Motor Trend Responses
11/9/08, 08:20 AM
#62
Cobra R Member
Join Date: September 26, 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand where your coming from Phil, however when I made the statement about GM declaring bankruptcy. I wasn't referring to GM going out of business, what I meant was. That perhaps GM would far benefit from starting over, by bringing in all new management that are better capable of running GM in today's global economy.
As for Cars like the Corvette, Cobalt SS, G8 and CTS-V are concerned. Of course they're all very nice cars, but now that Camaro is back. GM is not only competing with Ford and Chrysler, but is also competing within itself as well. In other words, all of GM's performance cars, seem to be competing against one another. Such as Camaro vs. Corvette, G8 vs. CTS-V, Cobalt SS vs. G6, and Pontiac Solstice vs. Saturn Sky.
As a matter of fact, part of the reason for the demise of the F-body Camaro and Firebird, was due to the fact, they were competing against both Ford, and themselves.
On the other hand, being that Mustang is Ford's only performance car. This is a huge reason as to why Mustang has endured for well over 40+ years. And for those who want more performance, they can select from either the base GT, Bullitt, Shelby GT, GT500, or GT500KR models.
IMO this is a very smart move on Ford's part indeed, in which there hasn't been any competition within itself, whatsoever.
In the meantime, my apologies for sending the wrong signals. For that wasn't my intention.
As for Cars like the Corvette, Cobalt SS, G8 and CTS-V are concerned. Of course they're all very nice cars, but now that Camaro is back. GM is not only competing with Ford and Chrysler, but is also competing within itself as well. In other words, all of GM's performance cars, seem to be competing against one another. Such as Camaro vs. Corvette, G8 vs. CTS-V, Cobalt SS vs. G6, and Pontiac Solstice vs. Saturn Sky.
As a matter of fact, part of the reason for the demise of the F-body Camaro and Firebird, was due to the fact, they were competing against both Ford, and themselves.
On the other hand, being that Mustang is Ford's only performance car. This is a huge reason as to why Mustang has endured for well over 40+ years. And for those who want more performance, they can select from either the base GT, Bullitt, Shelby GT, GT500, or GT500KR models.
IMO this is a very smart move on Ford's part indeed, in which there hasn't been any competition within itself, whatsoever.
In the meantime, my apologies for sending the wrong signals. For that wasn't my intention.
I also understand that GM has cars that compete with one another but so doesn't Ford. Does Mercury have one model that isn't a Ford with a different grille? I feel GM should be given credit for making chassis twins looks more unique from one another. I understand Ford's model just pretty much to keep to one major performance platform, but I think it's always good to have choice. For better or worse GM is going to add more features to the Vette to raise the base price so it won't directly compete with a Camaro. I think the 09' model already rose $5000 from the 08' model.
Though I agree the Camaro will have some overlap with the Corvette, it is still a very different car. Many Camaro buyers want a car with a backseat, and the ride and feel of a muscle car. Though I love the Corvette it is marketed more to the true sports car type. I do agree that the Camaro will be doomed in a couple years along with the Challenger but the Mustang has also got some tough times ahead of it. Do you think that the Mustang competed directly with the Corvette? I agree fully topped out SS Camaros may compete with the Vette but a base SS is about $31k while the Corvette starts at over $50,000! The only cars that will really compete with the Vette are GT500s, SRT8 Challengers and perhaps a fully loaded Camaro which I think will still be the cheapest of the three.
11/9/08, 06:31 PM
#63
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
No need to apologize, I just misunderstood your post. Though we still have differing opinions for GM's recent failures. I think GM's problems has been mostly focused on the terrible shape the whole industry. GM bringing forth several new products that should turn the company in the right direction but people are not buying. In recent years GM has brought forth the new Malibu, like the Ford Fusion it is a true competitor in the mid-size segment. Keep in mind that the Chevy Volt could become the most fuel efficient car in the world when it comes out in 10'. Look at how much Toyota is struggling this quarter, this isn't because of their image it's because nobody is buying new cars.
I also understand that GM has cars that compete with one another but so doesn't Ford. Does Mercury have one model that isn't a Ford with a different grille? I feel GM should be given credit for making chassis twins looks more unique from one another. I understand Ford's model just pretty much to keep to one major performance platform, but I think it's always good to have choice. For better or worse GM is going to add more features to the Vette to raise the base price so it won't directly compete with a Camaro. I think the 09' model already rose $5000 from the 08' model.
Though I agree the Camaro will have some overlap with the Corvette, it is still a very different car. Many Camaro buyers want a car with a backseat, and the ride and feel of a muscle car. Though I love the Corvette it is marketed more to the true sports car type. I do agree that the Camaro will be doomed in a couple years along with the Challenger but the Mustang has also got some tough times ahead of it. Do you think that the Mustang competed directly with the Corvette? I agree fully topped out SS Camaros may compete with the Vette but a base SS is about $31k while the Corvette starts at over $50,000! The only cars that will really compete with the Vette are GT500s, SRT8 Challengers and perhaps a fully loaded Camaro which I think will still be the cheapest of the three.
I also understand that GM has cars that compete with one another but so doesn't Ford. Does Mercury have one model that isn't a Ford with a different grille? I feel GM should be given credit for making chassis twins looks more unique from one another. I understand Ford's model just pretty much to keep to one major performance platform, but I think it's always good to have choice. For better or worse GM is going to add more features to the Vette to raise the base price so it won't directly compete with a Camaro. I think the 09' model already rose $5000 from the 08' model.
Though I agree the Camaro will have some overlap with the Corvette, it is still a very different car. Many Camaro buyers want a car with a backseat, and the ride and feel of a muscle car. Though I love the Corvette it is marketed more to the true sports car type. I do agree that the Camaro will be doomed in a couple years along with the Challenger but the Mustang has also got some tough times ahead of it. Do you think that the Mustang competed directly with the Corvette? I agree fully topped out SS Camaros may compete with the Vette but a base SS is about $31k while the Corvette starts at over $50,000! The only cars that will really compete with the Vette are GT500s, SRT8 Challengers and perhaps a fully loaded Camaro which I think will still be the cheapest of the three.
On the other hand, it's one thing to have choice, however when your main objective is to compete directly with your competition. The last thing you want, is to also compete against one another. Otherwise your sort of defeating what you set out to accomplish to begin with. And once again, IMO this was also a contributing factor behind the demise of the F-bodies.
Which is why I fully support Ford's philosophy behind keeping just one major performance platform, and for those who want variety. Once again, they can choose from the base Mustang V-6, or GT, Bullitt, Shelby GT, GT500, GT500KR, and top dog Super Snake models.
As for the Chevy Volt, becoming the most fuel efficient car in the world ? That's very possible indeed, however the real question is this. Will the average Joe, be able to afford the price tag !
11/10/08, 09:06 AM
#64
Cobra R Member
Join Date: September 26, 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I fully agree that Ford and Mercury do compete with one another. And if you want my personal opinion, Ford should just kill the Mercury brand altogether. As like you said, Mercury's are really nothing more than just re-badged Fords anyhow.
On the other hand, it's one thing to have choice, however when your main objective is to compete directly with your competition. The last thing you want, is to also compete against one another. Otherwise your sort of defeating what you set out to accomplish to begin with. And once again, IMO this was also a contributing factor behind the demise of the F-bodies.
Which is why I fully support Ford's philosophy behind keeping just one major performance platform, and for those who want variety. Once again, they can choose from the base Mustang V-6, or GT, Bullitt, Shelby GT, GT500, GT500KR, and top dog Super Snake models.
As for the Chevy Volt, becoming the most fuel efficient car in the world ? That's very possible indeed, however the real question is this. Will the average Joe, be able to afford the price tag !
On the other hand, it's one thing to have choice, however when your main objective is to compete directly with your competition. The last thing you want, is to also compete against one another. Otherwise your sort of defeating what you set out to accomplish to begin with. And once again, IMO this was also a contributing factor behind the demise of the F-bodies.
Which is why I fully support Ford's philosophy behind keeping just one major performance platform, and for those who want variety. Once again, they can choose from the base Mustang V-6, or GT, Bullitt, Shelby GT, GT500, GT500KR, and top dog Super Snake models.
As for the Chevy Volt, becoming the most fuel efficient car in the world ? That's very possible indeed, however the real question is this. Will the average Joe, be able to afford the price tag !
Rumors have the Volt ranging anywhere between 25-35k. Sure it is a bit more than the Prius, but I like the fact that an American company is the first to make this type of hybrid and hopefully the tech can get cheaper and trickle across the entire lineup.
I understand cars competing with one another but do you think the Corvette will really compete with the Camaro? At first I thought it might too until I saw how big of a gap there is between price. I agree a top end 7.0 powered Camaro would be foolish to produce unless it was kept in very small numbers. Though for many paying 40-50k for a muscle car that can't perform with the Vette may be foolish, others like myself included with current GT500 buyers chose the Shelby despite the fact that it is an equally expensive car that doesn't perform as well.
All I can say is that the next 5 years should be very interesting in the automotive industry. I just hope Ford puts out the 5.0 before they have to cancel it like the other makes have been doing with future products.
11/10/08, 08:16 PM
#65
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
At just 25-35k for such a hybrid. GM would surely have a huge hit with customers looking for this type of vehicle.
I understand cars competing with one another but do you think the Corvette will really compete with the Camaro? At first I thought it might too until I saw how big of a gap there is between price. I agree a top end 7.0 powered Camaro would be foolish to produce unless it was kept in very small numbers. Though for many paying 40-50k for a muscle car that can't perform with the Vette may be foolish, others like myself included with current GT500 buyers chose the Shelby despite the fact that it is an equally expensive car that doesn't perform as well.
If a top end 7.0 Camaro Z-28 were to come out, then yes. It would be foolish to produce, as such a car would definitely be competing against the Corvette for sure, especially as a limited production model. As those with much higher disposable incomes, would be standing in line just waiting to get they're hands on them, before they all sell out. Thus hurting Corvette sales, at least temporairily.
Other than that, I really don't see the Camaro SS, as competing directly against the Corvette. But should GM decide to bring the Firebird/Trans Am back ? Then I'm afraid to say, it'll be DejaVu all over again, as in disasterous.
That makes 2 of us.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 11/10/08 at 08:20 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post