You can say it all you want, but until you can find some sort of factual information, then I don't think many people will believe it. His concept came out when? I know it was a long time ago because I remember reading the article and seeing the pics waaaay back. Do you really believe the 2010 Mustang design was finalized that long ago? I don't.

 

Prolly I should clarify. The '71-'73 did reflect some European styling influences, a bit of Ghia-like angularity and maybe even trying to imply mid-engine car body volumes like the DeTomaso Mangusta and Pantera. However, it was probably the least European like in overall size and character, having bloated to a leviathen of a sport coupe from the original's rather compact size.

On the other hand, the Mustang II was probably the least European looking, appearing as a kind of junior scale version of the plushed out Torino. While its size and scale were much more in accord with the original Stang, the overall character was kind of the overwrought, cheesy, Disco-Dan approach of those dark days, performance-car wise, of the mid to late seventies.

Then, in very much a counter-reaction, was the '79 FoxStang which essentially retained to trimmer scale of the Mustang II but traded a clean, taut, more engineered look for the fluffy flamboyance of the II -- and started reintroducing a focus on real rather than pretend performance.

 

The Pantera came out in late 1971; so its designer, Tom Tjaarda may have know about the 1968 design study for the 1971 Ford Mustang or visa versa. Not sure but I think it was "Bunkie" Knudsen whom worked on it.

More importantly - the 2010 IMO has European styling concepts blended with Mustang lines regardless of when Giugiaro made his. Don't you think Ford designers look somewhat at his coupe to influence their own and visa versa- of course.

 

Actually, the refresh was scheduled for 2009 not 2010. That would put the original refresh at late 2008 release. Because of comp from GM and Chrysler as well as the cancelling of the 5.8L for the Mustang, the refresh was pushed back. So it was really supposed to be just 2 years.

 

Where do you come up with this stuff? You say things like you have some kind of inside knowledge. How do you know why the new body style was pushed back? I get the feeling that you like to turn your opinion into some sort of pseudo fact.

Besides, using your own logic, even if it was a late 2008 release, the current body style was not just around for three years ('05 - '08), but probably more like since '02 when it MUST have been finalized.

My point is simply that it's not like the old days when a new car design was 3+ years in the making. There was an excellent show on the Discovery Channel not long ago where they covered the ins and outs of designing a new car and illustrated how CAD has cut the design/production time for the development of a new car in less than half the time it used to take.

 

Steven, as for the 2010 refresh goes. Super Suge, is correct. The S-197 refresh was originally set for the 2009 model year, however when Mark Fields discovered that Dodge was resurrecting the Challenger for 2008 along with Chevy bringing it's Camaro back in 09. Fields then made the decision to push the refresh behind a year, for he didn't want just a minor facelift for the Mustang. But he also wanted a more aggressive restyle, in order to compete with both the Challenger and Camaro more effectively.

 

I know all about how the '09 was supposed to be the "new" Mustang. I'm just questioning how anyone could possibly know for a fact when the styling was finalized. It's nothing more than guesses as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

The ORIGINAL Italian Mustang By Bertone

1965 Ford Mustang by Bertone (Giugiaro). The Senior Giugiaro created the 1965 Bertone Mustang. The car, which was unmistakably Italian in its interpretation, became the first European-styled car to make its international debut in America following the end of World War II.



This was Giugiaro, and Bertone's Reinterpretation of the 64 1/2 Mustang in a More European Style..

 

My friend works in the design department at Ford. He says they began the 2010 Mustang in May 2005, and yes they used CAD, but the design was still sculpted in clay. There is a development schedule that Ford sets up for each car, and there are different dates where you have to "lock in" in the design and you're not allowed to change it. The final design was chosen by Design VP Jay Mays in October 2005, according to the timeline given to the designers by Ford. After this "freeze" the designers weren't allowed to change anything more than 15 millimeters in any direction!!!!!

Over the next two years the designers worked with the engineers not only to get the shape that was in the clay model, but also to make sure the technology like LED tailights and quality of parts fitting together was top notch ( no pun intended, TN ). Each time the engineers wanted to change something that made the design look bad, the designers would need to go into heated meetings and argue and fight for the $, time, or just plain old just figure out how to do it. He says it's like going to court every week to argue for your life.

In any case, to your original point about the Giugiaro vs. the 2010, he checked with the design team yet again- and here is the final verdict:

The 2010 design was frozen in October 2005. Then Giugiaro was brought in to look at it and did the Giugiaro Mustang concept based off the 2010 design. It was first shown publicly in 2006. There was no discussions or suggestions or contact between Giugario and the 2010 design team. He says they met briefly in a conference room only after Giugiaro had done the car and brought in pictures to show them. By this time, the engineering development of the 2010 design was already underway.

Right now, he says he's working on a 2013 car to be introduced in 2012, and they need to finalize the design by next March. And no, its not a Mustang, wouldn't say what it was.

So if you look at the fact that the 2010 was really introduced in November 2008, and the design was frozen in October 2005, that gives you 3 years of engineering and testing, which sounds about right for the industry these days. Same amount of time it takes anyone else. I have another friend who works @ Toyota- same timeline.

 

Tom Tjaarda worked for Ghia in the late 1960s/70s. It was the Italian design firm that did cars for many European cars. Ford bought Ghia in 1970, so Tom Tjaarda then had access to what Ford was doing for their future cars ( i.e. 1971-73 Mustang ). Bunkie Knudsen was the Mark Fields of his day- nothing do with the design of the Mustang, just approving the business part of it.
http://www.tom-tjaarda.net/

But yes, there is usually a "movement" where there is some similarity to what designers in any field think is new and cool. Think the tailfins of the 1950s. It happens in fashion design, interior design, etc etc. Look at how so many cars had wheel flares after the Audi TT came out in 2001. Then now everyone started doing the sculpture "flame surfacing" BMW started, which has been picked up by everyone from Nissan to Audi to Ford. There are always influences that cross, in the Mustang's case, you also have historical influences ( what the designers call DNA ).

As for any collaboration between Giugario and the 2010 design team- didn't happen. See my other post. Cars were done at different times.

 

Good post up until that point. Then you lost credibility with me. You not only have a friend who works in the design dept. for Ford, but you also have a friend who works in the design dept. for Toyota? Wow, what a coincidence.

BTW, my cousin works for Toyota (senior level management) and he's explained the entire process from beginning to end for Toyota to bring a new car to market. And it is NOT the same thing at all as you say. If you don't believe me, then you can do some research on the subject, as Toyota is known for their efficiency and methodology in design and manufacturing. There are many books written on that very subject.

 

You could say it's daytime and Even Steven would argue. Don't waste your time. He's a friggin' troll.

 

I Agree 100% I Will Not Respond To Another Single Post He Makes, as You Put It, He Is A TROLL!

 

I heard the 2010 was first designed using paper mache. This is were the rear end was messed up as all they had left to design the rear was the comic section. This is why the rear is so **** laughable.

 

Shawn, I'm not posting to take sides here, but IMO. Steven is just being passionate about his views, and nothing more. So I really don't understand how this would make him such a troll

 

Of course you won't.... because I proved you wrong and you're trying to save face. Absolutely pathetic.

 

He's just upset that I called him out and proved him wrong. If that's what it takes to be labeled a troll around here, I'll proudly wear that badge!

It's funny when people get upset to the point that they resort to calling someone a troll. I'm as big of a Mustang fan as anyone around here. You don't see me getting upset and calling him a troll because I don't agree with his views. That's the difference...

 

I Know I Said I Wouldn't Respond To You Again But You Asked For It Steven. You Proved NOTHING! The Only Thing You Proved Was You Could Get A Lot Of Good and Valid Posts Deleted Because You are a Child, and a TROLL!

 

I just wish there were something I could do in bringing you guys together. Because we all share the same passion for the Mustang. About the only difference I've noticed, is how those passions are interpreted. But other than that, we still all share the same common bond. Which is really what should matter more than anything else.


That being said, I hope you can both work things out




-Rocky