MRGTX

So with the 2011-2014 style Coyotes no longer being produced and the cost/legality of a 2015+ style ECU swap presumably prohibitive, having our existing motors built is likely going to become increasingly important for those of us who plan to stick with out S197s.

So if you're going this route and want to unlock the potential for "big" power, where should efforts be focused?

oil pump- this seems to be step #1
crank?
rods?
pistons?
port/polish?

Any opinions and insight are welcome!

Blown CS

The crank is forged so its good. I think once you get into 600hp, its time for OPG. Once youre pushing 700hp, then its time rods and pistons. If you plan to push it any more, youll need a sleeved block and fuel system.

ford20

Define "big" power haha. For me, I can guarantee that it is probably different than most peoples when it comes to these cars. I just listed some things I could think of off the top of my head and where I would get them from.

Oil pump gears (from TSS)
Crank Sprocket (from MPR engines)
Fuel System (From JPC 2400HP Capable with Xtreme fuel rails)
Sleeved block (Darton Sleeves from JPC would be my choice)
Forged Internals (Diamond Pistons Oliver or Mahle Rods from JPC)
Built Transmission (Depends on what you want to do here, TH400 swap maybe)

Then again it all depends on how far you want to go power wise. Is like 700 and change good for you and calling it a day or are you talking like I'm thinking 1200+

MRGTX

Thanks, guys.
When I say "big power" I'm thinking along the lines of what the Boss 302 "Roadrunner" and the 2015+ motors can do.

IIRC, we run into trouble with the pistons/connecting rods first, no?

ford20

Oh yeah, the rods are the weakest point. If I was to build a motor to hold 800HP or so forged rotating assembly, billet OPG, billet crank sprocket and you should be ok at that level without having to sleeve the block.

5.M0NSTER

What about just getting to 500hp? My '14 motor came with 420 at the crank, and I'd like to get it close to ~500 at some point. This means headers, intake, tune. I'm not planning on pushing the redline past 7100rpm.

Do you think I need to worry about oil pump gears or rods?

MKMotorsport

Probably overkill. OPG's is more for F/I, guys who shift stick extremely aggressively, and or rev limiter removed, regular 7500+ rpm operation.

500 is not even close to "big power", that definition is pretty subjective. I consider "big power" 4 digits on up. A more sane answer is probably nearing 700 or so hp, I'd be worried about OPG's. Sure people do it at lower power levels to feel good...If you really plan on limiting yourself to 500hp/7100 rpm, you are probably wasting your time/money better spent ALOT of other places.

Realistically you can't just "swap" rods. At that point motor is at a machine shop getting re-built anyway.

my .02...

MRGTX

Great info!!
Thank you, MKMotorsport.

ford20

I would still do the OPG's at the same time. You have to remove the timing chains anyway to get to 500HP so you might as well just swap them out. It really isn't even the power or the RPM that is killing the gears as power and RPM aren't putting a force on the gear. The gear has no idea how much power you are making, it is just spinning regardless if you are making 412HP or if you are making 1400HP.

It is the jerk and sudden shock to the system that will put a force on the gear and break. Lets say for example when you hit the hard limiter on the car, it is the sudden acceleration and deceleration that will cause this jerk to happen and can crack the gears. If I am literally 4 bolts away from removing the oil pump, guess what, it is coming out. Sure, you can spend the $300 or $350 on a CAI for a CJ setup, but I would rather spend the money on something that isn't going to cause my $8000+ motor to fail rather then buy an intake.

5.M0NSTER

Sean, I'm a bit confused. Why do you have to remove timing chains to get to 500hp at the crank? Isn't this moderately easy to achieve with CIA, tune and LT Headers?

ford20

At the crank? Hmmm you might, I don't really know power figures at the crank, but that would seem like a realistic way to get close to that amount 420-440HP or so at the wheels.

I was thinking you were talking about RWHP which would require you to go cams, my mistake.

Stage_3

Interesting thread! Great read.
I love my S195,......but for big power, I'll just buy a S550 or Hellcat. Or the new GT500, IF it comes out. Or supercharge a GT350R. Or,......
Obviously, it is way cheaper to just build the existing cars we have then financing a new car and then building that one up. That may be the route I may have to go as well someday. Can't predict the future.
Good luck!

5.M0NSTER

Ah, now I got you. Yeah, basically looking for 80 more at the wheels. Intake + tune is supposed to be good got 1/2 that or so. I figure it can't be too difficult to get the other half or close to it.

ford20

I don't think it would be too difficult. You are going to need the Boss intake though. I thought I saw that in you list before hand, but with that, the long tubes, intake and tune I can see it in the 430-440 range and then even more if you add E85 into the mix.

5.M0NSTER

Thanks Sean. The issue I have with the Boss intake manifold is that to really get the gains out of you it, you have to spin the Coyote past 7100 rpm (stock Roadrunner redline is 7400 I think) vs. Coyote's 6800. I'm afraid to push it that high on stock internals, 7100 or so is the max I'm comfortable with. And at 7100rpm I feel like you're not even getting into the sweet spot of the Boss intake manifold.

Do you think I'm overly cautious? I track my car, so there are a few days per year it sees 2 hours/day of 4000-6800 RPM operation for 20 to 30 minutes each time. Durability is a huge concern for me.