GTJOHN

No. The Camaro is supposed to be direct competition for the Mustang - V6 & V8.
You can expect to see a 350hp-400hp Camaro priced between $30k-$35k. The 500hp version will be $40k+.

Unlike Ford, GM has performance models all over the place. GM isn't going to sell a 400hp Z28 as much as a C6 Corvette($45,075) although we all know Corvettes are over $50k when its all said and done.

bt4

There seems to be a lot of excitement over a 400-HP Camaro. Think GTO. The Holden Monaro was originally imported sporting a 400-HP LS2. It didn't outperform the 300-HP Mustang GT (AutoChannel 5.8 0-60 vs 5.2*) and it was more expensive. So the GTO had more horsepower than the Mustang, IRS instead of a live axle. The Mustang sold over 160,000 units the GTO sold...(I'm sure you get the point.)

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/06/03/198342.html

(*I know there are different numbers available, I chose autochannel since both cars are reviewed there. You can argue the numbers, but it at least the source is consistent.)

The GM crowd has been worried about cost and there has been talk of "de-contenting" the entry level cars (IRS is more expensive than a live-axle). Search the archives at MotorTrend if you are interested. GM marketing was very concerned when they found they couldn't place an entry level Camaro within $2000 of an entry level Mustang. On premium vehicles 2K is not so critical—on an entry level machine it could be a deal-killer.

IMO with the Mustang, Ford has made a good business case for a 300-hp RWD coupe in the $25-29k price range. It sells--in numbers that encourage Ford to continue making them.

A question unaswered; is there a volume market for a 400-hp, RWD coupe in the $30-35k range? (Would it be a great surprise to anyone if gas prices were close to $4/gal by the middle of next year?) With rising gas prices and the market trend toward smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, a 30-35k 400-hp Camaro might very well suffer the same fate as the late GTO--a good vehicle, with good performance and not enough sales to justify GM continuing production. GM has already suggested that they need to sell 100,000 units to make the Camaro product viable. And, they may make that mark, but it won't be by selling $35k 400-hp machines.

The fate of the Camaro, much like the fate of the Mustang rests on whether the average buyer is willing to buy the entry level product.

GTJOHN

The Mustang GT was faster then the 2004 350hp GTO, but not as fast as the 400hp version.

Like the Corvette, the Mustang is an American Icon. Regardless if the Camaro & Challenger are superior products, the Mustang will out-live them - again.

400hp Camaro near $40k? I said "No". But, you may be right, considering by the time the Camaro arrives, the cost of a 2009 or 2010 Mustang GT Premium will be around $33k-$34k, due to Fords annual increase.

bt4

It will be interesting to see what the market will bear. I do like the looks of the Camaro covertible (I like it better than the coupe). But depending on the price it could be a tough sell. But the bow-tie faithful have something to look forward to--and it looks to have a better chance of remaining on the playing field. The Mopar fans may have a smaller chance of a car that will have an extended run.


The Dodge/Chrysler faithful have been told (warned) to expect at least a $31k price tag at entry and around $50k for the high-performance editions.

http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger.html

Granted, that is not outrageous in today's market, but at those price points, it will not be a volume-seller. The Challenger is slick, but then niche vehicles have not thrived well lately (T-Bird, SSR, Prowler).

I hope the Camaro and Challenger do find a market--competition improves the breed.

max2000jp

I don't think Ford can do both and keep the price down. It's simple economics. The current chassis is good, but for a street car IRS is the supension of choice.

bob

Gah, I must agree to disagree. Anyways, wasn't the current chassis engineered for both, then the IRS option never acted on? Packaging wise it actually takes more space to fit an SRA than it does an IRS (excpet for maybe where the wheel has to swing through its arc - one of the things people dont realize about IRS is the additional room you can get in interior volume - but we are talking Mustang here, not a true 4 person car)

IMO I would dearly like to see what it costs to configure the car for both since I think having an IRS/SRA capable chassis is a win/win situation.

max2000jp

Again, it's simple economics. If you can produce in quantity the cost per unit will decrease. Having two suspension types makes no sense. Ford needs to commit to one or the other.

jacostang

Yes, Yes Yes!!! The Falcon GT!!!!!!!

mach1fever

the fpv vehicles are amazing

Hollywood_North GT

Simpler solution: STOP EATING SO MUCH FAST FOOD!

Besides, your heart and arteries will thank you for it later.

Hollywood_North GT

There is talk of selling the Camaro in other regions, too. What will kill all these cars, IMO, are new emissions standards mandated by government, largely in response to climate change.

I don't think the core Mustang faithful represent enough of an economic case for keeping Mustang alive. I think the Mustang is relatively cheap to produce and offers a recognized brand (icon) that is a HUGE part of Ford's corporate identity and remains attractive enough that it sells reasonably well across a broad demographic group.

That could very well be, yeah.

Hollywood_North GT

The GTO didn't sell because it was butt ugly; a bloated Cavalier.

Where were the GTO fans when word came that the new GTO was due to arrive? Nary a peep, as I recall.

On the other hand, the enthusiasm among the Camaro and GM faithful is reaching a fever pitch over this new Camaro.

This new Camaro is an entirely different ball game.

GTJOHN

"I don't think the core Mustang faithful represent enough of an economic case for keeping Mustang alive. I think the Mustang is relatively cheap to produce and offers a recognized brand (icon) that is a HUGE part of Ford's corporate identity and remains attractive enough that it sells reasonably well across a broad demographic group."


I think you are partially correct, but the core group of Mustang buyers are "repeat" buyers.
Although the Mustang is an Icon, it has only been recently(2005) that Ford has re-established its identity with the Mustang Brand.
The Mustang has been "milked" for years and improvements to the car were minimal. Fords new found love for the Mustang is the smartest thing they have done in years!

boduke0220

have you ever noticed when we didnt get what we wanted, it was really what was best and somewhat what we really wanted all along, thik about it..if ford had made the gt 320 hp it would cut the sales by a good number because some of us know we cant handle that power and today i saw a 16 year old n a GT 05..i know he owuldnt of had that if it was 320 hp

bob

Wow, I wonder if the kid has been to a proper drving school and not the farce that the government makes you attend via public school. What a bad decsion. Reminds me of a kid I saw with a (at the time) brand new Mach (an even worse car for a young driver to have). Granted, adults aren't immune from doing stupid stuff, but atleast they have expereince on thier side and in the case of males, generally lower levels of testosterone floating around in thier skull short circuiting thier brain/

Boomer

Do you really think the difference between 300 and 320 is going to make someone a worse driver? Why not 325? 333? 334? I don't think so.

The young kids can do stupid things with a 120hp 1.<cough>Litre Civic....that isn't going to change

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most 16 year olds can't afford a Mustang GT, so its probably the parents stupidity that have allowed the kid to drive such a high horsepower machine...bad idea? Absolutely....
And I'm sure the insurance isn't cheap on a car like that either, for someone that young.

boduke0220

never said it would make them a worse driver. all im saying is, if it was 320 hp i sure as **** wouldnt be getting it, and im not even getting the 300hp one. But i think alot of parents are like mine, they want to know what there kids will be driving, thank god my parents arent putting me in a new GT.

Boomer

Ok.. am I in bizzaro world?!?!
You are thanking your parents for NOT putting you in a 300hp GT?
hahaha
Usually its the other way around

Like I said before, regardless of HP, kids will do dumb things.
I do agree though, that 300hp can increase those odds of dumb things.

n8rfastback

as long as there is a played out low performance mustang on the market (cheap entry level) and a hyped up version available (gt or even shelby) they will continue to sell.

its the cheap versions that average people buy that keep the car alive, and the fact that the aftermarket scene is exploding for mustangs

if they can do that with the camaro, they will have a seller. and maybe some long term competition

i dont see it happening, as it takes years to develop this kind of market and selling situation