Seriously, I was thinking the same thing, but then aren't you speaking for others again here by proxy? We know how you don't like that.

 

As someone mentioned to you previously about only speaking for themselves...

Saying you are thinking the same thing is a bit ambiguous. As long as you are thinking the right same thing - that's fine.

But if it makes you happy, I'll speak for everyone when I say that we all want more performance for less money. I apologize if my use of the all encompassing term 'everyone' includes you if you don't want it to.

 

I want more performance at the lowest possible price that is still high enough to ensure the car will stick around long term. That last part is too often overlooked IMO. I am not at all convinced that we would still have an uber-Mustang if a name that brought the necessary interest and cachet to the line had not been applied. Is that worth a premium to me? If it keeps the car around it is.

 

I bet there are more people who would buy a Shelby badged car for more money than the same car not badged Shelby for less money. Ford knows this and that is why they say Shelby because for the price of royalties they sell more cars.

 

I am younger then you( I know you were talking to someone else).

The SVT focus would kick butt if it was released again. It would own the market for its class. I know because I owned one and loved it.


people think the gt500 could be a better car.. its that simple. the gt500 hardly beats the termi around the track then tho it has 100 and something more horse power and is many years newer.


I just do not get the love for a man that has not really done anythign for the car would in the 28 years I have been alive. Other then cash chacks and sue people and talk about the good old days.

My hitler point you missed was simply this... no one at vw pimps out hitler or brings him up sayng all the good things he did for the peoples car. why?? because its over.. I am pretty sure Americans but Evo's even tho some planes used mitsu's motors.

 

people forget that most people(yes even car guys)have no clue what happened 50 years ago.....


and some that do dont give a ****

 

To be long winded and full of BS is a thread killing combination. There is no way I am gonna read the politician style BS you guys have filled this thread with. If you're a SVT fan, you're a SVT fan. If you're a newer mustang Shelby GT500 fan, guess what? You're still a SVT fan because they designed it. Shelby approved the styling and performance so their name could be on the car but they did not design it.

Two types of people here. Those that want it to say Shelby. And those that don't want Shelby on it. For whatever reason. It's not Shelby's work though.

 

You forgot the third person - those that really, really, really wish that they had a Boss 302, but had to settle for a Shelby or Cobra

 

I have a soft spot for the first gen Focus, and I like the SVT model though it was far from perfect. That said the car didn't come close to owning the market for its class when they released it the first time, in fact it was in no way shape or form a marketing success, and the competition has improved since then. So, since you liked it the car would own it's class now in spite of that? It doesn't work like that.

This is where you guys lose me. Originally people complain that the Shelby badge is on a car that Shelby didn't design, but then they will commonly cite sub par performance for the GT500 as the. If the GT500 isn't fast enough wouldn't that be the fault of SVT since they designed the car, or does it somehow supposedly go slower for having Shelby badging on it? How is taking off the Shelby badging going to fix this problem and, if the car is sub par as you insist, why would you care what badging it has on it?

More power to you, obviously not everyone agrees.

LOL, I'm pretty sure they don't bring Hitler up for a different reason. As for Shelby, go look at your local Ford dealership lot, it very obviously isn't over.

Not directed at me but I'll take a shot. I would offer that some folks forget that there are people out there who actually know their history, although I confess that number is dwindling. And, if nobody remembers Shelby, explain this. How has a GT500 that you insinuate isn't as good as the Terminator, which we know is more expensive than the Terminator was, and which wears a badge you insist that nobody wants it to wear performing much better in the marketplace than the Terminator did despite the fact that the Terminator was released when the economy was notably stronger and the GT500 has been on the market longer than the Terminator was?

 

 

This thread was killed long before anything became long winded, and in the same fashion most Shelby related threads seem to die. I have no issue with the SVT setup, in fact I rather like the work they have been doing since Ford fixed that group several years ago.

 

J, you know as well as everyone else here that the added weight from the plastic letters as well as the vinyl stripes is nil. It isn't about that. As I have written before (that you read no doubt) it is about the additional monies incurred for those worthless items (in terms of performance) and how those monies could be put back into the car in terms of performance. Remember the IRS being killed to save ~$100 per vehicle (Thanks Phil Martens as well as Hau Thai-Tang )? That is a fraction of what Mr Shelby receives per car. And that's just a start.


I couldn't disagree more. Note the limited numbers the 5.4 S197 chassis is sold in each year. Arguing that the 'price' of the royalties somehow sells more cars defies simple economics.

The last line says it all.

You have forgotten those that care for neither and simply want a healthy powerplant, tight chassis, and great binders (as has Ford). I do however credit those that work for the SVT group that continually improve the breed. Kerry Baldori, Jamal Hameedi, Gene Martindale, and the rest of the group that work for SVT are doing a fantastic job. They are the ones doing the work - not Shelby or anyone from his group.

I don't care who the engineers work for. I'd credit their efforts no matter who employed them. They just happen to work for SVT/Ford. Were Ford to drop the Shelby name as well as any SVT nomenclature and sell the vehicle at a lower price with simple plain Jane markings I'd be all over it as well as quite a few other enthusiasts looking for a better value.

 

And as I have covered before, would the car be a sales success without that name? The Terminator wasn't despite a lower price and a better economy requiring pretty significant rebates in the second and last model year. Yes, production volume was higher per year, but raising the price to allow a lower total production volume would hardly have assured success since demand would have dropped even further, and a higher price would pose an obvious problem for your argument.

My point with the often at odds complaints that the car shouldn't wear the Shelby badge and that the car isn't good enough lie in the fact that the complaint seems to change to suit the argument, and do so often. Put simply, people will complain that the car is badged a Shelby rather than a SVT, only to later complain that the car itself isn't good enough. Well, if the car itself isn't good enough who is at fault, and likewise why would they care what badge a car they feel is sub par wears? It's a contrived argument designed to reach an end rather than make a point.

GT500 production is limited each year, a lesson no doubt learned in part from the Terminator. That said, that wasn't the only lesson learned from the Terminator. There can be little doubt that demand is better relative to profit and price point for the GT500 than it ever was for the Terminator. Ford certainly agrees or the car wouldn't still be called a GT500.

I agree with you here in this regard, I believe that no 'tuner' badging would work just as well as SVT badging with regard to marketing. To wit, over time I think a Ford Mustang Cobra would sell just as well as a Ford SVT Mustang Cobra. As stated before, I like the revamped SVT, but of course the revamped SVT is an entirely different animal than was version 1.

To be blunt the SVT many here remember so fondly, doesn't exist anymore, and both Ford and SVT are better off for it.

 

I like the last paragraph (I wear plain-pocket T's because I don't want to pay for a swoosh on them.) But your failure to acknowledge an endorsement has no marketing value is a total disconnect.

Nike pays LeBron millions to wear a sweatshirt with a swoosh on it. Cannon paid Andre Aggassi millions to endorse a camera. (What the hell does a tennis player know about making a camera?) Ford paid Eddie Bauer to put the name on a trim level of their Explorer.

I do understand your point, having LeBron endorse it, or Andre, or Eddie Bauer, does not magically make the product better. Having David Ortiz's signature on your Louisville Slugger won't make you a better hitter. (But don't blame the bat--I was always reaching for that outside curve.) Shelby's name on a Mustang does not make it go faster--however, in counterpoint it doesn't slow it down either.

The Shelby name has a value. When Lee Iacocca was tagged to head up Chrysler, he asked Shelby to lend a hand with projects such as the GLH and the Viper and branded products with his name, the Shelby Charger, the Shelby Daytona. If there was no value, I doubt a businessman as savvy as Iacocca would have invested in the effort to have 'Shelby' branded Chrysler products. Ford has a marketing arm. Somebody, somewhere, must have decided that there was a value to using Shelby. Those people decided there was more value in using Shelby GT500 than using SVT Cobra.

Personally, I don't care if Shelby's name is on the car. (Nor do I care if SVT is on the car. In fact I don't even like stripes on the car, but I have no objection if Ford wants to offer them. And I have no quarrel with those who prefer stripes.) But I am not going to pretend that a Shelby branded product has no market value. Attend, or watch a Barret Jackson auction and see what happens when a car with Shelby on it goes on the block. In Scottsdale, no Ford has cracked the top ten in auction price--but the highest bid of $5M was for a '66 Shelby.

 

Telling for me is that people will complain about price creep on the GT500 versus the Cobra models of the past, but a 30k to start Mustang GT gets a pass. In 1993 17k would get me a brand new Z28 at msrp and nobody ever payed msrp for a run of the mills Z28 or GT in 1993. Of course, a V8 Mustang could actually be had for less than a Z28 in 93, but the exact Z28 price was easier to find and works just as well for these purposes.

Keep in mind, as hinted at slready, that this was right in the the thick of the "price 'em high and rebate them 'til they sell" era of marketing, the reality being vastly different than that today. That msrp translates into about 26k or so in todays money, and with even modest rebates means a comparable, base Mustang GT or Camaro SS would sticker at about $26,000, maybe $27,000, and go out the door for meaningfully less than that after rebates. the same money will only get you into a nicely equipped V6 model now, forget a loaded V6 at that price point.

So, why no great outcry from these same folks against the price creep on these models where consumer accessibility really has been hurt? My guess says that this is because price isn't the real issue.

 

Doesn't really have to say SVT either. But the cobra has to stay. Even if it's not originally Fords trademark. They own it now. The old cobra jet motors didn't all say Shelby either and were available in not just the Shelby models. The cobra should stand for the better engine option for sure. Too bad they can't be ordered like they were in the late 60's.

 

ok ok ok

I think some people are getting something wrong(maybe me, maybe not). The svt badge doesnt cost more. The package that makes the car a svt does cost more. The shelby badge costs more becuase they have to pay dues to shelby.

The shelby I owned for example.. The value was in the ford racing parts and not in the hood scoop or stripes or badges. So that I am being clear. I am saying the things that made it a good mustang were not the thigns that made it a shelby.

ford racing parts value



scoop,stripes, pins and grill not value



so out of the cost of the car the things that made it fun and a good car were not shelby items.Also keep in mind my was a true shelby that reached the vegas plant. also keep in mind the stripe were junk and had to be replaced all the time(on all the SGT cars). Keep in mind the first to versions of the SGT hood pins were also crap and had to be replaced. Also keep in mind the hood scoops had to be replaced all the time because the warped. Also keep in mind the shelby lettering on the rear of the car had to be replaced because they made the lettering thin and did nto use good/enough glue. so the shiny bits that made it a shelby really did not work.



The GTCS bumper people liked(ford). The HID's people liked(ford). The shiny wheels people liked(GTCS, ford). The cool powered by ford badge(it even says ford).





oh look more ford! it says ford every where

 

I was saying if the car was rereleased. 2002-04 was a different time in america where people did not see value in fun little cars. Every one wanted a truck or a tahoe or something that could transport 12 kids and a keg. If you had a cool little car most people thought "****! that dudes poor".

 

$43k. Did they hit you up for full list price? 10k mark up for Shelby package. Wouldn't we like to drop the Shelby trademarks and save about $8k off a cobra? Some people buy them because they say Shelby and that is ok. It's cool in its own right. I would buy one because it's the most powerful mustang out there. I don't care if it just has a blue a**hole on the trunk lid only. Just give me the 5.8L supercharged option.

 

I bought it for 26k with 3k miles.