SCT or InTune
2/4/13, 04:14 PM
#41
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I had the exact same thing happen to my car. I bought it used with no aftermarket parts on the car at all when it happened. It turned out that it did have a ford racing tune in it (I found that out because the strategy number wasn't recognized by SCT or diablosport). So I fought the dealer and they fixed it under warranty (which took 2 months) after I got the car back, I put it on our dyno and saw that the air fuel ratio was almost 14:1! I then had the computer flashed back to stock and had my shop, late model Racecraft, put a custom dyno tune in my car and now my air fuel is at 12:1. Much safer.
I got sick of it. Towed my car home and ordered an alluminator. If my local dealership wasn't such useless ******** I maybe could have continued perusing it through another dealership. But they ran the ecu codes then immediately filed to void my warranty. I was advised to get a lawyer. The lawyer said I had a valid case but his fees were out insane. And my car would have sat for another 6 months. So I just counted my losses and stepped up to buy a new motor. I hope Lumberton Ford burns to the ****ing ground. Nothing but a bunch of crooks. This wasn't my first bad experience with them. I had them do a valve seal job on my mach1 a couple years ago. They had my car for 2 months just to do a day and a half worth of labor. I was told the service department was under new management so I gave them another chance. They pulled the ecu codes first thing then voided my warranty with out even pulling the plugs out, checking compression, really no diagnosis. It could have been there for a broke headlight and they wouldn't have known any different. Found out they have been screwy with allot of people.
2/4/13, 04:31 PM
#42
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It was the tune's fault. We've seen plenty of pictures from tunes running too lean causing the piston to fail - particularly in the ring lands. Allegedly some of the early tunes also ignored the knock sensors. Hence Bama started their Tune Warranty - whereas Brenspeed let their customers eat it.
Hence Ford made changes to the piston with coatings and a different oil ring setup - thereby eliminating the need for the oil squirters on the 13.
I would never buy a used 2011 or 2012 5.0 with the original pistons since I don't know if its been tuned safely before or not.
Do a search - plenty of info available.
Last edited by Kris Warwick; 2/4/13 at 04:34 PM.
2/4/13, 04:31 PM
#43
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I got sick of it. Towed my car home and ordered an alluminator. If my local dealership wasn't such useless ******** I maybe could have continued perusing it through another dealership. But they ran the ecu codes then immediately filed to void my warranty. I was advised to get a lawyer. The lawyer said I had a valid case but his fees were out insane. And my car would have sat for another 6 months. So I just counted my losses and stepped up to buy a new motor. I hope Lumberton Ford burns to the ****ing ground. Nothing but a bunch of crooks. This wasn't my first bad experience with them. I had them do a valve seal job on my mach1 a couple years ago. They had my car for 2 months just to do a day and a half worth of labor. I was told the service department was under new management so I gave them another chance. They pulled the ecu codes first thing then voided my warranty with out even pulling the plugs out, checking compression, really no diagnosis. It could have been there for a broke headlight and they wouldn't have known any different. Found out they have been screwy with allot of people.
2/4/13, 04:34 PM
#44
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It was the tune's fault. We've seen plenty of pictures from tunes running too lean then detonation causing the piston to fail - particularly in the ring lands. Allegedly some of the early tunes also ignored the knock sensors. Hence Bama started their Tune Warranty - whereas Brenspeed let their customers eat it.
Hence Ford made changes to the piston with coatings and a different oil ring setup - thereby eliminating the need for the oil squirters on the 13.
I would never buy a used 2011 or 2012 5.0 with the original pistons since I don't know if its been tuned safely before or not.
Do a search - plenty of info available. We've been through this numerous times on TMS.
Hence Ford made changes to the piston with coatings and a different oil ring setup - thereby eliminating the need for the oil squirters on the 13.
I would never buy a used 2011 or 2012 5.0 with the original pistons since I don't know if its been tuned safely before or not.
Do a search - plenty of info available. We've been through this numerous times on TMS.
2/4/13, 04:38 PM
#45
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I bought the car with what I was told was a BBR street tune. The dealership said the handheld was stolen from them so I never had a way to verify. But the car had a BBR sticker on it. Only mod was a JLT intake so logic denotes that it must have been a BBR tune. But I don't feel it was Chris's fault. I did at first untill I borescoped it and saw the issue wasn't the pistion face.
Last edited by Kris Warwick; 2/4/13 at 04:52 PM.
2/4/13, 04:47 PM
#46
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The ring land failure is only a matter of time/miles for most 11/12. The tunes are safe. 99% of them now. Best advice I can give is run some sort of oil additive like Lucas or run a sticker oil. Something that will film to the walls longer will help promote linger ring life and cooler temps. The super aggressive tunes will crack the pistion face or just blow the **** thing in half. I would trust a Steeda tune in any coyote. I just dont trust the 11/12 pistion designs. FORD changed them for a reason and that reason was certainly had nothing to do with aftermarket tunes.
Last edited by Kris Warwick; 2/4/13 at 04:51 PM.
2/4/13, 05:25 PM
#47
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The ring land failure is only a matter of time/miles for most 11/12. The tunes are safe. 99% of them now. Best advice I can give is run some sort of oil additive like Lucas or run a sticker oil. Something that will film to the walls longer will help promote linger ring life and cooler temps. The super aggressive tunes will crack the pistion face or just blow the **** thing in half. I would trust a Steeda tune in any coyote. I just dont trust the 11/12 pistion designs. FORD changed them for a reason and that reason was certainly had nothing to do with aftermarket tunes.
2/4/13, 05:35 PM
#48
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And you can blame Ford all you want but their policy has been clear for years - and they issued TSB 11-7-7 as a reminder.
2/4/13, 06:14 PM
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sticky was a poor choive of words, the higher Viscosity rating the better the oil will stay together and not thin out at operating temp i was on my phone and couldn't remember the word. sorry. Ive run lucas oil additive for year and we run it in every one of our company f250s. my f150 had 400k on the 5.4 when i sold it and my f250 5.4 has 330k on the with no motor issues besides having to replace a few coils and plugs over the years. i dont know what kind of car or motor you lost but ford pick-up and oil pumps seems to do just fine with it in my experience. but im not trying to sell lucas products. just run a 10w or a heaver sae oil. unless you live some where real real freakin cold. at the same time you may never have an issue. most people that will with be weekend warriors that are thrashing there cars at the tack. the most degradation is going to happen at high rpm when the motor is real hot. be modest and enjoy the car ti should last 100k. i dont see the 11/12 coyotes as having the 250k reliability that the 4.6s had. but they are pushed a hell of allot harder.
2/4/13, 06:29 PM
#53
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By far the largest number of reported piston failures on the 11/12 was #8 - not the first time that hole has been an issue over the years by numerous engines because of the heat factor. That the hot side (exhaust) failed makes perfect sense - because like you say detonation doesn't occur on one side of the piston. But if the original design was near its limits under a lean condition (from an aggressive non-stock tune) - then the hottest part of the lands would be subject to failure. As we have seen in numerous tuned 2011/2012 5.0's.
And you can blame Ford all you want but their policy has been clear for years - and they issued TSB 11-7-7 as a reminder.
And you can blame Ford all you want but their policy has been clear for years - and they issued TSB 11-7-7 as a reminder.
this is a design flaw not a tuning issue. again my piston face was clean. if the piston face inst pitted, no yellow or white calcium build up. it was not from detonation. the face looked almost new besides the evidence of scratches on the edge of corwn from it grinding against the sleeve.
2/4/13, 07:33 PM
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ohhh...a meme. it must be true.
FORD did not change the pistons rings and coatings to suit the aftermarket. the changes happened because FORD has an issue with them failing. Many have been replaced by warranty with the ring land failure. that piston shows no sign of heat welding or calcium deposits from detonation: part failure. Most people that have lost ring lands have done it at idle. bad tunes blow the entire piston out, at revs when the motor is screaming leaning on fuel and the timing doesn't retard properly most likely from an over aggressive tune or a knock sensor not hearing it due to the tuner ****ing with it.
FORD did not change the pistons rings and coatings to suit the aftermarket. the changes happened because FORD has an issue with them failing. Many have been replaced by warranty with the ring land failure. that piston shows no sign of heat welding or calcium deposits from detonation: part failure. Most people that have lost ring lands have done it at idle. bad tunes blow the entire piston out, at revs when the motor is screaming leaning on fuel and the timing doesn't retard properly most likely from an over aggressive tune or a knock sensor not hearing it due to the tuner ****ing with it.