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Rough/surging idle

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Old 10/28/11, 02:58 PM
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Rough/surging idle

Recently I was laid off and that means the Mustang is not driven as often as I'd like as gas to fill it costs too much. I start it up and run it every other day. Well one day I found my battery dead and went to Advance to get a new one. I brought in a red top optima and they said let them charge and see what happens, some times they can bring it back. So I agreed. After five days the battery was deemed no good and I bought a new one.

Here is the problem. The gas in the tank might've gone bad as it sat in there for a week straight in Florida's August heat. This particular tank of gas had lasted me for a month before the the battery died. Since I put in the new battery my idle is fine upon start up but after a short ride down my street to the stop sign the car's idle gets rough. When I stop the idle drops to 500 then bounces back up to where it should be. While driving everythign is fine. It is the second I put it in neutral to coast to a light, at a dead stop, or just idling that it bounces up and down.

I have run an entire new tank of gas through it, just refilled the tank and added sea foam fuel system cleaner so it might be too early to tell if the cleaner is working.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Old 10/30/11, 09:49 AM
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No advice or thoughts at all?
Old 10/30/11, 11:26 AM
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My first thought is Throttle Body needs a cleaning.
How many Miles?
I seriously doubt gas goes bad in a month. Heck, mine has set in the garage for 3 months before and gas was never a problem. And we had 114 deg. days.
Old 10/30/11, 07:09 PM
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Mine sits for 3-4 months in the winter with no problems.
Old 10/30/11, 08:49 PM
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gas should be fine. whenever battery is changed, it needs to go thru the driving cycle to recalibrate some sensors, mine got real goofy one day after changing the battery, did some reading and went thru it, been fine every since.

unhook the battery for a while again to reset everything - hook it up, let it warm up, get on the highway, run up to anything over 60 then lift and let engine braking only slow the car to under 40, think its supposed to be several times, but once fixed mine...it recalibrates the crankshaft angle sensor and all is well.

on mine I'd changed the battery, drove around town a day or three, first highway trip over 60, I had no stops till the offramp at work- I 'kinda like' that ramp and was doing close to 80 coming off, lifted, pushed in the clutch, turned into works driveway...car stalled for the first time. after work went to leave, the car wouldnt idle- sat there burping from 500~2000 rpm, stalling constantly...apparently as I didnt decel right, the car musta mapped a bad comp for the crank sensor and man did it act goofy. read up on it at home, and soon as I did the smooth engine braking thing from 60-40 it was 100% back to normal. weird
Old 11/8/11, 03:50 PM
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It has roughly 91,000 on the clock. And I didn't think about cleaning the throttle body.

Also, twice since changing the battery upon start up it seems like it's clogged. Like I turn the key and it chokes after it turns over. Then if I step on the gas it seems like it wants to stall before it revs up and blows out a huge white cloud of smoke. Could this be happening because it mapped wrong? The second time it happened was after I droe the car for an hour, parked it, drove it an hour, then parked it in the driveway. Went to and from Orlando in one day and the next day I went to head up to campus and that is when it burped the white smoke.

So if I unhook the battery then take it out on the highway to remap it, will that help it out? I am going to try it anyway tomorrow afternoon on the way back from campus.

Thanks for chiming in guys!
Old 11/10/11, 06:20 PM
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EDIT- found that info again, on page 19 of this huge motocraft PDF:

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi.../OBDSM1202.pdf
heres the relevant part:
"Profile correction" software is used to "learn" and correct for mechanical inaccuracies in the crankshaft position
wheel tooth spacing. Since the sum of all the angles between crankshaft teeth must equal 360
o
, a correction factor
can be calculated for each misfire sample interval that makes all the angles between individual teeth equal. . The
LDR misfire system will learn one profile correction factor per cylinder (ex. 4 correction factors for a 4 cylinder
engine), while the HDR system will learn 36 or 40 correction factors depending on the number of crankshaft wheel
teeth (ex. 36 for V6/V8 engines, 40 for V10 engines).
The corrections are calculated from several engine cycles of misfire sample interval data. The "mature" correction
factors are the average of a selected number of samples. In order to assure the accuracy of these corrections, a
tolerance is placed on the incoming values such that an individual correction factor must be repeatable within the
tolerance during learning. This is to reduce the possibility of learning corrections on rough road conditions which
could limit misfire detection capability and to help isolate misfire diagnoses from other crankshaft velocity
disturbances.
To prevent any fueling or combustion differences from affecting the correction factors, learning is done during
decel-fuel cutout. This can be done during closed-throttle, non-braking, de-fueled decelerations in the 60 to 40 mph
range after exceeding 60 mph (likely to correspond to a freeway exit condition). In order to minimize the learning
time for the correction factors, a more aggressive decel-fuel cutout strategy may be employed when the conditions
for learning are present and are typically learned in a single 60 to 40 MPH deceleration, but can be learned during
up to 3 such decelerations, or over a higher number of shorter duration decelerations..
For Hybrid Electric Vehicles profile is learned by using the electric drive to spin the crankshaft on the first engine
shutdown during which time profile is calculated.
Since inaccuracies in the wheel tooth spacing can produce a false indication of misfire, the misfire monitor is not
active until the corrections are learned. In the event of battery disconnection or loss of Keep Alive Memory the
correction factors are lost and must be relearned. If the software is unable to learn a profile after three 60 to 40
mph decels, a P0315 DTC is set.


might want to save a copy of that one- lots of info in there...took me forever to find it the first time

you know... in reading thru that again, i betcha the misfire detection contributed to the fuelpump tsb issues too...they mention it can ignore low fuel, but the few times mine acted up after a long cruise, it was a pretty violent bucking- a lot worse than other cars ive had that stumbled due to low fuel...

one last thing- when doing the 60-40 engine braking, do it on a smooth road...just thinking the time mine screwed up was first decel from over 60 after the battery swap, and along with pushing in the clutch, it was also a pretty bumpy stretch of road...as the calibrating is looking for like tenths or maybe thousandths worst case machining errors of the sensor triigger teeth, bouncing down the road would have to have a effect on it...

Last edited by ford4v429; 11/10/11 at 06:45 PM.
Old 11/10/11, 06:40 PM
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Interesting. Guess I know what I'll read before bed tonight!
Old 11/21/11, 07:31 PM
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No luck. I will need to try this again. I hate that I don't have a better set of tools in order to do the simple maintenance work.

I wonder if I should change my plugs and wires and retry the remapping. The remapping didn't work the first time.
Old 11/22/11, 02:01 PM
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So did you CLEAN the Throttle Body?
Old 11/22/11, 02:08 PM
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That will happen this week. I need to get with my neighbor who has all the tools to do this, but he hasn't been free due to work commitments and personal commitments. I will clean it out then reset the battery and see what happens.
Old 11/22/11, 03:45 PM
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Be DARNED SURE to read the "How To" before you do.
You definatly DO NOT want to get cleaner on the sensor!
Old 12/2/11, 06:27 AM
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Well?
Old 12/6/11, 03:08 PM
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Sorry for the delayed response! KDF I have a Hayes manual and followed the TMS threads that dealt with throttle body cleaning. Bought CRC Throttle Body cleaner and MAF cleaner from Advanced Autoparts. Took the throttle body off the car and it was DISGUSTNG!!! Holy crud was there a lot of build up in there. I mean I had to use my fingernail to scrape it off cause the cleaner was taking too long to break it up. After that I actually used a toothbrush that I had melted the tips of the bristles so they were rounder to get into the nooks and crannies. Then I soaked the heck out of it with the cleaner and then wiped it clean with the rag. After that I reinstalled it all and went about reconnecting the battery. Turned it on and let everything settle then fired it up. Turned right over and let her idle for a few before test driving her. Pulled harder than when I first test drove her, idled smoothly and in perfect range, even when at idle with the a/c cranked the idled didn't even dip.

So now why would this suddenly happen when the battery died? Think that it sitting let the gunk that had been built up harden enough to throw off the butterflies?

Anyway, thansk to both KDF and Ford4v429 for the input.
Also a big thanks to Houtex who's previous thread on this subject was a big help!
Old 12/8/11, 08:58 AM
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http://www.americanmuscle.com/jlt-oi...or-0510gt.html

One of these would help with the Throttle Body getting gunked up.

http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-b...driver-05.html

I have this one. It does help.
Old 8/30/18, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ford4v429
EDIT- found that info again, on page 19 of this huge motocraft PDF:

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi.../OBDSM1202.pdf
heres the relevant part:



might want to save a copy of that one- lots of info in there...took me forever to find it the first time

you know... in reading thru that again, i betcha the misfire detection contributed to the fuelpump tsb issues too...they mention it can ignore low fuel, but the few times mine acted up after a long cruise, it was a pretty violent bucking- a lot worse than other cars ive had that stumbled due to low fuel...

one last thing- when doing the 60-40 engine braking, do it on a smooth road...just thinking the time mine screwed up was first decel from over 60 after the battery swap, and along with pushing in the clutch, it was also a pretty bumpy stretch of road...as the calibrating is looking for like tenths or maybe thousandths worst case machining errors of the sensor triigger teeth, bouncing down the road would have to have a effect on it...
This PDF link is not working?
Old 8/30/18, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by davids2toys
This PDF link is not working?
Link is 7 years old. Probably not valid anymore.
Old 8/30/18, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SpectreH
Link is 7 years old. Probably not valid anymore.
I did not realize how old this thread was. I don't understand why that happens! Anyway I tried the 60-40 process and it seemed to work so far. My idle is a lot more consistent, around 750RPM. It did not say what gear to be in, so I ended up doing it 3 times in 4th and 3 times in 5th. Thank you for posting the fix, so much nicer!
What is with these Fords and constantly have these silly issues and codes, then secret ways to fix them? I hear Chevy are the same way. My Toyota everyday driver, 12 years, not one code!!! My Stang is 13 years old, 60K miles, always garaged, never seen snow. So far this year my door panel liner/pleather covering just fell off, seat lumbar support broken, alternator replaced, needed to install JLT catch can (really nice piece) to stop throttle body carbon build up. Last year was all the fun of the spark plug TSB.I was real careful and patient. I managed to get them all out without breaking one

Last edited by davids2toys; 8/30/18 at 02:40 PM. Reason: forgot to say thank you
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