What's New in the 2011 FRPP Handling Pack?
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Cobra R Member
Joined: June 17, 2010
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From: Southeastern Virginia
[quote=carnut;5942139]
What about all the scoops (side and hood) that do nothing but increase drag and add weight? The plastic engine cover? The "diffuser"?
There is lots of stuff on these cars that has no real need. I'm not saying the STB is one of those things- I don't know. At least it is doing something- has to be increasing stiffness somewhat- now if it's needed.... you'd have to run sensors on the shock towers to see if they are moving without the brace, and run lots of laps to see if there is an advantage to running with or without it.
Yeah, I was talking more about the mechanical side of things. As for the appearance stuff, there's all sorts of crap out there. And you'll note very little of it comes stock - it's all add-on options.
What about all the scoops (side and hood) that do nothing but increase drag and add weight? The plastic engine cover? The "diffuser"?
There is lots of stuff on these cars that has no real need. I'm not saying the STB is one of those things- I don't know. At least it is doing something- has to be increasing stiffness somewhat- now if it's needed.... you'd have to run sensors on the shock towers to see if they are moving without the brace, and run lots of laps to see if there is an advantage to running with or without it.
V6 Member
Joined: August 2, 2010
Posts: 63
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From: Toronto Ontario
Hey racer91. Thanks for your input. Nice to see info from someone who has been there and has first-hand experience. Adds a lot to our understanding. I am sure that early Mustangs needed chassis stiffening and STBs. My feeling is that today's Stang is far superior in this regard. And if I remember correctly, the suggestion back then was that the frame stiffeners should be welded in, not bolted, and the STB be triangulated back to the firewall to really be effective. The bar Ford sells today is not conected back to the firewall and not only that, has elongated bolt holes where it fastens to the strut towers. To me, it appears that the towers, being part of the body structure, look to be stiffer than the method by which the bar is mounted. Thus no help.
If there is any flexing of the towers over 100,000 miles, I would think the bar would have moved about in the mounting holes and negated the bars advantage. In any case there are lots of good arguments on both sides by knowledgable engineers and racers as to any advantage pro or con and I'm not in a position to try and change anyone's mind. Reminds me of the arguments in Hi-Fi circles about the sound qualities of using different cables in a digital sound system. If one is going to thrash their car over 100,000 miles, or you have been in an accident that has weakened the strut towers, then maybe a properly mounted STB is worth considering.
Another respected poster on a similar site, suggests the STB is included with the 19" wheel (and vert?)to add mass in order to dampen harshness and noise that occurs with the larger wheel. Possible? A fix, so to speak. Probably this extra mass can be felt by some proponents of the bar and might be interpeted as a handling improvement.
Anyhow, we are both in agreement with our answer to the OP that any bar will be okay. Especially as he not planning to race. Just not for the same reasons. BTW, I am keeping my STB on my 2011 because I think it looks neat. Does that date me or not? I'm just not expecting any extra performance on the road course because of it.
Cheers.
If there is any flexing of the towers over 100,000 miles, I would think the bar would have moved about in the mounting holes and negated the bars advantage. In any case there are lots of good arguments on both sides by knowledgable engineers and racers as to any advantage pro or con and I'm not in a position to try and change anyone's mind. Reminds me of the arguments in Hi-Fi circles about the sound qualities of using different cables in a digital sound system. If one is going to thrash their car over 100,000 miles, or you have been in an accident that has weakened the strut towers, then maybe a properly mounted STB is worth considering.
Another respected poster on a similar site, suggests the STB is included with the 19" wheel (and vert?)to add mass in order to dampen harshness and noise that occurs with the larger wheel. Possible? A fix, so to speak. Probably this extra mass can be felt by some proponents of the bar and might be interpeted as a handling improvement.
Anyhow, we are both in agreement with our answer to the OP that any bar will be okay. Especially as he not planning to race. Just not for the same reasons. BTW, I am keeping my STB on my 2011 because I think it looks neat. Does that date me or not? I'm just not expecting any extra performance on the road course because of it.
Cheers.
V6 Member
Joined: June 9, 2010
Posts: 75
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From: New Jersey
I would really like somebody to test the effects of a STB. Give a pro like Randy Pobst a Mustang with a bar. Run 4 laps. Cool the car off, pull the STB and run 4 more laps. Lap times would end the debate.
GT Member
Joined: September 8, 2009
Posts: 197
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From: Tampa, FL
I actually have some experience testing in this department (strut tower braces)...
Do they work? The short answer is yes! Are they worth it? Depends....
nemosgt:
You state that drifters are generating a lot of side loading.. That is not exactly true. A sliding car generates very little lateral loading on a car because the tires are WAY outside their optimal slip angle.
You make a comment about the FR500C car. The reason there is no strut tower brace is because there is absolutely no room to slip a brace between the stock hood and the intake manifold. Otherwise, it would have one. It fit the FR500S car so it gets one. These are cars that generate a significant amount of lateral load and can benefit from the use of a strut tower brace.
Here's the skinny on STBs. They benefit a street car the most. The reason is the load case. The highest loads into the strut towers comes from the vertical load generated by the shock and spring forces. These are highest during impacts (like when you hit a pothole). The strut tower brace adds stiffness to the front and helps control shake. That being said... The newer cars are MUCh stiffer (structurally) than the older cars. That is why it's not a noticable difference (to most) on the coupe. Also consider the long-term effects of not having a STB. With the reduced stiffness, the front structure will fatigue faster. With the STB, the chassis will feel more taught for longer. If you have ever had an opportunity to drive a car that has been through Ford's durability test with and without a STB, you would notice a BIG difference (recall the last fox Mustang you drove).
Now, to the point of which is better... Take your pick. They all do just about the same amount of work. Personally, I prefer the Ford Racing STB for the Shelby GT500. That piece is STOUT. I only wish the did that same design in a piece that would clear the stock GT hood so I didn't have to put the Shelby front end on my car...
Do they work? The short answer is yes! Are they worth it? Depends....
nemosgt:
You state that drifters are generating a lot of side loading.. That is not exactly true. A sliding car generates very little lateral loading on a car because the tires are WAY outside their optimal slip angle.
You make a comment about the FR500C car. The reason there is no strut tower brace is because there is absolutely no room to slip a brace between the stock hood and the intake manifold. Otherwise, it would have one. It fit the FR500S car so it gets one. These are cars that generate a significant amount of lateral load and can benefit from the use of a strut tower brace.
Here's the skinny on STBs. They benefit a street car the most. The reason is the load case. The highest loads into the strut towers comes from the vertical load generated by the shock and spring forces. These are highest during impacts (like when you hit a pothole). The strut tower brace adds stiffness to the front and helps control shake. That being said... The newer cars are MUCh stiffer (structurally) than the older cars. That is why it's not a noticable difference (to most) on the coupe. Also consider the long-term effects of not having a STB. With the reduced stiffness, the front structure will fatigue faster. With the STB, the chassis will feel more taught for longer. If you have ever had an opportunity to drive a car that has been through Ford's durability test with and without a STB, you would notice a BIG difference (recall the last fox Mustang you drove).
Now, to the point of which is better... Take your pick. They all do just about the same amount of work. Personally, I prefer the Ford Racing STB for the Shelby GT500. That piece is STOUT. I only wish the did that same design in a piece that would clear the stock GT hood so I didn't have to put the Shelby front end on my car...
If I had to guess, the STB would offer such a small improvement, that driving a few laps wouldn't be statistically significant. Even Randy Pobst can't hit the exact same lap time down to the hundredth of a second every lap, and I bet the improvement of the STB would be smaller than the normal variation in track times that even Randy would see.
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