Brake Rotor/Pad Replacement...
4/6/13, 11:20 AM
#21
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That was my huge mistake. Turned off car, then a bit later I started her back up and went back out forgetting to engage SPORT MODE or turn off any other driver aids. I may have to get those sensors back there checked out, too. Dash lights lit up like a Christmas tree! I'm wondering if the Wavetrac torque biasing rear diff added to the equation...
4/6/13, 11:43 AM
#22
There is no reason to run a bigger brake rotor in the rear of the car, it really is pointless. Unless you track your car full time, run 15 minute or longer sessions than yeah, maybe. However, getting a bigger rotor while running the same caliper will not affect brake bias.
Look at Hawk HPS pads if your car is a DD and DOT 4 fluid. If you want to run a different rotor because the ones you have are shot, get OEM, its cheap. With the money you save get stainless lines and cooling ducts.
Look at Hawk HPS pads if your car is a DD and DOT 4 fluid. If you want to run a different rotor because the ones you have are shot, get OEM, its cheap. With the money you save get stainless lines and cooling ducts.
Long story short... need new rotors and pads due to accidentally leaving ADVANCETRAC fully engaged during extended spirited driving stint("SERVICE ADVANCETRAC/ABS/TC OFF" lights all came on!). The main problem is from the rear driver-side rotor/pads. Sounds like the pads are fried and rotor is warped back there. The front set-up seems just fine.
I'm looking for good quality rotor and pad replacements for the street, primarily. How are Hawk HPS, Carbotech Bobcat 1521's, PFC Z-Rated, Porterfield R4-S, etc.? DBA 5000/4000 Series rotors? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
'Originally Posted by steveespo
Left rear seems to be the wheel that stability control uses the brake on most to control wheel spin and yaw. If you drive the car hard with TC on you will use up that brake. Discovered this when I was road racing and keeping Advance Track on as a safety net. Left rear would always be red hot.
Steve'
I'm looking for good quality rotor and pad replacements for the street, primarily. How are Hawk HPS, Carbotech Bobcat 1521's, PFC Z-Rated, Porterfield R4-S, etc.? DBA 5000/4000 Series rotors? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
'Originally Posted by steveespo
Left rear seems to be the wheel that stability control uses the brake on most to control wheel spin and yaw. If you drive the car hard with TC on you will use up that brake. Discovered this when I was road racing and keeping Advance Track on as a safety net. Left rear would always be red hot.
Steve'
4/6/13, 03:01 PM
#23
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This is Bruces(from FTBR) reply to my post about the 14" rotors:
"In my honest opinion a 14" rear kit 'may possibly' supply a bit too much rear brake bias on the vehicle. I was going to build a kit and test a 14" rear kit on my car but I've been a bit busy lately. It may get done at some point, I'm just not sure.
Depending on front and rear brake pad choices a 14" rear kit could easily upset the braking on the car which would never be a good idea.
The '13-'14 has a 14" kit on the rear but they have a 15" diameter rotor with a six pot caliper on the front. Big difference."
Also, Terry from Vorshlag runs the Brembo rear rotors for some reason.
And finally, most people that track their cars have a softer compound pad on the rear vs. the front. i.e xp-10 front and xp-8 rear
Hope this helps. You got such a nice car, might as well do it right.
"In my honest opinion a 14" rear kit 'may possibly' supply a bit too much rear brake bias on the vehicle. I was going to build a kit and test a 14" rear kit on my car but I've been a bit busy lately. It may get done at some point, I'm just not sure.
Depending on front and rear brake pad choices a 14" rear kit could easily upset the braking on the car which would never be a good idea.
The '13-'14 has a 14" kit on the rear but they have a 15" diameter rotor with a six pot caliper on the front. Big difference."
Also, Terry from Vorshlag runs the Brembo rear rotors for some reason.
And finally, most people that track their cars have a softer compound pad on the rear vs. the front. i.e xp-10 front and xp-8 rear
Hope this helps. You got such a nice car, might as well do it right.
4/7/13, 11:39 AM
#24
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This is Bruces(from FTBR) reply to my post about the 14" rotors:
"In my honest opinion a 14" rear kit 'may possibly' supply a bit too much rear brake bias on the vehicle. I was going to build a kit and test a 14" rear kit on my car but I've been a bit busy lately. It may get done at some point, I'm just not sure.
Depending on front and rear brake pad choices a 14" rear kit could easily upset the braking on the car which would never be a good idea.
The '13-'14 has a 14" kit on the rear but they have a 15" diameter rotor with a six pot caliper on the front. Big difference."
Also, Terry from Vorshlag runs the Brembo rear rotors for some reason.
And finally, most people that track their cars have a softer compound pad on the rear vs. the front. i.e xp-10 front and xp-8 rear
Hope this helps. You got such a nice car, might as well do it right.
"In my honest opinion a 14" rear kit 'may possibly' supply a bit too much rear brake bias on the vehicle. I was going to build a kit and test a 14" rear kit on my car but I've been a bit busy lately. It may get done at some point, I'm just not sure.
Depending on front and rear brake pad choices a 14" rear kit could easily upset the braking on the car which would never be a good idea.
The '13-'14 has a 14" kit on the rear but they have a 15" diameter rotor with a six pot caliper on the front. Big difference."
Also, Terry from Vorshlag runs the Brembo rear rotors for some reason.
And finally, most people that track their cars have a softer compound pad on the rear vs. the front. i.e xp-10 front and xp-8 rear
Hope this helps. You got such a nice car, might as well do it right.
Another question is, will my car being "tuned" be an issue with Ford's diagnostic of the ADVANCETRAC System? Do they have to flash the PCM? It would be a huge pain to remove the CAI and return PCM back to stock.
4/7/13, 12:04 PM
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There is no reason to run a bigger brake rotor in the rear of the car, it really is pointless. Unless you track your car full time, run 15 minute or longer sessions than yeah, maybe. However, getting a bigger rotor while running the same caliper will not affect brake bias.
Look at Hawk HPS pads if your car is a DD and DOT 4 fluid. If you want to run a different rotor because the ones you have are shot, get OEM, its cheap. With the money you save get stainless lines and cooling ducts.
Look at Hawk HPS pads if your car is a DD and DOT 4 fluid. If you want to run a different rotor because the ones you have are shot, get OEM, its cheap. With the money you save get stainless lines and cooling ducts.
I already have cooling ducts, but went with the Boss 302 low-compressibility rubber lines instead of a set of stainless braided brake lines. I'll look into getting better brake lines and DOT 4 brake fluid real soon.
4/7/13, 01:31 PM
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Thanks... I will say that the OEM parts weren't that cheap, specifically for the front rotors(had to be special ordered) for the "Brembo Brake Package" set-up. OEM front pads weren't cheap, either.
I already have cooling ducts, but went with the Boss 302 low-compressibility rubber lines instead of a set of stainless braided brake lines. I'll look into getting better brake lines and DOT 4 brake fluid real soon.
I already have cooling ducts, but went with the Boss 302 low-compressibility rubber lines instead of a set of stainless braided brake lines. I'll look into getting better brake lines and DOT 4 brake fluid real soon.
4/7/13, 02:10 PM
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Fair enough... This helps a ton. I will be dropping off car for service as early as tomorrow afternoon to fix the ADVANCETRAC/ABS/TRACTION CONTROL problem. I'm almost sure that they will have to replace the rear caliper/rotor set-up... it's seized up or something. I'm also sure that they are allowed to replace parts with OEM components, only. I'll look into aftermarket pieces immediately after this issue is rectified.
Another question is, will my car being "tuned" be an issue with Ford's diagnostic of the ADVANCETRAC System? Do they have to flash the PCM? It would be a huge pain to remove the CAI and return PCM back to stock.
Another question is, will my car being "tuned" be an issue with Ford's diagnostic of the ADVANCETRAC System? Do they have to flash the PCM? It would be a huge pain to remove the CAI and return PCM back to stock.
4/7/13, 02:16 PM
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This is very interesting... I'm going to take a closer look at this.
I'll gladly sacrifice a little extra rotating mass if this can handle more abuse due to wheel-spin/yaw control sensing loads. How can this disrupt the brake bias? I thought I may have already adversely affected brake bias by lowering the car(change in suspension geometry/weight transfer... less brake dive...). I'm not sure, but it seems as if the rear brakes are working more now than in stock form.
I'll look into seeing what Brembo has to offer in rotor sizes. A softer rear pad? I may need an example. Thanks.
I'll gladly sacrifice a little extra rotating mass if this can handle more abuse due to wheel-spin/yaw control sensing loads. How can this disrupt the brake bias? I thought I may have already adversely affected brake bias by lowering the car(change in suspension geometry/weight transfer... less brake dive...). I'm not sure, but it seems as if the rear brakes are working more now than in stock form.
I'll look into seeing what Brembo has to offer in rotor sizes. A softer rear pad? I may need an example. Thanks.
Or if your a baller check out ftbr's website. 13" rotors for 1k.
4/7/13, 04:26 PM
#29
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I dont see wht they would have to flash your cpu, but if they did you would be screwed. Is it that hard to remove a cai? If you want a free set of brakes, might as well remove it. Or pony up for the upgraded parts and do it your self, there are 2 15mm bolts and your done. But you do need the caliper speaders from any parts store(you could rent em).
http://www.lethalperformance.com/bre...ed-rotors.html
Or if your a baller check out ftbr's website. 13" rotors for 1k.
Or if your a baller check out ftbr's website. 13" rotors for 1k.
Last edited by J Tennu; 4/7/13 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Correction
4/7/13, 10:28 PM
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I originally purchased new OEM rotors to be installed with a set of Hawk HPS pads, but rears needed to be changed, ASAP, at around 16k miles. Decided to save the Hawk pads for the next big brake service, so I had Ford install OEM front pads with the supplied front rotors at just under 19k miles... I'm looking for receipt, but I see front pads going for around $177(Hawk HPS fronts were $125). I'm almost certain I paid over $200 for the front OEM pads last November. In hindsight, I will be using Tousley Ford for OEM parts from now on.
Not hard to swap out CAI, put in stock air box, and return tune back to stock. I was just wondering if it was necessary. If it is not, then I do not have to go through the hassle. I do not know what needs to be done or looked at in order to service the ADVANCETRAC System and would have to wait until after work to bring car back to stock before dropping it off.
I was considering DBA 5000 T3/4000 T3 Rotors, but just looked up the part numbers for Brembo Sport Slotted Rotors for both front and rear... not bad. If my fellow members believe that going with larger rotors/pads/calipers in the rear may upset brake bias and/or doesn't provide any performance improvement over stock size, I'll stay with the stock diameter. Thanks on pointing me to ftbr's website! I ran across it in the past. Sweet rotors right there!
Not hard to swap out CAI, put in stock air box, and return tune back to stock. I was just wondering if it was necessary. If it is not, then I do not have to go through the hassle. I do not know what needs to be done or looked at in order to service the ADVANCETRAC System and would have to wait until after work to bring car back to stock before dropping it off.
I was considering DBA 5000 T3/4000 T3 Rotors, but just looked up the part numbers for Brembo Sport Slotted Rotors for both front and rear... not bad. If my fellow members believe that going with larger rotors/pads/calipers in the rear may upset brake bias and/or doesn't provide any performance improvement over stock size, I'll stay with the stock diameter. Thanks on pointing me to ftbr's website! I ran across it in the past. Sweet rotors right there!
GL
4/9/13, 09:49 AM
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Car is scheduled to be looked at tomorrow morning. Pulled out Steeda CAI, installed stock air-box, and returned PCM back to stock calibration. I'll let them do what they must to repair the ADVANCETRAC/ABS/TC System, which most likely means they'll have to install new OEM rear rotors/pads as a consequence... if everything is under warranty!
If I have to come out of pocket for those "wear items" that have worn prematurely, then I will ask if they can service just the ADVANCETRAC/ABS/TC System and see how I can improve the braking set-up with aftermarket parts on my own.
Believe me, I am taking everything that you all mentioned into account... stay with OEM pads/rotors, install stainless steel braided brake-lines, DOT4 fluid flush, and some brake cooling ducts(already installed) seems to be the consensus. The verdict is still not in on aftermarket street pads... too many mixed reviews on if they are any better than stock. I should also note that an important factor for me looking at 2-piece front rotors were that they were lighter than the OEM front rotors. I thought less rotating mass would be a good thing, but not so sure if that matters much right now.
If I have to come out of pocket for those "wear items" that have worn prematurely, then I will ask if they can service just the ADVANCETRAC/ABS/TC System and see how I can improve the braking set-up with aftermarket parts on my own.
Believe me, I am taking everything that you all mentioned into account... stay with OEM pads/rotors, install stainless steel braided brake-lines, DOT4 fluid flush, and some brake cooling ducts(already installed) seems to be the consensus. The verdict is still not in on aftermarket street pads... too many mixed reviews on if they are any better than stock. I should also note that an important factor for me looking at 2-piece front rotors were that they were lighter than the OEM front rotors. I thought less rotating mass would be a good thing, but not so sure if that matters much right now.
4/9/13, 10:40 AM
#32
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I don't know who you spoke to but the stock pads are poo compared to HPS's or probably compared to any other aftermarket brand that is similar to the HPS.
4/9/13, 11:59 AM
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From comments or reviews I have come across via here and other places, both positive and negative. I know that these are all subjective reviews and user experience may vary. I already have Hawk HPS pads on stand-by and they will not go to waste. I have to wait until after this service repair to see how to continue...
4/9/13, 12:05 PM
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From comments or reviews I have come across via here and other places, both positive and negative. I know that these are all subjective reviews and user experience may vary. I already have Hawk HPS pads on stand-by and they will not go to waste. I have to wait until after this service repair to see how to continue...
4/9/13, 10:59 PM
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4/10/13, 01:43 PM
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They may be good for stock pads, but that's not saying much. The stock Boss springs may be good for stock springs, but they aren't awesome either.
4/11/13, 08:20 PM
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UPDATE: Contacted by my Ford Service Dept. It's not what I was expecting... C-clip that should have been securing the axle on the driver-side of Wavetrac rear diff popped out of place and was destroyed. Tech said the only thing keeping axle in place was the rotor/caliper assembly. I believe it may have been improperly installed by the speed shop. The caliper bracket, rotor, and c-clips need replacing. C-clips are being shipped overnight from Autotech Driveline and Ford tech requested for the Wavetrac installation instructions.
Hopefully, the cost will not be so bad so that I can concentrate on other things... like brakes!
Hopefully, the cost will not be so bad so that I can concentrate on other things... like brakes!
4/12/13, 06:27 AM
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4/12/13, 08:54 AM
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LOL! I was thinking about doing that and so did Ford Service, but I decided weeks ago that I will not be using them in the near future... Not only did they install the Wavetrac diff for me back in January, they performed a 93 octane dyno tune on my car a month ago that had idling issues. An attempt to rectify it failed and they have not returned my calls or responded with a fix as of yet.