?s on future 5.0 modular engine
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V6 Member
Joined: January 26, 2008
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From: Hagerstown, MD
?s on future 5.0 modular engine
I know some of this stuff has been mentioned on other threads, but just want to get it all put together and get answers
First of all, is this in any way confirmed info or is it all speculation?
Is this based on current modular engine and if so, is displacement gained through larger bore (ala frpp mod boss 5.0) or a longer stroke (saleen h302)?
If it is large bore would it be made of iron, aluminum or something new?
People say it would be 4v, why, unless vvt is added to dohc it probalby isn't worth it ($$) to put 4v head manufaturing in the large scale if the engine won't be around for that long.( yes gt500 uses 4v but not the #s of trucks and mustangs 3v) So using the 3v with vvt should be just as good, right?
Finally, how much power could we expect from factory in either trim 4v or 3v?
>>>>long time reader(3+years) first time poster<<<<
First of all, is this in any way confirmed info or is it all speculation?
Is this based on current modular engine and if so, is displacement gained through larger bore (ala frpp mod boss 5.0) or a longer stroke (saleen h302)?
If it is large bore would it be made of iron, aluminum or something new?
People say it would be 4v, why, unless vvt is added to dohc it probalby isn't worth it ($$) to put 4v head manufaturing in the large scale if the engine won't be around for that long.( yes gt500 uses 4v but not the #s of trucks and mustangs 3v) So using the 3v with vvt should be just as good, right?
Finally, how much power could we expect from factory in either trim 4v or 3v?
>>>>long time reader(3+years) first time poster<<<<
Mach 1 Member
Joined: March 29, 2007
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There are 2 being tested right now. One based on the 5.4 (codename Coyote) and the other on a 4.6L (codename Bobcat). Sources say it will use a CGI block (Compressed Graphite Iron). It will have VCT, Direct Injection, and maybe cylinder deactivation. No clue as to DOHC or SOHC. Some sources say it will have a slightly smaller bore and slightly longer stroke when compared to Ford Racing's 5.0 Cammer race engine. Most of the info came from BlueII over at BON.
Shelby GT350 Member
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CGI weights almost as much as cast iron. If if the block is made thinner to save weight, NVH becomes a problem. Don't expect to see CGI anytime soon in passenger car engines, unless they'e Diesels.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
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From: Bristol, TN
Hard to get a bigger bore with the AL block, the new Boss Mod block might be pretty close to the next 5.0 Mod motor ( 3.70 x 3.55 ), Could also go 3.65 x 3.65 or 3.60 x 3.75 or there abouts, although 3.70 x 3.55 would do wonders for breathing on the mod motor, IIRC on a 4v engine going to a 3.70 bore gets a 20-30 cfm increase in airflow compared to the 3.55 bore. I imagine a 3v head would do about the same.
It would be real nice if they could get an as-cast port to flow about the same as the FRPP ported heads and combine it with the 3.70" bore, that'd be in the neighborhood of a 50-60 cfm increase in cylinderhead flow over the current 3v head on the 3.55 bore with no real increase in port volume.
It would be real nice if they could get an as-cast port to flow about the same as the FRPP ported heads and combine it with the 3.70" bore, that'd be in the neighborhood of a 50-60 cfm increase in cylinderhead flow over the current 3v head on the 3.55 bore with no real increase in port volume.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
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My understanding is the larger bore mod motor will come from the use of siamesed bores.
Of course Ford has been looking at ways to increase the mod motor bore for 10 years, none of which have made it to real production (Cammer not counted as it's a limited warranty aftermarket crate motor).
Of course Ford has been looking at ways to increase the mod motor bore for 10 years, none of which have made it to real production (Cammer not counted as it's a limited warranty aftermarket crate motor).
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5,206
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From: Bristol, TN
Isn't the 3v AL block siamesed bore now? I thought the cast iron blocks were siamesed bore, but I see they aren't. Then again I like an idea you had awhile ago V10, put the Mod motor on FE bore centers, might make it a bit longer, but you could drop the deck by a good amount to help offset any gain in weight
Shelby GT350 Member
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Isn't the 3v AL block siamesed bore now? I thought the cast iron blocks were siamesed bore, but I see they aren't. Then again I like an idea you had awhile ago V10, put the Mod motor on FE bore centers, might make it a bit longer, but you could drop the deck by a good amount to help offset any gain in weight
It wasn't my idea about the FE bore spacing. Ford has already done this withi the new boss motor. It has 4.54" bore spacing (.090 less than a FE) and the FE / mod type deep skirt block.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: January 29, 2004
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I thought it was too, but the last time we had this discussion on another thread I think the conclusion was the AL block is not.
It wasn't my idea about the FE bore spacing. Ford has already done this withi the new boss motor. It has 4.54" bore spacing (.090 less than a FE) and the FE / mod type deep skirt block.
It wasn't my idea about the FE bore spacing. Ford has already done this withi the new boss motor. It has 4.54" bore spacing (.090 less than a FE) and the FE / mod type deep skirt block.
And for all the talk about cylinder wall thickness issues it appears that the biggest obstacle to a production 'big bore' Mod motor may be the obvious problems with head gasket strength and durability given the small amount of area available between cylinders..
Mach 1 Member
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Here is an update from fourcam.
Major turmoil over at the Ford camp is causing major changes as I'm sure you can imagine.
As of now the 5.0L/4V revised Modular based engines used in the '11 Mustang GT will have direct injection, VVT, revised aluminum blocks with longer sleeves to accomodate the longer stroke, a and 3.6X" bore. Weight reduction is also part of the new Stangs future. Ford is also testing a twin turbo version of the 5.0/4V motor though production is doubtful.
6.2s Boss V8s are now relegated to truck only duty. As for the Boss line of engines, they are 2V/OHC iron block, with plans for an Al version, displacements ranging from 5.8-7.0L, possibly 4V heads, and twin turbo versions are being tested. The Fe block weighs 211 pounds and will definitely be used in the F series. It has 102 mm (4.015") bores on 115 mm spacing. It does NOT have siamese cylinders. It DOES have under piston oil squirters. The main journals are ~ 75 mm diameter and the bulkheads are pretty thick. As for bore/sroke that's approx. 4.015"x3.73" for the 6.2.
As of now the 5.0L/4V revised Modular based engines used in the '11 Mustang GT will have direct injection, VVT, revised aluminum blocks with longer sleeves to accomodate the longer stroke, a and 3.6X" bore. Weight reduction is also part of the new Stangs future. Ford is also testing a twin turbo version of the 5.0/4V motor though production is doubtful.
6.2s Boss V8s are now relegated to truck only duty. As for the Boss line of engines, they are 2V/OHC iron block, with plans for an Al version, displacements ranging from 5.8-7.0L, possibly 4V heads, and twin turbo versions are being tested. The Fe block weighs 211 pounds and will definitely be used in the F series. It has 102 mm (4.015") bores on 115 mm spacing. It does NOT have siamese cylinders. It DOES have under piston oil squirters. The main journals are ~ 75 mm diameter and the bulkheads are pretty thick. As for bore/sroke that's approx. 4.015"x3.73" for the 6.2.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
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Keeping the same deck height reduces manufacturing & tooling costs, but the longer stroke means higher cylinder sidewall loading which increases friction losses and cylinder wall + ring wear.
I've wondered for a long time why Ford didn't make a 5.0L mid deck in between the 4.6 & 5.4.
Whatever Ford does, I just wish they would get of the pot and make a decision. Chrysler designed the new Hemi and put it into production in less time than it takes Ford to make a simple engineering or marketing decision.
Cobra Member
Joined: September 10, 2004
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From: Charlotte NC
From the way 4cam wrote his post the answer sounds like it does not have a taller deck height. If the bore is 3.60" (91.44mm) it would require a 3.74" (95mm) stroke to get 5.0L (305 CID). Of course Ford could call 301.6 CID a 5.0 like they did with the old 5.0 engine. That would be a 3.70" (94mm) stroke.
Keeping the same deck height reduces manufacturing & tooling costs, but the longer stroke means higher cylinder sidewall loading which increases friction losses and cylinder wall + ring wear.
I've wondered for a long time why Ford didn't make a 5.0L mid deck in between the 4.6 & 5.4.
Whatever Ford does, I just wish they would get of the pot and make a decision. Chrysler designed the new Hemi and put it into production in less time than it takes Ford to make a simple engineering or marketing decision.
Keeping the same deck height reduces manufacturing & tooling costs, but the longer stroke means higher cylinder sidewall loading which increases friction losses and cylinder wall + ring wear.
I've wondered for a long time why Ford didn't make a 5.0L mid deck in between the 4.6 & 5.4.
Whatever Ford does, I just wish they would get of the pot and make a decision. Chrysler designed the new Hemi and put it into production in less time than it takes Ford to make a simple engineering or marketing decision.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
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3.65 x 3.65 would make a nice 5.0 engine. With that stroke the deck high could stay the same.
Cobra Member
Joined: September 10, 2004
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From: Charlotte NC
