Five Oh Brian

George, I didn't offer any deals to TMS membership as I am not here to promote the dealership I work or sell cars here - hence the reason that I've never divulged where I work.

I intentionally will never tell anyone here where I work so that I can continue to be on these forums as an enthusiast first and foremost, while anonymously helping you all with insider info that you might not have access to otherwise.

I find that a lot of Mustang forum members (including TMS members) appreciate hearing the dealership side of the equation to better understand the entire scope of Mustang purchasing and ownership.

My opinions often clash with my employer and Ford Motor Company. Just because I've reported that my employer sold all of our GT500's with an ADM doesn't mean I agree with their actions. Heck, that prevented me from getting a GT500! I grew tired of waiting for us employees to get a "deal" on a GT500, so I bought a 2007 Mustang GT that I can modify and race instead.

So, please understand that when I report what I see happening within my dealership or Ford Motor Company, I don't necessarily condone all that I report. As the old saying goes - "don't shoot the messenger."

Five Oh Brian

I am not a dealer. I am an employee of a dealership that chose to charge ADM's on GT500's. I neither made that decision, nor do I have influence on pricing, so please don't judge me based on my employer's choices.

Worth noting - the dealership I work for is one of the top 10 volume Ford dealers in the NW (out of 150+ stores) and the vast majority of our business comes from repeat and referral business. We are one of the most decorated dealerships in terms of customer satisfaction awards. Old time customer loyalty is alive and well here.

Five Oh Brian

Quick review, George:

MSRP stands for Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. I trust you know what the word "suggested" means.

Our market economy dictates transaction prices based on supply and demand. A commodity with more demand than supply sells for more, while a commodity with less demand than supply sells for less.

GT500's have experienced much more demand than supply, hence pricing has often (of course, not always) been above MSRP. Most other Ford models languish on the lots unwanted by the general public, hence pricing of those is almost always below MSRP (and often at or below invoice). It's our market economy in action, and it is a beautiful and nearly perfect machine. To define either circumstance as a betrayal is just plain nonsense.

But, in your perception, an ADM is betraying the customer. So, based on that logic, would that mean that when a dealership sells a rig for below MSRP, that the customer is betraying the dealership? If so, we must put a stop to any deviation from MSRP immediately. Effective today, all vehicles should be sold firmly at MSRP - no ADM's and certainly no discounts - as either scenario is a betrayal!!!

I'm often sarcastic, and for that I apologize. Too bad we can't speak face to face so that we can see how silly we're both behaving.

1 COBRA

I trust you know what the word "integrity" means.

Not only are you sarcastic but condesending as well. Other than providing insignificant details of dealer daily operations and testimonials there is little you can lecture about which most members are not aware of but if that fills a void then by all means knock yourself out and keep repeating yourself. Perhaps becoming familiar with the copy and paste functions might save you time and energy or for even better efficiency you might like to consider posting your thoughts as part of your sig.

Plainly speaking, you and I will not see eye to eye. Your priority is elugizing the dealer you work for and defending dealer positions, mine is the benefit of the TMS membership and the quest for realizing the dreams of their favorite cars. Your position is an obstacle and contradicts what many around here are trying to accomplish. As the old cliche goes, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem, and your quest for sympathy is not likely to be realized.

1FAFP90

There is no way I will ever believe that post was written by a 17 year old.

1 COBRA

Would you believe I will be 23 when I retire?

1FAFP90

Why not? You might be retired now.

Five Oh Brian

Selling at MSRP or less does not equate to integrity. Integrity has much less to do with pricing than it does service, promises kept, and honesty.

Five Oh Brian

You only believe I am condescending as I do not share your opinion on everything. I'm sorry you feel the need to lash out at me for pricing actions that I had no part of, nor did I condone. But, if you would like me to be your scapegoat, then so be it. We're all adults here.

Five Oh Brian

You are still erroneously confusing my employer's position with mine. I have never said that selling a GT500 with an ADM is a good thing. I only said that it is happening, that I'm still seeing it, and that our market economy is the cause of it.

I have clearly stated that I don't like it personally, and that it has prevented me from being able to buy a GT500 for myself. Truth be told, it makes my salesmen's jobs much easier to sell more vehicles if our pricing is attractive, so I have always been a proponent of competitive pricing on everything that is sold where I work (however, pricing is outside of my control, so I am only an observer). Sometimes, though, competitive pricing on a hot commodity means having a smaller ADM than your competitors. ADM's are not evil, just as huge discounts aren't evil - both are simply supply and demand manifesting themselves in real transaction prices.

It is sheer coincidence that as a Mustang enthusiast (first and foremost) that I also happen to work at a car dealership. Does working at a car dealership really make me a bad person?

1 COBRA

You can slice it whichever way you want and portray the appearance of not absorbing the point. I believe others who carefully read all the previous comments do and can reach a conclusion on who is right and who is not. Your approach with respect to dealers is nothing less than a paradox to absence of malice.

Five Oh Brian

George, neither you or I are more right than the other. Why are you so hellbent on proving me wrong or less of a person than you? We have different opinions based on different observations and perceptions. I'm not here trying to say you're wrong or I'm right, and we can agree to disagree entirely on the subject of pricing even though, truth be told, you and I are on the same page about not desiring ADM's. I don't like ADM's any more than you do, but the difference is that I understand why they exist, while you are trying to bully anyone who explains them.

If you would be kind enough to read my very first post in this thread you will discover that I was only reporting on the facts of transactions that I have first hand knowledge of. This was presented in an objective fashion. My personal opinions and beliefs were left out completely. You came in making assumptions about what I believed when you do not know me.

I completely understand that you got screwed on that new Bullitt you ordered, and thus reordered another elsewhere, and I am sincerely sorry that this happened to you. This has obviously upset you, and you are likely hating car dealers right about now. However, try not to displace your anger on me as I had absolutely nothing to do with your woes.

denlem

I'm curious (not arguing)... if the GT500 sold for $8K over, WHO gets that extra $8K? I would hope that the salesman that made the sale would get a much better than normal comission!!??

harley99fb

I've been reading Five Oh's posts for at least 2 years.

In my opinion, nobody did a better job of providing information to the boards than he did. Especially in the early years on stangsunleashed. He provided info on the ordering process, when we could order, what options there was going to be, color combos, etc. He also helped people locate cars.

I never once read where he supported ADM's. He always just reported to us what he had first hand knowledge of.

Of all the dealership employees posts that I have read, none have been more helpful.

I feel he is being attacked unfairly. JMHO

Five Oh Brian

That's a good question and I'm glad you asked. Our salespeople are rather unique in that they do not set pricing (our general manager and sales managers do), hence the salespeople have no control over profit. As they have no control over profit, they are not paid a percentage of the profit, as in 99% of the car dealers out there. Instead, they are paid a flat fee regardless of whether the car in question was sold at a huge loss (like a loss-leader car in an advertisement), or whether it was a GT500 (being sold for $8K over MSRP). So, they aren't really excited about selling GT500's as it is just another car to them. And, there are so few of them (we get 4 this year, and we sell about 1,800 cars per year), that it's really a small drop in the bucket, relatively speaking.

That said, the dealership gets the extra $8K, and as it is a family owned and operated dealership, the owner pockets the money. He is a good guy and is well regarded by customers and employees alike, but certainly does not want to leave money on the table on a car like the GT500. I've tried explaining that the market is getting closer and closer to MSRP, and I've showed him eBay listings and sales at MSRP, but he persists with an ADM. To his credit, though, our ADM's are getting smaller and smaller on GT500's as time goes buy. He is trying hard to strike a good balance of customer loyalty and goodwill versus market pricing on these cars. Has he succeeded in finding a perfect balance? Who knows and certainly their are different opinions on this.

I have certainly lobbied hard for small ADM's or MSRP, and I worked on the boss way back in early 2006 for an employee deal on a GT500, but failed as we had over 100 people lined up for GT500's, only 6 allocated to us in 2007, and many of those customer prepared to pay well over sticker, leaving me SOL.

1 COBRA

Probably because you are so hellbent on being the latest self appointed dealers' public defender, further proven by you tail gating me on other unrelated threads in an attempt associate and extend this topic.

Perhaps you have not been on this board long enough to observe others who previously expressed similar stands as yours and received little support if any. Many of guys know what I am all about and have helped enough of them to accomplish their goals without seeking any compensation therefore cementing my position and ruling out any inclusion of personal interests. It a matter of honoring principles, loyalty, and what it's best for the members.

Clearly there are no gray areas here even though your persistance is commendable for trying to prove otherwise. It's either black or white, so even the color blind can make a distinction.

SixtySix

Life is NEVER black or white. If it were, we would all be robots.

Agree to disagree guys, it's getting old.

1 Bullitt = Black and White

Five Oh Brian = Grey

You'll never agree, so be it!

codeman94

hey George.....are you (or were) you a lawyer?....cause seriously man...I've seen you in tons of arguements here over the years and you ALWAYS want to get the last word....sometimes just becuase the other guy just gives up..lol...like I have a few times with you......Or the thread gets shut down....which I see in my crystal ball....

Five Oh Brian

Cal, thanks for posting. I can certainly understand why George is bitter toward me. I am fairly new to the TMS forums, so he and I have no history together. And, it is very easy to lump all dealership employees together and stereotype them as all bad, so I've had this kind of issue in other forums, as well. I'm glad that people like you, Cal, can seperate my passion for Mustangs from the fact that I work in the car biz.

Five Oh Brian

Here's where you are terribly wrong, George.

I did not take a stand on anything. I simply reported what is happening with no judgement passed on my part as to whether it is right or wrong.

You, on the other hand, took an immediate stand that the facts I was objectively reporting were evil (or a betrayal, as you put it), and you opted to portray those objective facts as my beliefs, when, in fact, my beliefs run contrary to the facts I was reporting.

So, are we done yet (I know I am). I am weary of defending myself for actions and beliefs that were not mine.