VALCAD

I get the whole Shelby thing and I am shopping for a Mustang. Where you at and how much? What color? Orange or blue? What options? IUP?

Gabe

Aww, come on guys, Carrol Shelby did drive a GT500 prototype and gave Ford some thoughts/pointers ... there's even a video of him driving it ... lol

cdynaco

Well I agree with that. I mean how far could Shelby have gone on his own back in the 60's? Probably pretty dang far.
There must have been a very strong and long term commitment from Ford to Shelby for him to stop racing his Cobras. Not only did the partnership play a pivotal role for Ford's future (on and off the track), but Ford also kept a worthy opponent from taking race victories from them. Instead that opponent became part of the team and the success.
That doesn't come free. Or cheap.

Shelby08

Hickory, NC

Mileage: 44,013.2
Price $21,900
2008 Shelby GT Vista Blue Convertible silver vinyl stripes. Shaker 500 6 Disk plus iPod hookup. MyColor. Leather. HID's. windows tinted 33%. All stock with what Shelby added..Which includes new suspension dropped just over 1", Billet grille, tune, Hurst short throw shifter, and Ford Racing CAI. Tires have 3,000 miles on them.

There is a scrape by the passenger headlight somebody left in a parking lot...

Tob*

Gaack. The AC Cobra was responsible for making the word famous. Ford took advantage of it when they signed a contract with CS and had it used on a '65 Mustang.

Shleppy had nothing to do with the '93 Mustang Cobra and did squat for the current version other than sign the dotted line and accept a healthy paycheck.

Good reason to toss the name aside? So the monies given to him can make the car better. If you simply have to have his name plastered all over something you can always go pick up a case of Z-Max at your local AutoZone. Or might I suggest a Shelby inspired coffee maker from the Shelby Store?

Flagstang

here a window sticker that came with mine

VALCAD

Sorry, I was hoping for a local car, and I want a coupe. Price sounds extremely fair - especially for a convertible. Hope your sale goes well.

ShaneGT

So ford is gonna just drop the cobra name.... they found that calling it the Honey Badger makes more since.....

2 Go Snake

I dont understand why anyone would not want the Shelby name on the GT500. I want Shelby on the trunk. I want Shelby on floor mats with Cobra image. I want Shelby on the rocker panels. I want Shelby on the dash where I can see it. I want Cobra images on the seat. I will never forget what Shelby has done for Ford performance and do not want to forget. I want the Shelby Cobra image to remind me daily. As long as Ford consults with Shelby regarding the performance of the GT500, that is worthwhile and good enough for me.

2k7gtcs

First of all I don't care if it says Shelby, or Jesus, or Bad *** Mother ****er, I don't want any lettering on my trunk.

The trunk emblem I can live with until I find a suitable replacement, and the same will go for the center console.

I just don't give a flip. It's my car and as far as I'm concerned the only designing he did on it was 1 test drive so Ford could say yeah he drove it.

The Cobras i will keep because I like those.

jsaylor

Really, another 'Shelby didn't build it so it sucks thread'? What does this make, like the four billionth thread where the 'SVT rulz and Shelby is the suxor' crowd can rant endlessly about how we should return to a 'SVT Cobra' system that never turned a profit? Well, in that spirit, Jaguar isn't owned by the family that started the company, doesn't even market product under their original name (Swallow sidecars) and isn't even British anymore so God only knows why they even bother. Ferrari's son Piero is nothing more than a figurehead at that company....the Ferrari family having, literally, almost nothing to do with the cars themselves....and of course Enzo himself is gone which means you have a symbolic family position with 10% ownership for a son who likely couldn't build a decent power-wheels vehicle in a company that still wears the family name. So, should those cars really be called a Ferrari anymore? Realistically the Ferrari family has next to nothing to do with them at this point. I mean, how ridiculous do we get with this before we call it for what it is...ridiculous?

Yes, perhaps the GT500 moniker harkens back to a time when Shelby was bad***, when his little SoCal outfit was 1/2 or more of Ford's factory racing effort and oversaw the development and refinement of the 289 Cobra, the 427 Cobra, the Cobra Daytona Coupe, the GT40 Mk I, Mk II, and Mk IV in conjunction with Holman Moody. So, what is the alternative here? To slap a Cobra badge co-opted from cars and a time the SVT group had nothing to do with onto a car styled to look like a GT500 and which follows the formula Shelby developed only to pretend as though the influence of that car doesn't reek of Shelby and that this was all somehow an original idea? Yes, far better a contrived marketing exercise try and live off of the glory days of the Shelby-Ford relationship and pretend as though we somehow aren't doing exactly that.

An internal tuning division was a great idea, but marketing it as SVT was contrived at best and pointless at worst. It would have been far more logical and marketable to bring the Shelby and Holman Moody names back into the fold as sub brands of the Ford brand, and I suspect that the reality is that Ford has figured that out as well. hence the Shelby badging.

lalayla

Steve, you looking? Woohoo! good luck man.

Oh and you should email me that photo of me and Tanner.. Just sayin'!

jsaylor

The Shelby Cobra was responsible for making the name famous, AC was effectively a supplier of body and chassis to Shelby American at this point and actually had to ask Shelby American permission to finish a small run of cars to be sold in Europe none of which left the factory with a snake on the hood. If it wore a snake and had a V-8, it was a Shelby. Of course AC could build all the Ace/Aceca models they wanted to, but if they wanted to build a V-8 powered Cobra twin that required Shelby's approval and they still couldn't throw a Cobra badge on it themselves. The only hint to the Cobra relationship in those AC finished cars was in the serial number. I love Auto Carrier, would love to onw a nice AC 289 Supersports, and I love the cars they built both before and after the Shelby connection. That said, there is no Cobra without Shelby or Ford.

As for applying the moniker to a Mustang, the 65 GT350 was never called a Cobra. The first Mustang to be referred to by the Cobra moniker was actually the 68 GT350/GT500. And Ford was very much involved with Shelby before the GT350, they fronted the money to develop the Cobra which despite internet wisdom required a great deal more than simply dropping a 260 into an Ace, the Mustang simply expanded the relationship.

You know, you might be onto something with that 93 Cobra comment. I mean, who would've thought of taking a V-8 Mustang, warming over the engine just a bit, and then placing an emphasis on handling mods and superior braking offering all of this across the counter as a limited production factory piece for the track enthusiasts among us? Part of me wants to think I have heard that exact formula somewhere else before, but I can't place it right now. Of course, to go even one better we could build a racing version of that same car and call that the 'R Model' and then throw a snake on it, lets use a Cobra, because nobody would ever think of that.

No relation to Shelby? Could we co-opt more GT350 history here? Did they have a paint by numbers book on how to copy the GT350 concept with a Fox body? Seriously, the level of denial here is ridiculous. Every SVT Mustang ever built looks like somebody grabbed the 1960's Shelby playbook and ran with it, but the 'faithful' insist on acting like these are somehow an original concept. I'm no sure Coletti had an original thought in his life, and I'm fine with that, but give credit where credit is due.

I have never understood the SVT 'truther' movement that consistently seeks to reinvent history to serve their own end.

2 Go Snake

The big thing is Carrol Shelby is still alive and can add input to what a GT 500 should become. Shelby still takes production Mustangs and offers the SuperSnake package. As one last big time effort, I look for Shelby to put twin turbos on a Boss 302 LS and show up the ZR1 Corvette. The reason he would choose a Boss over the GT500 would be due to a lighter car in the Boss. I agree with those who say Shelby may offer a package for a Fiesta , but dont think that would appear until the Chcago show. Afterall, this is the Detroit show we are talking about. It will be all about the baddest performance Mustang at Detroit.

Shelby08

bummer...but good luck finding one man!!! you'll love the car!!!!

Tob*

Yawn.

No need to blow the dust off of every yellowing text that details CS historical relevance in the performance car world. Everyone knows all about Shelby's use of the AC body stuffed onto a chassis full of Ford small/big block. Point I was making, was that the AC Cobra got the ball rolling. Nothing more.

More dust.

Read my carefully worded post again. I never said specifically what Ford called the car, only that Ford took advantage of it (Cobra emblems, Cobra lettered valve covers, marketing the 'Cobra Hi-rise' intake, etc).

Hmm. John DeLorean maybe? But you're on a roll so let's go with it...

That includes the 'rice' crowd. The limitless use of the red 'R' must be uniquely Japanese, right? And yeah, amazing that Ford would ever use the 'Cobra' moniker on a Mustang, whether the Cobra trademark is the sole and exclusive property of Ford Motor Company or not (which it is). Shocking.

Relation? That's a word I never used in my post but go ahead and use it as the premise for another history lesson.


Thank God that there were never any GM or Chrysler lightweight, beefed up chassis, V8 powered, 'fat' tired, vehicles to have slipped out of the door in low production numbers. Oops, that's right. There were plenty.


So...less weight, more power, improved handling characteristics, etc, hmmm...looking this one up...and...Nope. I could not find a Shelby patent on the 'What is Necessary to go Faster and Brake Better' handbook. Too bad. He could have made a killing suing everyone that put simple laws of physics to use.

I don't know where that red herring came from, but we can discuss the merits of Mr Coletti and his impact on Ford performance vehicles in another thread if you'd like.

Stop failing to categorize properly and maybe you will understand. Let me put it this way. If Ford sold two nearly identical Mustangs, one with Shelby's name plastered on every corner, the other plain with nothing other than Corporate identification, which one would you buy if the Harken Back500 was a few thousands more?

11SHELBYGT500

Someone's life didn't turn out so great and seems to be very jealous of a living legend named Shelby. Tob*

Kpd3014

Well in response to the original topic I think a turbo application on the new V6 like the other CS6 would be cool. If they wanted to shake it up a twin turbo 302 would be bad a**.
In reference to the other sub-topic. If you have enough money to buy the car then do whatever you want to it. .02 deposited.

2k7gtcs

Joe. No need for that.

I respect your opinion. I'm not saying I'm right or Tob* is right either. It's all just opinion and now you know how we feel. Though I don't speak for him.

I like the performance of the car and I don't give a flying **** whose name is on it.

jsaylor

I am always amazed at just how far the 'I hate Carroll Shelby' crowd will go to demonstrate how much they dislike the man. To be blunt this group fascination with trying to discredit a guy most of you have never met, and who I can only assume has done nothing to any of you personally, is all a little weird. Scratch that, it is very weird.

And since you do seem to be a stickler for accuracy, I would point out that the AC Cobra you keep referring to literally doesn't exist. Of course AC deserves huge credit, as do Ford and Shelby American, I just thought a stickler for accuracy would appreciate, well, accuracy. Logically, if these were AC Cobras shouldn't we be calling the classic GT40 racer a Lola GT40? In my experience most folks who insist on the AC Cobra moniker are either poorly informed, AC/British car enthusiasts, referring specifically to the AC assembled cars, or have an axe to grind relative to Shelby and are trying to make a point...though I have honestly never really figured out what that point would be.

The GT350 relationship was based on a desire to race and win in a Mustang. Shelby was selected for the task because he had proven capable of doing exactly that with the Cobra. GT350's wore Cobra bits because the, not surprisingly, used the same high performance parts the Cobra did. Your original statement makes it sound as though the Cobra connection was the goal here when it was really just icing on the cake, a successful Mustang race-car was the real goal. If you are going to dust off history then it is worth the effort to get it right and be specific.

So far as I know DeLorean didn't cobble together a track ready ponycar for GM in 1965.

I'm thrilled to see Ford use the Cobra trademark, letting the trademark run out on that moniker would have been a terrible idea. Of course, it is only a plus that Ford saw fit to reconnect that name to a Shelby badged product when that option became available. With regard to the axe to grind with Shelby and the use of the Cobra moniker, etc, I am a little confused. Shouldn't you be angry with Ford and not just Carroll Shelby over this? I mean, it was Ford who relegated the SVT marketing scheme to the waste-bin of history bringing the Shelby moniker back, and it is Ford who continues that policy.

As for your comments on the R Model moniker, that others would use the Shelby-Ford formula, including parts of the naming scheme, is hardly a surprise. Again, my question here is why build SVT cars that are blatantly trying to be modern-day Shelby Mustangs when you can just build modern-day Shelby Mustang and stop pretending? When building Shelby badged cars wasn't possible simply using the Cobra moniker was obviously necessary and I supported that wholeheartedly. That said, when using the Shelby badge became possible again, why on earth would Ford avoid a connection that is so obvious, that is connected to serious racing success, and which is historically hugely significant relative Ford performance in general. As hinted at above, Ford would appear to agree with me here since they are still using the Shelby label.

Really, it's a rather short history. SVT builds cars that allude to a past where very similar cars wore Shelby rather than SVT badging and, eventually, somebody at Ford decides the SVT marketing scheme isn't working. As such the whole tuning arm gets a revamp part of which is the return of the Shelby label since the Shelby-Ford connection is possible again. For Ford that had to be a no-brainer as the Shelby moniker has more history and prestige than SVT giving it a better chance at success. (not to mention these were the cars that invented Mustang high performance)

Absolutely, but I don't recall any factory prepped, track cars cars that had a street twin from those makes in 1965 outside of the Corvette and that was a full on sports car. Nither Gm or Chrysler were even building cars like the Mustang when the GT350 bowed. So, since GM copied the formula Ford and Shelby came up with in the 1960's, just like SVT eventually would, it means that SVT isn't really copying it? I don't think that really holds much water and the fact that SVT Mustangs were enormously 'inspired' by older Shelby models is so obvious it doesn't deserve a debate. We may as well be debating where the earth is round. If some SVT loyalists who have a bone to pick with Shelby for whatever reason would rather argue otherwise, I get it. Of course that viewpoint doesn't actually change reality, it simply chooses to ignore it.

You are trying waaayyy too hard here.

I fail to see how Coletti is anything but completely relevant to this discussion.

Do you mean would I pay more for a car that is, to be blunt, an actual Ford-Shelby offering and not, in effect, a modern day homage to a classic Shelby? Yeah, of course I would. In that same spirit I wouldn't pay as much for a tailor made suit if Levi's made it and it was just as good as a suit from one of countless established tailors. Names typically earn their value, which is why people pay a premium everyday for names like Ferrari, Hugo Boss, Shelby, even mainstream brand like Coca Cola and Ford relative to bargain priced alternatives.

To be blunt every SVT Mustang really was an attempt to produce a modern day Shelby Mustang without the Shelby name affixed. For the record I would pay more for a Boss 302 than a SVT 302, and more for a Mach-1 than a Mach-SVT, etc. To me, those concepts are just as ridiculous as badging a car that blatantly owes it's inspiration to a Shelby product as a SVT model when the Shelby label is available. Why reinvent the wheel just to say you did it?