RTD

http://fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22639



Big discussion here:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79673

Overboost

Calling those who claimed the 420hp bump was purely a tune or no improvement at all...

MARZ

Hmm, it appears as though internal changes WERE, in fact, made; it wasn't merely "marketing hype" as some claimed it was. One person even stated they knew "for a fact" no changes were made.

The new piston appears to feature some kind of coating. There's an additional groove in between the first and second compression ring grooves. Does the new piston have more oil drain holes, too?

cdynaco

flySWA737

I still don't see where it's official that the squirters are gone. All I've seen through that thread is that the piston has been redesigned. Interesting, but expected. Make the coyote stronger and stronger.

MARZ

From the Ford Racing site linked above:

• 2013 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V TiVCT production aluminum block
  
• Low pressure cast 319 aluminum
  
• Pressed-in thin-wall iron liners
  
• 92.2 mm bore size
  
• Cross-bolted nodular iron main bearing caps
  
• Thicker main webs for added strength
  
• Block features 11mm cylinder head bolts (2011-2012 engine builds using this block will require 11 mm head bolts)
  
• Block has no provisions for 2011-2012 engine oil squirters
  
• Includes dowels and plugs

They're gone, man.

flySWA737

Thanks for clarifying that. Maybe they realized they don't really do much for longitivtiy. Interesting though.

EDIT: Wow I cant believe I overlooked the link to the Ford Racing Parts site.

MARZ

Don't sweat it, bro. I actually missed the link to the Ford Racing site at first, too.

flySWA737

I apologize for the rant in advance...

I dared to look on allfordmustangs.com at their reactions to this latest find and I realized something. Nowadays I would really hate to be an engineer on a project such as the powertrain for these cars.

All your work is scrutinized and criticized when its not 100% perfect all the time, and even when you look back over your work and revise parts to make it better, you still get criticized and you become the source of some big conspiracy of big business out to destroy the consumer. Well to those Coyote engineers, thank you for giving us such an amazing engine giving us 400+ HP in such a small package from the factory. Your work is greatly appreciated.

These guys on these forums now talk about how this was a rushed project but nobody looks at this from another point of view. These engineers dedicated lots of time and stress to do this in such a short time frame for mass production. All I can think of is how demoralizing this all is to see all your dedication to the Mustang get ripped apart by so many childish remarks.

Again sorry for the rant, it just got to me. (I shouldn't really let it )

Overboost

Most of the people who choose to complain are "experts". They don't understand the resources or challenges associated with the programs that the OEMs put together and have to develop in truncated time frames. With enough time and money, anything's possible. I'd love to see the "experts" band together and do what Ford and others have done.

In short, I agree with you. Well said! Being in the industry, it really boggles my mind that what I used to "know" pales in comparison to what I know now.

97GT12

I found AFM to be rather hostile to engineering and product development realities. Hence why I don't go there much any more.

On another note these changes to the piston may or may not improve hp. The reasons could be varied. They could be to deal everything from field failures and manufacturing reasons to increased hp to on going product improvement or all of the above.

Unless someone from ford in the know tells us, it is just conjecture on our part.

RTD

I agree. In fact, for people planning on going FI I think deleting the squirters is a mistake.

MRGTX

With each subsequent revision, the possibility of a future crate engine purchase becomes more and more appealing.

Tony Alonso

True, except technically they are not legal for use in pollution-controlled vehicle as per Ford Racing's warranty information. Perhaps someone has a solution for managing the ECM programming as a part of this swap.

I'd love to swap a 5.0 into my 2010, but that would be harder with EPAS and other detail changes that would have to be made, in addition to the ECM stuff.

JTLENG

Hello everyone,
Been a member here for a long time but haven't posted much,

Thanks for posting the pictures of the piston differences,

Couple questions,
1- Looks like the material is different between the two, is the new one forged?
2- Could the changes have been made because of some piston failures we've seen?
3- I heard these changes actually started on the last of the 2012 models, is that true?

Looking we're the changes were made is exactly were I've seen pictures of piston failures with the 5.0.

Sorry if the questions were stupid but just curious.

flySWA737

If the piston design was bad we would hear of random piston failures. Piston 8 failures (from what I understand) was from bad tuning due to knock sensors being disabled causing detonation. The random engine failures I hear of that are always "very" vague are probably just manufacturing defects which always happen.

No question is stupid. I actually think its very cool to see how engineering progresses and improves through each revision.

dleblancbu

This thread and subsequent replies has been not only interesting, but well done by all of you. No childlike replies, very informative, and you (we) are to be complemented by our intellegence. Thank you.

MRGTX

Oh, you missed childish cdynaco's moment of schadenfreude?
Based on past posts, it's pretty easy to imagine what he meant here:

99mstng

1-not forged, different heat treatment/coating
2-my guess is yes, Ford saw a design flaw and corrected (at least they hope they did)
3-Has not been confirmed - piston part #'s didn't change until 2013 production began.

99mstng

I think heat and piston design combined lead to the issues we saw. The #8 tends to run the hottest so if one piston is going to go that is usually the first.

It will be interesting to see what if any issues the 2013's will have and how well they will react to a tune/boost vs. the 11-12's.