The passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to +0.2 when raising the car by 2 inches with the total toe change to me, confirms a bump steer problem. Probably made worse by a bad strut and strut mount on the passenger side as both the passenger side strut and strut mount are making noise. The drivers side ones aren't making any noise.
In closing, although this situation was very stressful, it was not my fault. I have grown in knowledge and experience from this issue as a whole and I'm somewhat glad it happened. I'm a better person because of it.
Thank you to everyone who has read my post and supported me with their words.
After being in touch with a lemon lawyer and the BBB, I finally received my buy back number from Ford and it is somewhat satisfactory. The number recovers around 85% of my financial losses and it pays off the car which I will soon return to the selling dealer. I've accepted the offer. The final figure actually includes buy back for the original price of the car ( minus the rebate ) and reimbursement for a majority of the money I've spent fixing the car. The drive shaft for example.
The way it worked in my case is the BBB inspected the car in order to replicate the current issues I'm having with it then they made the decision in my favor and ruled to have Ford buy the car back. Now, the BBB just makes the buy back decision and does not calculate the buy back amount. Ford calculates the buy back amount. It appears however that customers are able to dispute the buy back amount offered by Ford. They did negotiate with me on the buy back amount until I was able to get a majority of my losses back.
One thing that I learned that I think you all should know. If you ever have a lemon case with Ford and want to go to court, in most cases, you have to get a arbitration decision first from the BBB BEFORE you can file a lawsuit. It seems we're allowed to reject or accept that BBB decision and if rejected, you can then potentially file with a lawsuit.
Below is a list of warranty repairs and parts that I have replaced on my own, with explanation for replacing those parts.
1. The rear differential was rebuilt by selling dealer Mac Haik Ford Georgetown
The differential was rebuilt due to a deceleration vibration that could be felt on decel from anything above 40 MPH. The issues was so bad that the steering wheel shimmied from the vibrations coming up the drive line. ( put your foot back on the gas then the shimmy went away to a certain extent )
They also had to replace the slip clutches and a few bearings. I knew the clutches were bad since my car was acting like it was one-wheel drive ( told them this and they didn't believe me at first but they finally did rebuild it ) - we also replaced the drive shaft first but that didn't solve the shaking in this early instance of shaking - it was a guess to replace the drive shaft in this instance.
2. Unfortunately Mac Haik Ford Georgetown didn't do a good job on the rear diff. It was very loud after the rebuild. Took it down to Griffith Ford San Marcos and they fixed the problem. Pinion pre-load was way loose at 5 inc. lbs
3. The engine was rebuilt due to the infamous 5.0 tic. This was done at Griffith Ford within the same visit as their rear differential repair. The car was at Griffith from 8-26-14 through 10-30-2014. They had better things to do then to work on my car. The engine tic was reported to the selling dealer but they said the noise was 'normal' because they had other customers reporting the noise, new cars on their lost had the same noise, and their Ford hotline was telling them the noise is normal. The engine rebuild consisted of replacing the crankshaft, number 1 connecting rod and all cap and crank bearings. Engine tic was gone but only for a while. I will go into that later. I'm upset with the amount of time it took but I am grateful that they were willing to do a job that Mac Haik Ford Georgetown refused to do and also corrected the rear dif mistakes they made.
4. The rear lower control arms were replaced ( customer pay ). These were replaced due to a symptom where the car would go over certain bumps, it would shim/wobble and caused increased steering effort. After going to 2 Firestones to have it checked out, I finally learned what the problem's cause was. The 2nd Firestone dealer put the car on a lift and then used a crow bar to find slack in the rear suspension bushing. He checked the 4 lower control arm bushing + the upper control arm large bushing. The tech found one bad bushing. It was the passenger side forward lower control arm bushing. He brought me into the bay and showed me how he found it and showed me the difference in the slack in that bushing as compared with the almost non existent slack in the rest of the lower control arm bushing. The tech was also concerned about the upper control arm large bushing as there were some small cracks in the rubber. So after all this was found I reported my findings to Sames Ford in Bastrop since San Marcos Ford was 'done with me'. I reported to them just the single bad bushing. Took the car too them and left it. They called me back 'there's nothing wrong with your car'. I said 'are sure because we found the bad bushing at Firestone'. They said they'd talk to their foreman. They called me back again and said they put the car on a lift a drove it and found nothing wrong but wanted me to come and show them. I said 'no I can't come up there right now just order the control arms and I'll pay for them' 'I need this done!'. So they did and I picked up the car and that issue was solved.
5. The front lower control arms were replaced twice. Once due to the TSB and once under customer pay. Sames Ford did the first set under TSB. Picked up the car and things seemed to be ok but I still noticed a slight steering wheel shimmy which got progressively worse. Over time it got real bad. So I got to researching and I found out that when you install these lower control arms, you have to torque the control arm nuts while the suspension is under normal load. So thinking that Sames Ford may have overlooked that, I paid Griffith Ford to replace the control arms again and had them make sure they did the nuts while under load ( yes Griffith would see me if I paid and this was almost a year after the rebuild they did on the engine ). This finally resolved the specific steering wheel shimmy that was caused by the damaged bushings. My decision to replaced them again was based upon the assumption that Sames didn't install them correctly. The OEM front lower control arms that Griffith installed are working just fine to this day.
6. Drive shaft was replaced due to a shaking/vibration throughout the car. The center carrier was toast. I found the slack after I took the car to a 3rd party shop and they showed me the slack in the slotted rubber within the center support bracket. So I took the car to Covert Ford Hutto as I had moved to Round Rock Texas. I explained to them the shaking and the slack I found while on a lift. They inspected the car and called me back 'nothing wrong with you car'. So I picked up the car and took the car to Riata Ford. Same story, 'nothing wrong with my car'. So I bought a drive shaft from them and took the car to Christian Brothers automotive and they installed the drive shaft for me. Car felt smoother but still not exactly right. The remaining vibration was coming from the rear center control arm. I'll go into that later.
7. At the same time I order the drive shaft, I also ordered a transmission mount because in addition to the drive shaft shake, I was also getting very harsh shifts in certain situations. Especially in 2nd gear. I could literally feel the power train moving around. The tech at Christian Brothers reported to me that the new mount caused the transmission to actually sit a little high up compared with the old one. Thereby further proving I was justified in replacing this mount. The harsh shifts and power train movement was resolved to an extent.
8. After the trans mount and drive shaft were replaced, I still had some vibration left over. I got to researching the rear upper control arm and started to understand it's job. I bought a new OEM upper control arm with bushing and had Christian Borthers install it. This resolved the remaining vibrations felt from the drive line.
9. Motor mounts - I replaced these under customer pay because there was still some power train movement left over after replacing the transmission mount. Couldn't notice the motor mount movement that well till the transmission mount was replaced. Once the motor mounts were replaced, all the power train movements stopped. All the mounts are tight now.
10. The engine tic came back after the 1st oild change was done after the engine rebuild. The oil change was done at Covert Ford Hutto. After I got the car back from the oil change I noticed the tick. Took it back to Covert Ford Hutto and they heard the noise and agreed to have me leave the car there for troubleshooting. They called me back after a weekend and told me Ford isn't going to approve anymore repairs on the engine. I disputed this through the BBB so Ford sent out an engineer who heard the noise but proceeded to tell me 'there's nothing wrong with the car'. I did some research and then called back Covert Ford and asked them if I could pay them to remove the A/C belt to see if the noise goes away. They said they had to run that by the Ford engineer. They did then called me back and said no they wouldn't do it because they feel there's nothing to fix. I proceeded to disengage from them and the BBB process. I called up the mechanic at Griffith Ford who had previously removed the belt as a troubleshooting step before he rebuilt my motor. I offered to pay Griffith Ford to remove the belt to see if the noise goes way and would potentially pay them for TSB 12-8-14. They called me back and reported that the noise did go away after removing the belt. I advised them to share the results with Ford. I think about 2 weeks went by then they came back and said Ford has no solution and that TSB 12-8-14 doesn't apply to the 2013 and 2014 car. So I thought to myself, 'how can it not apply? My 2014 car has the same stretchy belt that the 11 and 12 cars have'. So I advised Griffith Ford to install the tensioner and new belt. The noise is now solved, to this day.
11. Since replacing all of the above I started noticing a strange sensation coming from the rear. Kind of like how when live axles hop over bumps but to a very harsh extreme on this specific car. So I got to thinking to myself, the only thing left back there are shocks, springs and panhard bar. So I order a panhard bar since I wasn't ever concerned about the shocks or springs, replaced the panhard bar and resolved that issue.
12. Rear dif rebuilt again under customer pay - I found some more noise with it when I put the seat down when transporting the drive shaft I bought that one time mentioned above. I heard a pretty loud whining with the seat down, especially while decelerating from 10 miles per hour. Put the seat back up and was still able to hear it, but obviously harder to hear at that point. Rolled down the window and could also hear it against walls and such. The gear installer found that the backlash was at 12 thousandths and the pre-load was at 4 in. lbs. Ordered a gear install kit and new gears and they set the preload to 26 in. lbs. and backlash to 10 thousandths and rear differential noise is now within acceptable level ( you can hardly hear it now ). They also found browned clutches and replaced those along with excessive metal bits in the oil. They're thinking the reason for the browned clutches is because there was too much friction modifier installed. ( they're probably right because I had the rear diff serviced after Griffith Ford touch it and this solved an issue where the clutches were making the rear hop around during parking lot spot back outs ). The rear differential service fixed the hopping issue after some time of breaking in but unfortunately that service was possibly too late and that's why they found browned clutches.
Conclusions: I firmly believe that the significant slack from the rear passenger side lower control arm forward bushing caused significant stress and/or damage to the upper control arm, panhard bar, the drive shaft carrier, the transmission mount and ultimately the motor mounts. Remember, they're ALL CONNECTED to each other. I was thinking at first that it was just a severe manufacturing quality problem with all rubbers on the car but then I added it all up and thought to myself 'well, the OEM parts are designed to last and there doesn't seem to be a systemic issue with the parts so they must have been over-stressed from the rear lower control arm bushing that was bad. This is why I feel I'm right about this conclusion. I've had a few of these cars and didn't have to replaced any of these parts on those cars. I firmly feel to this day that something is bent within the power train/drive line as my drive shaft carrier is now currently toast again. Even more so than the original drive shaft. There's a horrible shaking feeling in the car right now but different so since the power train is so tight now, due to the new mounts.
In the end, Ford calculated a somewhat appropriate buy back number and I feel that they did this based off a potentially correct comprehension of my issue and trust in me as a technical minded customer. I appreciate the fact that they are reimbursing me for most of the money I've spent fixing the above items and buying the car back. I still have serious concerns over their warranty system but ultimately my issue as a whole is resolved. Thank you to my lemon lawyer, the BBB and the decision maker at Ford who obviously comprehended my issue correctly.
Current issues with the car:
-the drive shaft carrier went to mush again ( shaking came back ) Didn't have this issue with previous cars.
-the front passenger side strut is bad ( makes noise and fails the bounce test while the driver's side does not fail the bounce test )
-it has a severe bump steer problem. It will even bump steer at parking lot speeds over the very slightest of bumps. The BBB drove the car and agreed there was an issue. It drives horribly at the moment. I took the car to Christian Brothers and asked them to check the camber and toe during ride height changes. I have the numbers of the front end ride height changes below:
Pulling the car down ( I think they did 6 inches ) results in:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -1.3 at neg 6 inches ride height ( probably normal )
passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to -1.1 at neg 6 inches ( probably normal )
Total toe goes from .11 at base ride height to .02 at neg 6 inches ( I don't think this is normal but will reserve judgement for an expert )
Lifting the ride height by a mere 3/4's inch from it's base of 6 and a half inches results in the following changes:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -1.0 when raising the car by only 3/4's of an inch ( not so concerned with this )
Passanger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to -0.7 when raising the car by only 3/4's of an inch ( this to me indicates a strut or strut mount problem )
Total toe goes from .11 to .18 when raising ride height by 3/4's of an inch
By the time the ride height is changed by the special lift by 2 inches, we get the following readings:
Driver's side camber changes from -1.1 at base ride height to -0.1 when raising the car by 2 inches
Passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to +0.2 when raising the car by 2 inches
Total toe goes from .11 at base then to .46 at + 2 inches ride height. ( this is the bump steer I'm feeling in the car and will be worse depending on which wheel is hitting a bump )
The passenger side tire is showing horrendous outside cupping while the rest of that tire is ok.
The passenger side camber changes from -1.0 at base ride height to +0.2 when raising the car by 2 inches with the total toe change to me, confirms a bump steer problem. Probably made worse by a bad strut and strut mount on the passenger side as both the passenger side strut and strut mount are making noise. The drivers side ones aren't making any noise.
In closing, although this situation was very stressful, it was not my fault. I have grown in knowledge and experience from this issue as a whole and I'm somewhat glad it happened. I'm a better person because of it.
Thank you to everyone who has read my post and supported me with their words.
Last edited by jc46002003; 1/17/16 at 11:50 PM.
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Ralyn Barker (6/29/20)
1/17/16, 09:08 AM
#51
Legacy TMS Member
Jesus Christ. My car (2014 Track Pack GT) is currently at my local dealer for its second rear end rebuild. I don't have nearly as long as a saga as you did, but I feel like I'm going down that road.
Unlike you, I'm fine with replacing factory crap with better aftermarket parts, but this time Ford (corporate) made me remove all my aftermarket suspension so they could rule out any of that causing the noises and vibrations from the rear end. Obviously they didn't believe me when I said the noises were there before I added the aftermarket parts, which were my attempts to make sure the geometry was all within spec after I lowered it with H&R Supersport springs.
I'll keep an eye on this thread. I do love my car, but I won't go down that road. We have our second child due in March, so it's already selfish enough for me to keep this car with two babies. If it starts looking like this is going to be how things are with these 13-14s, I'll just trade it in. It's already on stock suspension anyways.
Unlike you, I'm fine with replacing factory crap with better aftermarket parts, but this time Ford (corporate) made me remove all my aftermarket suspension so they could rule out any of that causing the noises and vibrations from the rear end. Obviously they didn't believe me when I said the noises were there before I added the aftermarket parts, which were my attempts to make sure the geometry was all within spec after I lowered it with H&R Supersport springs.
I'll keep an eye on this thread. I do love my car, but I won't go down that road. We have our second child due in March, so it's already selfish enough for me to keep this car with two babies. If it starts looking like this is going to be how things are with these 13-14s, I'll just trade it in. It's already on stock suspension anyways.
1/17/16, 09:55 AM
#52
GT Member
Thread Starter
Jesus Christ. My car (2014 Track Pack GT) is currently at my local dealer for its second rear end rebuild. I don't have nearly as long as a saga as you did, but I feel like I'm going down that road.
Unlike you, I'm fine with replacing factory crap with better aftermarket parts, but this time Ford (corporate) made me remove all my aftermarket suspension so they could rule out any of that causing the noises and vibrations from the rear end. Obviously they didn't believe me when I said the noises were there before I added the aftermarket parts, which were my attempts to make sure the geometry was all within spec after I lowered it with H&R Supersport springs.
I'll keep an eye on this thread. I do love my car, but I won't go down that road. We have our second child due in March, so it's already selfish enough for me to keep this car with two babies. If it starts looking like this is going to be how things are with these 13-14s, I'll just trade it in. It's already on stock suspension anyways.
Unlike you, I'm fine with replacing factory crap with better aftermarket parts, but this time Ford (corporate) made me remove all my aftermarket suspension so they could rule out any of that causing the noises and vibrations from the rear end. Obviously they didn't believe me when I said the noises were there before I added the aftermarket parts, which were my attempts to make sure the geometry was all within spec after I lowered it with H&R Supersport springs.
I'll keep an eye on this thread. I do love my car, but I won't go down that road. We have our second child due in March, so it's already selfish enough for me to keep this car with two babies. If it starts looking like this is going to be how things are with these 13-14s, I'll just trade it in. It's already on stock suspension anyways.
Yea...those rear differential issues seems to be a frequent item. If your 2nd rebuild comes back with issues, I would recommend getting a different brand of gear and a different installer. Make the installer tell you the back lash and preload numbers so that they know you're watching. Make sure you use the Ford part numbers for the pinions bearings ( I learned a lesson there ).
I know what you mean about telling them 'the problem was there before X Y and Z'. I've been there and they didn't believe me either. I end up proving my issue every time. The Ford dealers seem to be nothing short of mentally disabled at this point. Ford example, with the rear lower control arms issue. Firestone did me an excellent service and found the issue then educated me on the problem while Ford wasn't even able to find the issue. See that? Is a complete reverse when you go to a Ford dealer. Firestone put the car on the lift and did the inspection for FREE!!! I wanted to pay them but they wouldn't let me. I was trying to find the issue for 8 months!!!
I don't feel that the design of the 2013 and 2014s is bad. I do believe Ford has a slight manufacturing quality problem however. In my case, I believe that the rear control arms created a cascading effect in the drive line and power train that does not normally happen.
Thanks again and I hope your repairs go well. If you have a dispute, get with the BBB. I had good results here with them.
Last edited by jc46002003; 1/17/16 at 12:34 PM.
1/17/16, 11:27 AM
#53
Legacy TMS Member
My local dealer rebuilt the rear end the first time, so it's all Ford parts. This will be their second attempt, though I know they are having different techs work on it this time.
It sort of worked out for me anyways, since I had a buddy get a 2014 GT also, so we just swapped over all our suspension (plus cash of course), as I have had an Air Lift kit waiting to go on the car since last September.
My car was there a week already with them trying to adjust the backlash and pinion angle to get the noise to go away, before the finally just decided to rebuild it again. They've had multiple hotlines open to Ford FSEs trying to figure it out. I planned on doing a CF driveshaft eventually too, so if this doesn't work out, I'll just take it to a performance shop and have the rear end rebuilt right, and buy all my BMR stuff again. It's funny I have 17k miles on my car, and have not had any issues with the front LCAs, nor the engine tick. I've only had 2 oil changes, and both with the Motorcraft 5W-50 synthetic blend, so I guess I'll keep it that way.
One thing to consider though, I swapped to high flow cats pretty early in the life of the car. Their diameter is probably 60-70% less than the stock cats, and since they flow more, I'm assuming they run cooler too - the front LCA bushings were getting cooked by the stock cats. I'm wondering if my high flow cats saved my stock LCA bushings...
I also don't have the metal shields on my LCAs, so they're not the updated parts.
It sort of worked out for me anyways, since I had a buddy get a 2014 GT also, so we just swapped over all our suspension (plus cash of course), as I have had an Air Lift kit waiting to go on the car since last September.
My car was there a week already with them trying to adjust the backlash and pinion angle to get the noise to go away, before the finally just decided to rebuild it again. They've had multiple hotlines open to Ford FSEs trying to figure it out. I planned on doing a CF driveshaft eventually too, so if this doesn't work out, I'll just take it to a performance shop and have the rear end rebuilt right, and buy all my BMR stuff again. It's funny I have 17k miles on my car, and have not had any issues with the front LCAs, nor the engine tick. I've only had 2 oil changes, and both with the Motorcraft 5W-50 synthetic blend, so I guess I'll keep it that way.
One thing to consider though, I swapped to high flow cats pretty early in the life of the car. Their diameter is probably 60-70% less than the stock cats, and since they flow more, I'm assuming they run cooler too - the front LCA bushings were getting cooked by the stock cats. I'm wondering if my high flow cats saved my stock LCA bushings...
I also don't have the metal shields on my LCAs, so they're not the updated parts.
1/17/16, 12:43 PM
#54
GT Member
Thread Starter
Sound like your dealer is trying to make it right, then.
You make an excellent observation about the cats. I knew that too but I never thought to put a different cat on there. I think you're correct that your high flow and smaller cats are preventing the issue with the control arms.
I actually think my first engine tic was from the stretchy belt. When Ford was troubleshooting it that first time and removed the belt, they may have found a different noise after the belt was removed. So I think they actually rebuilt the motor for a different noise. It is my strong assumption that the act of removing the original belt and putting it back on solved the actual tic. Then, when it got warmed up outside, the belt finally got back to a condition where it would make the noise. Hence, my decision to remove the belt and run the TSB. So what I'm assuming at this point is one could simply replace the noisy stretchy belt with a new stretchy belt and the noise would be solved for a short time or possibly indefinitely.
You make an excellent observation about the cats. I knew that too but I never thought to put a different cat on there. I think you're correct that your high flow and smaller cats are preventing the issue with the control arms.
I actually think my first engine tic was from the stretchy belt. When Ford was troubleshooting it that first time and removed the belt, they may have found a different noise after the belt was removed. So I think they actually rebuilt the motor for a different noise. It is my strong assumption that the act of removing the original belt and putting it back on solved the actual tic. Then, when it got warmed up outside, the belt finally got back to a condition where it would make the noise. Hence, my decision to remove the belt and run the TSB. So what I'm assuming at this point is one could simply replace the noisy stretchy belt with a new stretchy belt and the noise would be solved for a short time or possibly indefinitely.
Last edited by jc46002003; 1/17/16 at 01:27 PM.
1/18/16, 08:21 AM
#55
Bullitt Member
From what I have read, the noise from the stretchy belt is caused by the belt being too tight and causing a load on the crank which causes a knock. The TSB eliminates the stretchy belt and replaces it with a belt and tensioner which probably causes less of a load. A new stretchy belt may eliminate the problem if it is slightly larger and not causing as much of an eccentric load.
3/5/16, 07:15 PM
#56
GT Member
Thread Starter
Hey Everyone,
Just purchased a 2016 GT auto today. Had 5.4 miles on it when I bought it. Drove it off the lot, all was fine for about 100 miles till we stopped for a bio break. Got back in the car, felt a funny up shift from 1st to 2nd. Slowed down for 2-1 downshift and that felt funny as well. Got back on the highway and felt a bit of a vibration, very similar to what my 2014 drive shaft issue felt like. My dad felt the issue as well and in fact, he's the one that brought it up. I wasn't going to say anything and was going to t/s it on my own.
So I drove it around and for some reason put my hand on the emergency break and felt a tumbling/rumbling/knocking sensation. I know the center support for the drive shaft is near there.
I'm going to put it on a lift tomorrow and check it out. Suspecting the rubber is not right, or the bolts came loose. We'll see. I'll get back.
Just purchased a 2016 GT auto today. Had 5.4 miles on it when I bought it. Drove it off the lot, all was fine for about 100 miles till we stopped for a bio break. Got back in the car, felt a funny up shift from 1st to 2nd. Slowed down for 2-1 downshift and that felt funny as well. Got back on the highway and felt a bit of a vibration, very similar to what my 2014 drive shaft issue felt like. My dad felt the issue as well and in fact, he's the one that brought it up. I wasn't going to say anything and was going to t/s it on my own.
So I drove it around and for some reason put my hand on the emergency break and felt a tumbling/rumbling/knocking sensation. I know the center support for the drive shaft is near there.
I'm going to put it on a lift tomorrow and check it out. Suspecting the rubber is not right, or the bolts came loose. We'll see. I'll get back.
Last edited by jc46002003; 3/5/16 at 07:33 PM.
3/5/16, 07:44 PM
#58
GT Member
Thread Starter
they're 160 miles away. I'm just going to inspect it myself and get what I need on video. After that lemon I just turned in, they can come pick it up if they want to fix it.
3/6/16, 10:22 AM
#59
GT Member
Thread Starter
I got it on a lift and the drive shaft rubber is very soft. I'm like 99% it's the cause. I was in a hurry so didn't take a video but I plan to take the video for you all if/when I install a 1 pc drive shaft.
Last edited by jc46002003; 3/6/16 at 12:26 PM.
3/6/16, 12:43 PM
#60
GT Member
Thread Starter
Just reported my concern to the dealer. The sales person advised that he's going to push this up the ladder.
Guys, maybe I shouldn't buy a Mustang at this point? Is it too much to expect that I shouldn't have to fix new cars all the time?
Guys, maybe I shouldn't buy a Mustang at this point? Is it too much to expect that I shouldn't have to fix new cars all the time?