That sounds good.

Lets see, my new list would be:

2.3 4-cyl. Turbo
3.5 V6
4.6 V8
5.0 V8

 

Something that will keep a GT close to a new LS2 Z28 Camaro or 5.7 Hemi Challenger.

 

Either the Mustang GT or an SE will have to have at least 350-400hp to compete with the competition. So, my guess is a Super Charged 4.6L 4V or 5.4L (Maybe Super Charged). Ford also needs to drop that new 3.5L V6 in the Mustang.

 

I like some of all the idea's for drivetrains but maybe this one the most!!The 3.5 Duratec v6 needs to make 300 h.p. so i can stop hearing the Nissan/Import guys brag that their v-6's outpower Fords v-6 A 4-cylinder in this body style/weight would be almost useless due to the vehicles poundage .

 

Everytime you hear an import guy trash the ford V6 ask hime to quote the price. Most of the V6ers on imports are more than $25K. For that price you could be sitting in a GT. or tack on 3K to a Mustang V6 and you could be looking at a SC'd mad V6.
Heck Nissan?? last is saw the 350 was like $27K ( mind you I haven't paid attention to them recently).

 

How about the Duratec "D50" : a 4-valve, DOHC, 5.0 liter with legitimate variable timing on both intake and exhaust sides, tough but light rotating assembly, high-ish compression ratio, and FSI whatever you want to call direct injection, all tuned to run on 93 octane.

Man that'd be beautiful. Ford could make it the base F-150 engine for the sake of scale production.

It'd be like a Stang version of the S4 motor.

 

forget the 4 banger

 

Yeah, the fewer production lines neccesary, the cheaper the car is across the board (all engine types).

 

Hmmm....

3.5 V6 - 300 hp - All Aluminum 4v DOHC VVT - Base
4.6 V8 - 350 hp - All Aluminum 4v DOHC VVT - GT
5.8 V10 - 450hp - All Aluminum 4v DOHC VVT - SE
5.4 V8 - 550hp - All Aluminum SC DOHC VVT - Top Dog

 

I think the majority of the base engines here are too high HP. I know this sounds crazy on a mustang enthusiast forum, but lets analyze who is buying these cars. The V6 sells to people who want the look, but don't care too much about tons of ponies and don't want to pony up the cash for a V8. Or people who want the cheap insurance, or better gas mileage, or cant handle a V8. Most have been driving regular commuter cars and have no performance car experience. (remember I am not refering to the majority of us on this site, but we are the minority when you consider how many mustangs are sold). Do we really want these people in the rain, in the snow, on ice with 250-300 HP? I say the base engine is probably good where it is with just over 200 ponies, but I think there is room for a HO V6 in the lineup. It could be shared with light trucks to spread the cost. A250 HP HO would be cool, but I still think the best bet for base is 200ish.

 

I would agree, and suggest "keep the Cologne in the base Stang," but the D35 should be in everything. It will rock so hard with direct injection and a turbo. I want to swap one into my Focus, my electric toothbrush, my guitar amp, my ceiling fan...

Ford invested so much in the ways of research funding and manpower in that engine, they should make it the only engine in the 500, Edge, and CX7, the base engine in the new Lincoln and Mercurys, the base engine in the Explorer and 'Stang, an optional engine in the Escape, Ranger and Fusion.

Hell, Ford should have three engines: a D25 four banger, the D35, and my aforeproposed D50 (or D46). All with different tunes and variations depending on application. (And maybe a massive diesel for HD trucks...)

But beyond that, if Ford could simplify its powertrain division into those three main engines, it could really cut costs (in the long run).

Not to mention, Ford would finally be in the forefront of engine technology, NVH, power, refinement, efficiency.

Sure the transition would cost about a bajillon dollars, but people don't want anemic cave-man motors when all the competetive (read, foreign) manufacturers offer DOHC, 4-valve, direct injection, and variable valve timing technologies in even their most basic models. (Maybe not direct injection so much yet, but give Honda four years and it'll be standard in even the Civic.)

 

Well its really all about power to weight. 250 to 300 hp sounds like alot, but consider that the most current mustang chassis is 70 lbs heavier than when it was introduced. Also there is the matter of torque (or the lack there of...) which further dulls the effect of 250 to 300 HP.

However if Ford could advertise the base mustang as having the most standard HP of any sporty 2 door V6 coupe on the market, that could only help it to maintain its king of the pony cars status and may attract buyers from other markets.

<----edit---->
While it is inferior to any AWD vehicle, I can vouch for a V8 mustang fitted with all season high performance tires and traction control (SN95 no less) in snow and ice. Driven with some sense, its not to shabby (okay even driven without some sense, its still not to shabby).

 

Maybe if they tuned in a torque decrease, but as is the D35 makes more than the Cologne (which itself is quite torquey).

 

no matter how you look at it 250-300 HP in a 3000-3500lbs car is a lot for regular commuter drivers that do not have experience with performance.(Remember it was amazing when the 99 V8 came out with 260 HP, that was not that long ago). The current 4.0 has 240 Ft lbs of torque, which is very torquey especially when compaired to other import V6s on the market. Everywhere I look I see the 3.5 duratec stated as 265 HP 250 Torque...I dont see a lack of torque...actually I see quite a bit.

When you are talking entry level base sport coupe, I think it is better to be able to advertise the cheapest V6 coupe on the market. That I can think of right now, the hyundai tiburon is the only V6 that comes close...but I haven't researched that for sure.

Also, Lets remember that everything put into a car has a relative cost. You will not see a 250-300 horsepower V6 in a Mustang for $20,000. To pull that horsepower from a V6 takes a lot of money. That is why the 350 Z is $28,000, We do not want a V6 that costs as much as the present V8.
The Mustang is known for being the average man's muscle car. Lets leave it there and hopefully Ford will introduce HO versions to battle with the more expensive competitors.

 

I agree that as far as marketing is concerned in the sporty coupe segment, it is generally more important to claim lowest base price than biggest hp. But if Ford can claim phenomenal hp and RWD for just a few more bucks, only chicks would choose the 170 hp, FWD Tiburon.

The current 'Stang V6 is ancient, and needs to be discontinued. It's being replaced by the D35. The D35 is superior in every way, and when mass produced, really wont add all that much to the cost of manufacture compared to the Cologne. Why would Ford maintain a Cologne production line, merely to keep the Mustang's V6 low powered? Granted, Bob's 300 hp ambition is about 50 more than the base Mustang should have, but if Ford were to mildly decontent the D35 into a 250 hp, 250 lb/ft torque base 'Stang engine, and could sell it for $21k, that would undercut (and blow away) the Civic Si, GTI, Tibby, and whatever else.

 

No offense, but it is a good thing that you are not a controlling factor in Ford...
Why you may ask???
The majority of mustangs are owned by "Chicks". The number one selling mustang demographic for years has been ladies! We need to remember that we are the MINORITY amoung people buying mustangs. and if we want to get what we want in performance then ford has to get what they want in sales. And data shows that HP isn't a huge deciding force for the average joe buying a car. They want convenience, style, comfort, economy, allbeit zippy, but most people are happy with 200 HP 29MPG.
I am not arguing that I would not like to see a fast V6 that is not front heavy like large V8s. We just have to see the whole marketing gambit and be real about expenses. You WILL NOT see a 250-300HP V6 Mustang for 19-25 grand(present V6 price range). It is not going to happen. It will end up being 24-29K by the time it is all said and done. And just about all of us here say...you might as well pony up another grand or two and go for the all ***** V8.

 

you see the cost of the V6 mustang is not all for the V6 mustang.

Confused...

It costs a fortune to engineer a high output well balanced V8 powered sport coupe. It would be much more then you and I are willing to pay. That is why you do not see many models with a V8 only model. Contrastingly it is much more easy to engineer an mild output semi balanced old technology V6 powered sport coupe. It cost much less then people are willing to spend that is why you see many V6 powered coupes.
What you have is market share. ford measures market share based on the total amount of share that they have. To gain market share the balance the costs of engineering, tooling, etc. over the entire model lineup. So what you end up with is a V6 that is paying for some of the cost encured with the design of the V8. No one here believes that ford can develop a state of the art 4.6 tri-valve V8 with VVT, new beefier tranny, trac-lok and all the extra goodies on a GT for just a few grand more than an archaic 4.0V6 with no special controls and an old tranny and an open diff
Now here is where you run into trouble with the idea of a 250-300HP V6.
If you have a 280 HP V6 it is going to take market share away from the V8 effectively forcing more of the V8 development to be spread to the V6 driving the cost up on the V6. In order for ford to gain back V8 market share they have to beef up the V8 (read More engineering and design), thus driving the GT price higher yet. The next thing you know your in the same boat with camaro and pontiac with $25000 V6 and $33000 V8 and your market share is being outsold by the cheaper less hp competitor 4 to 1.
It is a horrible balancing act, but one that can be accomplished. Ford has done a good job with special editions in the past and I think that is the way to continue. Sell to the masses what they want, but paint the picture and sell to enthusiasts the HO series.

 

Haha, okay you got me with the chicks comment, but that was more of a word choice than logical error.

My real point there was "anyone that would buy a Tibby over the obviously superior Mustang would do so for inane reasons, like cuteness, that can't be helped."

As for the bit about the V6 model mitigating costs for the V8 and blah blah, you're telling me what I already understand.

I'm not saying I want or Ford needs a hi-po V6, I'm saying it wouldn't cost Ford any more to switch to the D35 than it would to maintain a single Cologne production line and all the requisite burdens associated (managing replacement parts, adding yet another engine to the list Ford mechanics must train to work on, etc.), for the sole purpose of making the base 'Stang engine.


Also, you do realize we're talking about the '09 engine line up here, right? The competitors will up their horsepower, (for examples, the Tiburon is rumored to go rear-drive with a far more powerful engine, the GTI just got 20 more horsepower than its predecessor, blah blah blah.) Even the chicks I erringly referenced earlier understand technological improvement.

Furthermore, Ford has already SPENT the money researching and developing the new V6, once Lima and all the other plants are up and running, these D35s will be pumped out at half a million a year. That is WAYYYY more copies than Ford has ever made of the Cologne. At that point, economies of scale play a big part.

As for a pumped up V6 cutting into V8 sales. Well, first, Mustang V8 buyers are Mustang V8 buyers. Second, you act like people would be okay with the V8 stagnating either. It too will have to increase output. Its called competition.


I believe we will see a ~250 hp powered sports coupe for $21k by 2009. I hope its the Mustang V6.

 

I can agree with most opinions so far everyone has a valid point to a degree. The funny thing is around here i see more women driving Gt's/Roush/Saleen's/Steeda's. I have been looking at other manufacturer's V-6 offerings ,power to weight and i feel that a 270-300 h.p. V-6 mustang might not be overkill . Even Hyundai and others are offering high numbers these days .JMo Here's an example 06' Hyundai Azera 3.8 L.-24V-D.O.H.C. V-6, 263 H.P @6000 255 LB/FT @4500

 

Standard.....
Leave them as they are with the engines and trans. Maybe give them a 5 to 10 percent bump.

- V6 4.0L 12V with 210 HP - coupe/conv - 5 speed
- V8 4.6L 24V with 300 HP - GT coupe/conv - 5 speed
- V8 5.4L 32V with 500 HP - GT 500 coupe/conv - 6 speed

Special Edition ....... V6
- This car is like the WCC Shebly project using a V6; instead this one does not use a S/C but a naturally asperated 24V V6 motor, with a 6 speed, and 3.55 gears.
- V6 24V with 260 HP ( move to a 4V motor ) - SE, limited edition coupe - 6 speed ( no auto )
- SC pack - supercharger pack - 24V V6 - 350 HP?

Special Edition ....... Mach 1 Returns
The 2003/4(?) Mach 1s were nice since it had the 32V 4.6L at 305HP. This series mimics the 69/70 line up. These engines would have to be "tuned" to be attractive but a little tame to leave the kings ( GT500/Boss 429 ) alone. These cars would be the ultimate non-shelby cruisers; options, etc etc.

- V8 32V 4.6L - 325 HP - 5 speed/5 speed auto - this would be readly available.
- V8 32V 5.0L - 375 HP - 6 speed ( 5/6 speed auto??) - more limited production
- V8 32V 5.4L - 425 HP - 6 speed only - very limited


Special Edition ....... The return of the Boss
The Boss is a special mustang; stripped down, only the very basics needed for operation ( i suppose it needs AC ). This should really come as one flavor and one flavor only; no options at all. I am guessing at the 429 metric displacement ( 7.0???) - this would be like the Z06 small block 427.

- V8 32V 5.0L HO - 420 HP - Boss 302 - 6 speed - aggressive gears
- V8 32V 5.7L HO - 475 HP - Boss 351 - 6 speed - aggressive gears
- V8 32V 7.0L HO - 525 HP - Boss 429 - 6 speed - aggressive gears

Special Edition ....... Shelby Extras
A non SC version for everyone should be cool. More color stripe combo. Wide tail lights maybe.

- V8 32V 5.4L - 385 HP - GT 350 - 6 speed

anyway ... this is just a dream of mine, maybe when Ford's stock hits above $10 a share....