What Intake/Tune????
12/5/12, 01:59 PM
#62
Mach 1 Member
12/5/12, 03:01 PM
#63
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
12/7/12, 11:47 AM
#64
I think it's funny the amount of people that make blanket statments like "don't waste your money" or "they don't work"
But every fast N/A 5.0 runs one.
Adding an intake over and above a tune and your looking at 10-15 RWHP. Don't believe it? Test it on the dyno, it happens.
So what's 10-15 RWHP equate to at the track? .10 +/-
1) this is super hard to test and be consistant even though people have and proved it worked: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ts-inside.html
2) The tune has so much to do with getting power to the ground. If you don't run faster at all and your 60' times are the same, your tune is not right, period. It's pulling timing or closing throttle due to load differences
3) if you only gain .06-.10 is it worth $299? Yes, if the guy your racing beats you by that amount.
These are all BOLT ON N/A guys
First N/A 5.0 in the 9's (JPC) (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
First Boss in the 10's (Lethal) (stock 5.0 top to bottom w/nos)
Matt Desilva - 10.62 with a stick car (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
BMR- 2011 NMRA winner, 2012 runner up (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
2011 5.0 shootout winners using a JLT CAIN/A unlimited winner (Revolution auto) second (Evo) and third (Joe Marini)
N/A street winner (JJ Jones) and third (Pete Espeut)
Fastest stock tire winner (Dave London)
2012 5.0 shootout winners using JLT CAI (names omitted due to up coming article)
Naturally Aspirated street
Power adder street
Unlimited class Naturally Aspirated
Coyote swap class Naturally Aspirated
This is not just one or two examples, but it is a small fraction of fast cars using our intake.
So, when someone says Intakes don't work, you have to ask yourself why do all these racers use them?
Racers want to WIN, period. So they use everything they can to have an edge over the compitition. If they didn't work, they wouldn't use them.
NMRA Coyote stock opened up to use aftermarket intakes and guess what? All the racers jumped on it.
The internet is good for info, but the more research you do the better you will understand.
And the debate rolls on........
But every fast N/A 5.0 runs one.
Adding an intake over and above a tune and your looking at 10-15 RWHP. Don't believe it? Test it on the dyno, it happens.
So what's 10-15 RWHP equate to at the track? .10 +/-
1) this is super hard to test and be consistant even though people have and proved it worked: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ts-inside.html
2) The tune has so much to do with getting power to the ground. If you don't run faster at all and your 60' times are the same, your tune is not right, period. It's pulling timing or closing throttle due to load differences
3) if you only gain .06-.10 is it worth $299? Yes, if the guy your racing beats you by that amount.
These are all BOLT ON N/A guys
First N/A 5.0 in the 9's (JPC) (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
First Boss in the 10's (Lethal) (stock 5.0 top to bottom w/nos)
Matt Desilva - 10.62 with a stick car (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
BMR- 2011 NMRA winner, 2012 runner up (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
2011 5.0 shootout winners using a JLT CAIN/A unlimited winner (Revolution auto) second (Evo) and third (Joe Marini)
N/A street winner (JJ Jones) and third (Pete Espeut)
Fastest stock tire winner (Dave London)
2012 5.0 shootout winners using JLT CAI (names omitted due to up coming article)
Naturally Aspirated street
Power adder street
Unlimited class Naturally Aspirated
Coyote swap class Naturally Aspirated
This is not just one or two examples, but it is a small fraction of fast cars using our intake.
So, when someone says Intakes don't work, you have to ask yourself why do all these racers use them?
Racers want to WIN, period. So they use everything they can to have an edge over the compitition. If they didn't work, they wouldn't use them.NMRA Coyote stock opened up to use aftermarket intakes and guess what? All the racers jumped on it.
The internet is good for info, but the more research you do the better you will understand.
And the debate rolls on........
12/7/12, 06:04 PM
#66
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: March 20, 2011
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Originally Posted by Tucker
I think it's funny the amount of people that make blanket statments like "don't waste your money" or "they don't work"
But every fast N/A 5.0 runs one.
Adding an intake over and above a tune and your looking at 10-15 RWHP. Don't believe it? Test it on the dyno, it happens.
So what's 10-15 RWHP equate to at the track? .10 +/-
1) this is super hard to test and be consistant even though people have and proved it worked: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ts-inside.html
2) The tune has so much to do with getting power to the ground. If you don't run faster at all and your 60' times are the same, your tune is not right, period. It's pulling timing or closing throttle due to load differences
3) if you only gain .06-.10 is it worth $299? Yes, if the guy your racing beats you by that amount.
These are all BOLT ON N/A guys
First N/A 5.0 in the 9's (JPC) (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
First Boss in the 10's (Lethal) (stock 5.0 top to bottom w/nos)
Matt Desilva - 10.62 with a stick car (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
BMR- 2011 NMRA winner, 2012 runner up (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
2011 5.0 shootout winners using a JLT CAIN/A unlimited winner (Revolution auto) second (Evo) and third (Joe Marini)
N/A street winner (JJ Jones) and third (Pete Espeut)
Fastest stock tire winner (Dave London)
2012 5.0 shootout winners using JLT CAI (names omitted due to up coming article)
Naturally Aspirated street
Power adder street
Unlimited class Naturally Aspirated
Coyote swap class Naturally Aspirated
This is not just one or two examples, but it is a small fraction of fast cars using our intake.
So, when someone says Intakes don't work, you have to ask yourself why do all these racers use them? Racers want to WIN, period. So they use everything they can to have an edge over the compitition. If they didn't work, they wouldn't use them.
NMRA Coyote stock opened up to use aftermarket intakes and guess what? All the racers jumped on it.
The internet is good for info, but the more research you do the better you will understand.
And the debate rolls on........
But every fast N/A 5.0 runs one.
Adding an intake over and above a tune and your looking at 10-15 RWHP. Don't believe it? Test it on the dyno, it happens.
So what's 10-15 RWHP equate to at the track? .10 +/-
1) this is super hard to test and be consistant even though people have and proved it worked: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ts-inside.html
2) The tune has so much to do with getting power to the ground. If you don't run faster at all and your 60' times are the same, your tune is not right, period. It's pulling timing or closing throttle due to load differences
3) if you only gain .06-.10 is it worth $299? Yes, if the guy your racing beats you by that amount.
These are all BOLT ON N/A guys
First N/A 5.0 in the 9's (JPC) (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
First Boss in the 10's (Lethal) (stock 5.0 top to bottom w/nos)
Matt Desilva - 10.62 with a stick car (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
BMR- 2011 NMRA winner, 2012 runner up (stock 5.0 top to bottom)
2011 5.0 shootout winners using a JLT CAIN/A unlimited winner (Revolution auto) second (Evo) and third (Joe Marini)
N/A street winner (JJ Jones) and third (Pete Espeut)
Fastest stock tire winner (Dave London)
2012 5.0 shootout winners using JLT CAI (names omitted due to up coming article)
Naturally Aspirated street
Power adder street
Unlimited class Naturally Aspirated
Coyote swap class Naturally Aspirated
This is not just one or two examples, but it is a small fraction of fast cars using our intake.
So, when someone says Intakes don't work, you have to ask yourself why do all these racers use them?
Racers want to WIN, period. So they use everything they can to have an edge over the compitition. If they didn't work, they wouldn't use them.NMRA Coyote stock opened up to use aftermarket intakes and guess what? All the racers jumped on it.
The internet is good for info, but the more research you do the better you will understand.
And the debate rolls on........
12/10/12, 07:55 AM
#67
12/12/12, 07:32 AM
#68
Shelby GT350 Member
If those results are consistent, I'd change my tune (no pun intended) and agree that the CAI might infact be worth the money.
The data that I have seen for the past two years tells me that we shouldn't see this kind of improvement on the track but sometimes the data doesn't tell you the whole story!
Has anyone else run back to back with and without the CAI?
The data that I have seen for the past two years tells me that we shouldn't see this kind of improvement on the track but sometimes the data doesn't tell you the whole story!
Has anyone else run back to back with and without the CAI?
12/12/12, 08:01 AM
#69
How much more consistant does it need to be? All 5.0 shootout WINNERS in 3 years of the event used a CAI to win.
All the fastest 5.0's in the country use them, but we still think they don't work?
What "data" are you seeing? Internet people saying it doesn't work?
What kind of improvement are you looking for?
Heck, going to the track and testing a 10-15 RWHP part has way too many variables to do a consistant test.
It's all about adding up all parts and having a measurable gain in the end. Expecting a 10-15 hP part to make you faster in the 1/4 is expecting more than warrented.
Most stock and tuned 5.0s run 12's, some killer drivers run hihg 11's, but that's with suspension and weight reduction.
Intake and tune cars consistantly run in the 11's, heck I just gave 12 examples of intakes working on race cars, LOL
It's cool, I'm not here to change your mind, just educate and show facts.
All the fastest 5.0's in the country use them, but we still think they don't work?
What "data" are you seeing? Internet people saying it doesn't work?
What kind of improvement are you looking for?
Heck, going to the track and testing a 10-15 RWHP part has way too many variables to do a consistant test.
It's all about adding up all parts and having a measurable gain in the end. Expecting a 10-15 hP part to make you faster in the 1/4 is expecting more than warrented.
Most stock and tuned 5.0s run 12's, some killer drivers run hihg 11's, but that's with suspension and weight reduction.
Intake and tune cars consistantly run in the 11's, heck I just gave 12 examples of intakes working on race cars, LOL
It's cool, I'm not here to change your mind, just educate and show facts.
12/12/12, 07:36 PM
#70
Shelby GT350 Member
How much more consistant does it need to be? All 5.0 shootout WINNERS in 3 years of the event used a CAI to win.
All the fastest 5.0's in the country use them, but we still think they don't work?
What "data" are you seeing? Internet people saying it doesn't work?
What kind of improvement are you looking for?
Heck, going to the track and testing a 10-15 RWHP part has way too many variables to do a consistant test.
It's all about adding up all parts and having a measurable gain in the end. Expecting a 10-15 hP part to make you faster in the 1/4 is expecting more than warrented.
Most stock and tuned 5.0s run 12's, some killer drivers run hihg 11's, but that's with suspension and weight reduction.
Intake and tune cars consistantly run in the 11's, heck I just gave 12 examples of intakes working on race cars, LOL
It's cool, I'm not here to change your mind, just educate and show facts.
All the fastest 5.0's in the country use them, but we still think they don't work?
What "data" are you seeing? Internet people saying it doesn't work?
What kind of improvement are you looking for?
Heck, going to the track and testing a 10-15 RWHP part has way too many variables to do a consistant test.
It's all about adding up all parts and having a measurable gain in the end. Expecting a 10-15 hP part to make you faster in the 1/4 is expecting more than warrented.
Most stock and tuned 5.0s run 12's, some killer drivers run hihg 11's, but that's with suspension and weight reduction.
Intake and tune cars consistantly run in the 11's, heck I just gave 12 examples of intakes working on race cars, LOL
It's cool, I'm not here to change your mind, just educate and show facts.
These cars are also painted...so we can say with equal certainty that a winning car must have paint on it.
12/12/12, 07:46 PM
#71
Shelby GT350 Member
The fact is that a CAI is just a popular mod. People who want to go faster will typically install one because traditionally, this has been step #1...and because it's a simple install.
This list is commonly referenced and it's pretty complete. Many (most?) Mustangs have a CAI....some are running 12s, some are faster...and there are some in the 11s without one.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ack-times.html
This list is commonly referenced and it's pretty complete. Many (most?) Mustangs have a CAI....some are running 12s, some are faster...and there are some in the 11s without one.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ack-times.html
12/13/12, 05:58 AM
#73
The fact is that a CAI is just a popular mod. People who want to go faster will typically install one because traditionally, this has been step #1...and because it's a simple install.
This list is commonly referenced and it's pretty complete. Many (most?) Mustangs have a CAI....some are running 12s, some are faster...and there are some in the 11s without one.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ack-times.html
This list is commonly referenced and it's pretty complete. Many (most?) Mustangs have a CAI....some are running 12s, some are faster...and there are some in the 11s without one.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ack-times.html
The faster cars are doing everything they can to be faster and that includes a CAI.
Were not talking about a $600 part that gains 5HP, it's $299 and gains 10-15 everytime.
Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind, just give facts. How you use or believe them is up to you.
This is a 2013 stock vs custom tune vs JLT and custom tune. This is typical of the gains you would see doing these mods on the dyno.
Intakes don't control how a car runs and the don't make power on the dyno and not on the street.
That plastic box you plug in your computer that controls thousands of functions does.
12/13/12, 04:09 PM
#74
Mach 1 Member
I have yet to see any well-designed or -controlled comparison of the effects of any CAI, tune or CAI/tune combo that rises above the level of testimony; most wallow in the swamp of opinion masquerading as fact. Such aspects as order of introduction of controlled variables tested are just plain ignored. "Your results may vary" is too, too true.
The most dangerous of all falsehoods is
a slightly distorted truth.
-Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, scientist and philosopher (1742-1799)
PS: In case no one has been able to find it, look at about 4:40 et seq.
Last edited by frank s; 12/13/12 at 04:23 PM. Reason: P.S.:
12/14/12, 05:45 AM
#75
Sorry, I take great offence to your comments.
Calling me a lier is crossing the line. We take great pride in our testing and being truthful.
Don't believe me? Prove me wrong, but don't call me a lier!
There are dyno shops all over the country and these tests are easily done. We would be a fool to make up numbers.
Wow, that was uncalled for!
Calling me a lier is crossing the line. We take great pride in our testing and being truthful.
Don't believe me? Prove me wrong, but don't call me a lier!
There are dyno shops all over the country and these tests are easily done. We would be a fool to make up numbers.
Wow, that was uncalled for!
12/14/12, 06:11 AM
#76
I have been told (and this is a fact) a good dyno operator can make a graph showing anything he wants to claim for a set of dyno runs. Even if he's not consciously trying to do it, he might be producing "facts" that match the expectations of whoever is paying for his services. That, in addition to the difficulty in reproducing exact conditions for each pull in a series, and the fact that the experimental design might be faulty, let alone the execution, mean the "consumer" has to take every claim with a large measure of salt.
I have yet to see any well-designed or -controlled comparison of the effects of any CAI, tune or CAI/tune combo that rises above the level of testimony; most wallow in the swamp of opinion masquerading as fact. Such aspects as order of introduction of controlled variables tested are just plain ignored. "Your results may vary" is too, too true.
The most dangerous of all falsehoods is
a slightly distorted truth.
-Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, scientist and philosopher (1742-1799)
PS: In case no one has been able to find it, look at about 4:40 et seq.
I have yet to see any well-designed or -controlled comparison of the effects of any CAI, tune or CAI/tune combo that rises above the level of testimony; most wallow in the swamp of opinion masquerading as fact. Such aspects as order of introduction of controlled variables tested are just plain ignored. "Your results may vary" is too, too true.
The most dangerous of all falsehoods is
a slightly distorted truth.
-Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, scientist and philosopher (1742-1799)
PS: In case no one has been able to find it, look at about 4:40 et seq.
LOL, Jay, it looks like we have a conspiracy theorist here.
You blantatly just called someone a lier man, JLT didn't become one of the top CAI companies in the Mustang community by lieing....
12/14/12, 08:13 AM
#77
Shelby GT350 Member
Kind of proving my point with the list.
The faster cars are doing everything they can to be faster and that includes a CAI.
Were not talking about a $600 part that gains 5HP, it's $299 and gains 10-15 everytime.
Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind, just give facts. How you use or believe them is up to you.
This is a 2013 stock vs custom tune vs JLT and custom tune. This is typical of the gains you would see doing these mods on the dyno.
The faster cars are doing everything they can to be faster and that includes a CAI.
Were not talking about a $600 part that gains 5HP, it's $299 and gains 10-15 everytime.
Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind, just give facts. How you use or believe them is up to you.
This is a 2013 stock vs custom tune vs JLT and custom tune. This is typical of the gains you would see doing these mods on the dyno.
Correlation does not equal causation.
I'm open to the idea that the CAI might be worth the money... I'd like some more indepenent evidence before my mind is changed though.
As far as I can tell, Frank S was NOT calling anyone a liar. His point is valid- that dynos are not infallible and when a chart is presented by someone with a financial interest in a certain outcome, we should be skeptical.
...also Tucker and Jay, as a vendor you guys might want to watch your tone while representing your companies. You're shooting yourselves in the foot!
Last edited by MRGTX; 12/14/12 at 08:15 AM.
12/14/12, 08:34 AM
#79
Shelby GT350 Member
CAI do make power on the dyno. My stock '11 auto was 354. Added tune 369. Added Airaid minus insert 381. There are many guys who can vouch that the CAI makes power on the dyno. That is no argument but how much does it transfer to the track? I did not find much of a gain. Did back to back runs with tune only 12.53 @ 113 1.95 '60. Put on Airaid did 12.51 @ 113 1.95 '60. Worth the money?
12/14/12, 08:40 AM
#80
Shelby GT350 Member